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Quick update- It’s out! Three days of heat cycles, penetrant, tapping, and rocking back and fourth finally did the trick. Thanks again to all that offered such great advice.

I still do. Tells you something about me.

The engine starting when you release the key is a signal of a failing left magneto. During engine start, the right mag is grounded, as only the left mag has a set of retarded points used at startup; letting go of the key activates the right magneto and the engine may start then. My left mag died in the air, and after landing neither love nor money would make it start again; not even my enhanced vocabulary made it run.

Here's my sunset pic passing Chattanooga Tuesday night. I didn't realize it when I took the pic but the aileron trailing edge is reflecting the sunlight. Kinda cool, looks like I have LED edge lighting.

Yeah. That was me. Dead sticked it from FL210 through the clouds, icing, in the mountains, and broke out at 1500 agl. All I had was this road so I put her in nicely. There happened to be a bit of water from the left tank (just switched tanks). The water went into the fuel flow divider and froze. -36 C OAT. When the water froze, it expanded and shut the flow of fuel to all cylinders. No possibility for restart. I let the plane sit for three hours as I dealt with the local sheriff department (who were excellent btw). Fired her up. Run up was perfect so I flew it outta there. lol. Another day in the office. I’m now working g with the FAA, continental, and another shop to remedy this issue.

Hahaha! Funny you say that. I fly and maintain an A26 here in Seattle called Sexy Sue. For sure I was whistling! LOL

Depending on access.... I have had a lot of luck using a torch or heat gun depending on the surface sensitivity, and then ice or dry ice on the fitting itself. If the fitting is pointed down you can super cool some water by filling a cup with ice, put a tablespoon of salt in and then fill the rest with water and stir it up. Then just put the cup on the fitting. Keep heating the outside surface while you keep the fitting cold and then quickly try and remove the fitting with a good tool that has a good grip on the fitting. Dry ice is easier to get into strange places though because its not constantly making everything wet.

No, but I have tools I got in 1955

Nickson’s machine shop, which rebuilds cases. Told me they have a guy that can get any fitting loose. It might be worth a call. Talk to Rudy.

I’m not a fan of alcohol. Seems like a bandaid. I’ve been flying this plane for 10 years. Did the northern crossing over and back, FL 250, and in icing. Never had a problem. I want to see the fuel heated somehow prior to delivery to the fuel flow divider. Or at the fuel flow divider. The spider sits above the engine. And isn’t heated like the engine is. It’s in the cold airflow and only a small amount of water will mess your day up. That would be a permanent fix and you wouldn’t need to dink around with ratios and math problems (sounds like a quick way for human error to say hello). The other thing that happened was the alt air light on the annunciator came on. Meaning the airfilter was clogged (with ice). And then my gauges went black. I had multiple problems at the same time. Could have done without that. on another note …Happy Thanksgiving. I have a lot to be thankful for today.

Yeah Ethan, great question. Emergency situation not much time. I wanted to go to enterprise. It was on the rum line and had a good tail wind. Pretty sure I could have dead sticked that runway no worries. Seattle Center advised not going to those airports as they were IMC and higher terrain. La grande was 90 degrees off my right wing and right into a headwind. It was a tough call, but I figured I could drop in the valley and find something suitable. So I turned for La grande. I’m my own worst critic. The one thing I didn’t do is declare an emergency. I told Seattle center that I had “loss of engine power and could not maintain FL210”. The controller and I ended up arguing a bit over a few details on the way down and it just made things mores stressful. And at 8000 feet he said the frightful words “radar contact lost”. I said out loud, “Brad, do some of that pilot shit!” Lol. I followed a canyon on the terrain page of the MFD and prayed to God that I’d break out. And He graciously gave me 1500 ft. And a dirt road with power lines and an eagles nest. Good enough for me.

I use this link, which I stumbled across somewhere. Originally, it only showed M20P (normally aspirated models), but I tweaked on it and got it to show M20T models as well. https://www.flightaware.com/live/flex_bigmap.rvt?search=-type M20*&time=1624722420&key=1f8bf9a5abbb6070c6f84fc8d4d1ff26eb3e2a08&title=Mooney M-20 (piston-single) (M20) ✈ Aircraft Type

Pre-emptive.

Were you whistling the tune from Always like Richard Dreyfus? Lol. Glad you and plane are unscathed. Pretty sweet airmanship sir.

Drifting away from trying to help this gentleman get his C started, here's an interesting story regarding the Slick Start Booster on my Mooney [previously installed by others]. I installed mags on my D/C model after 500 hour inspection. Engine would not start until I'd release the START motion [limped into starting] Checked and re-checked all installation over and over and over, thinking I'd done something incorrectly........ wiring, timing, etc. All appeared correct........hmmm! I discovered in start position, there remained a left mag P lead grounding with the P lead disconnected from the mag...............WHAT?? Eventually, hours later, I discovered that during the Slick unit installation/modification, certain wires are to be removed from the ignition switch. One wire had not been removed from the switch during the modification. That wire had been left in the aircraft wiring bundle and coincidentally began picking up a ground which was grounding the left mag P lead during the start procedure ! I disconnected the wire from the switch, taped it up and all was well again.

I asked Don Maxwell about that trim around the stabilizer and the boarding step. Don said that it is possible to wiggle the new stuff in there. It’s not a simple job, but it is possible.

I’m guessing the SoS box is on the cockpit side of the firewall. Pull the top cowl and inspect the wiring from the left mag back to the firewall. If there’s a bad wire, it’s probably on the engine side. The P-lead wire is probably shielded (unless it’s been replaced with shielded wire under the insulation). If that looks ok, then pull the avionics access and inspect that wiring from the SoS box to the firewall. If still no smoking gun, depending on your level of mx ability, remove a plug lead from a plug on the left mag and install a plug in it. Ground the plug to the engine and have someone energize the SoS. DON’T ENGAGE THE STARTER! And, don’t get shocked. I removed my SoS years ago, and never had to troubleshoot it, so I don’t remember if it buzzes that means for certain it’s making spark. There’s an SoS troubleshooting guide, probably in the downloads section. I still have my SoS box, in case you need one.

In addition to Hank’s information, a faulty ignition switch could be applying a ground on the left magneto P lead wire during the starting phase. Or possibly a bare wire point along the left magneto P lead wire path from the ignition switch to the left magneto could be picking up a ground too.

should be in the row of white rocker switches above the VOR/ILS indicators, think it's the one in the center. I just leave it on all the time so I can see if the master switch is off when I leave the airplane. Pic below if from a 1970 (not mine), but think the stock panel layout is the same in the 1969 models.

I don’t think anybody calls it that any more….

Well that kills that idea, but I like the idea of adapting the GTSO-520 heated spider. Still think there needs to be some work on the under floor plumbing heat wise however.

A couple of things. Slick nick it’s a recently overhauled engine by Victor Aviation. Firewall forward brand new including the ignition harness. Have about 120 hours on it and the engine runs oh so good. 4 blade MT prop. Also super smooth. But a new engine prop combo. I fly all kinds of stuff. And I understand jets and oil/fuel heaters etc. I think this airplane needs that. Working on a heated fuel flow divider. Cessna 421s have it. Gonna get it STCd for this plane. It can be an option/mod. Knowledgeable opinions (above my pay grade) suggest that the water stayed liquid, suspended in the fuel, (call it supercooled water droplets) until the fuel flow divider. What’s that song? That’s my story and I’m sticking to it….

Fair enough point. What about the intangibles such as spacing yourself during vfr, maybe you are trying to pick up a clearance, or steering around airspace. Knowing where to look for traffic, if for nothing but to avoid having a concern. What happens in those moments of distraction? It isn’t simply to avoid running in to each other, is it?

Check for PM. Also, info about his memorial service is posted on Smokehouse Pilots FB group, in case you or others might be interested. Seuk was a friend, in fact a couple of weeks ago we flew together when he gave me a lift in his M20J to pick up my M20E from maintenance.

For what ever it’s worth the 777 that had the dual engine roll back, the ice clogged the entrance to the fuel heater, very common with turbines for the fuel to be used to cool the oil, this also has the function of heating the fuel before it gets to the fuel control. The ice built up in the fuel lines and assumption is when fuel flow went up and maybe with higher temps, the ice came off of the lines all at once and blocked the oil cooler / fuel heater. Rolls fix was to make some tubes longer so it would take a stupid amount of ice to block both the short and long tubes. Point is that sometimes the fix is more involved and harder than we would think, but before you can fix something you need to be real sure of the complete problem, which is very difficult with ice as the evidence pretty quickly disappears. I agree alcohol is not really a fix, it’s a band aid, but until there is a fix I would apply the band aid myself. I think possibly the fix is what the Army did decades ago, measure the entrained I think it’s called water and if it’s above some number, remove it before the fuel is dispensed. Think that could happen at the self serve fuel pumps?

Hitting the west coast of Michigan at 15k. For anyone familiar with the area, Silver lake and the Silver lake sand dunes are clearly visible!! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Exactly. The regs, the case law, precedent are nothing but a giant contradiction that you can weave an explanation out of 6 ways from Sunday just like what’s going on here. Rosen sun visors. Hahahaha. Exactly. The regs give us enough leeway to keep our airplanes flying. It’s the arm chair pontificators that keep them grounded. If a sound argument can be made, we should normalize that flexibility instead of self imposing it to be taboo. Still waiting on someone to show me a single example of someone being enforced upon that made sound judgement with fair regulatory citation. Even the idiot David Jewell who pencil whips engine overhauls isn’t being enforced upon and he’s an EGREGIOUS example of taking the loosest possible interpretation of the regs. He built me a motor, handed it back to me with a log entry that said OVERHAULED. no tags, no part list, no inspection reports, no receipts, no 8130s, no nothing whatsoever. “Over-fn-hauled. Sincerely, David Jewell”. So, there are professionals doing extremely idiotic things on a regular basis, you couldn’t beg the FAA to do anything about, and here we are wondering if it’ll be OK to use a new switch or should we use a piece of junk switch out of a wrecked airplane not knowing if it’s ok or not. It’s crazy.

Overhaul - 20 weeks. ;-/. But at least I timed it to be down largely during the winter. Penn Yan. Btw I have little faith in factory cylinders so I’m going with superior cylinders and a superior camshaft too.

Forgot one more thing, GO Green Bay!

Are you going with new or overhaul? what is the lead time?

Well... I like mine - a lot. Enough that I'm doing a new engine at just shy of 2200hrs now into 12 years of ownership.

I’ve been to Cutter at KCOS and thought they were great.

If you can’t get anywhere with ignition, my next suspect would be a sticking exh valve. Having said that high manifold pressures do require higher voltage to fire and very often a weak ignition works fine until manifold pressure is high then it begins to miss.

There is always something faster, but the extra 100 hp is a pretty big boost.

A good (well-fitting) crow's foot on a breaker bar with a cheater pipe. That let's you apply a lot of steady torque and still feel it yield. Assuming there's space to do that, anyway.

If I understand your dealing with a pipe fitting so penetrating oil, won’t. Heat as in heat gun not torch has been my best thing to try, stupid as it sounds but slightly tightening sometimes works but I don’t know why but working it tightening then loosening when it’s hot may help.

My IA swears that for stuck parts where nothing else works he uses a 50-50 mix of Stoddard solvent and Dexron ATF and lets it soak overnight.

Did you see a broom fly by? Sounds like you were hit with a curse... What with the weird display issues and all. Very interesting stuff, ty again for sharing. Will be interesting to see what else can be gleaned.

How is changing a switch of one part number for another part number a major change in type design? And also aren’t we allowed to substitute parts and materials for vintage aircraft? (all mooneys are vintage aircraft) I mean they have to be equal or better right but I can’t see how any of this is major.

Yup. I get that sense from our local IA seminars, where probably half of the presenters are from FAA offices of one type or another, including the FSDO, and you can get two different opinions in two different seminars from different presenters. One was being adamant about STCs always requiring 337s because they're always major alterations. Somebody asked about "what if it is isn't a major alteration?" and the response was that if it wasn't a major alteration it wouldn't need an STC. So I asked about Rosen visors being a major alteration, and suddenly everything got very handwavy and he never answered the question. At one session there were a bunch of guys from the FSDO and they kept calling on each to answer questions because they knew who had worked a particular area, etc. Somebody asked about whether ADs apply to experimental aircraft, and it got very quiet, and then they told on themselves that there really is not agreement about that. I attended a FAASTeam meeting last week where they were opining that since a condition inspection is essentially a safety inspection and ADs are safety related it'd be difficult to justify signing off a condition inspection without compliance to ADs. So, yeah. I just take the position that if I'm comfortable standing in front of a judge explaining why I did something, that that's about as good as I can do.

Garmin engineers have supposedly been looking for over a year at an issue I sent them (with a lot of data) where the G3X does not display all TFRs that are active and displayed on my GTN. Both the GTN and G3X receive ADS-B IN from the GTX 345. I suspect it is related to an earlier problem where multi-day TFRs were only displayed on the first day on the GTN which required software updates for the GTX and GTN.

AVGAS additive for low temperature operations = IPA. See POH and https://mooneyspace.com/topic/35373-ipa-winter-ops/ Matthias

The reason the Mooney has the push to start is so that you can engage the shower of sparks without engaging the electric starter. Without that feature, you would not be able to hand prop the engine.

Awesome report! A forced landing you can walk away from awesome...one you can fly away from is even more incredible!

Ouch. Glad you and your airplane are OK! That's a little sporting, coming down through IMC. That part of OR has lots of flat areas, at least. Tight quarters, so nice job. This is reminding me of the conversations a while back about adding alcohol to the tanks in the winter. I've got an Acclaim in MT, so a good reminder to me. Looks like an MT prop? David

No one ever really gets to that number… I paid more than I should have, but timing was a factor, and most of the big ticket neglected items would have been changed anyway. I knew I was going to get a project for this one, so I’m not going to let this spoil my joy. I would have preferred the seller to be a good guy, but he turned out to be kind of a jerk, which makes the transaction less happy than one would hope. He promised to tank it up for me, I got there and it was less than half full, so he called the FBO and topped off. Then after we closed he said he changed his mind and it was “my problem to pay the FBO”. it wasn’t the $400 that upset me, it was just a crappy move. Oh well, I only had to see him for a few hours, but tomorrow he wakes up and he is still him…. Other than that, I’m very happy to be back in a Mooney, and I’m looking forward to making it better than new.

You people that fly at night a lot definitely get some cool views. I very, very rarely fly at night, so those cool photo ops rarely happen for me. This sunrise headed toward Tucson from Phoenix did happen, though, which was nice. Not a Mooney, but was still cool.

Another update: avionics work is in full swing, got slightly delayed by panel design/proof/finalize work but here it is: and a test fit of switches - love the attention to wiring:

Well, I lack self Discipline then!!!...... An I love it.