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Quick update- It’s out! Three days of heat cycles, penetrant, tapping, and rocking back and fourth finally did the trick. Thanks again to all that offered such great advice.

I still do. Tells you something about me.

The engine starting when you release the key is a signal of a failing left magneto. During engine start, the right mag is grounded, as only the left mag has a set of retarded points used at startup; letting go of the key activates the right magneto and the engine may start then. My left mag died in the air, and after landing neither love nor money would make it start again; not even my enhanced vocabulary made it run.

Here's my sunset pic passing Chattanooga Tuesday night. I didn't realize it when I took the pic but the aileron trailing edge is reflecting the sunlight. Kinda cool, looks like I have LED edge lighting.

Yeah. That was me. Dead sticked it from FL210 through the clouds, icing, in the mountains, and broke out at 1500 agl. All I had was this road so I put her in nicely. There happened to be a bit of water from the left tank (just switched tanks). The water went into the fuel flow divider and froze. -36 C OAT. When the water froze, it expanded and shut the flow of fuel to all cylinders. No possibility for restart. I let the plane sit for three hours as I dealt with the local sheriff department (who were excellent btw). Fired her up. Run up was perfect so I flew it outta there. lol. Another day in the office. I’m now working g with the FAA, continental, and another shop to remedy this issue.

Hahaha! Funny you say that. I fly and maintain an A26 here in Seattle called Sexy Sue. For sure I was whistling! LOL

Depending on access.... I have had a lot of luck using a torch or heat gun depending on the surface sensitivity, and then ice or dry ice on the fitting itself. If the fitting is pointed down you can super cool some water by filling a cup with ice, put a tablespoon of salt in and then fill the rest with water and stir it up. Then just put the cup on the fitting. Keep heating the outside surface while you keep the fitting cold and then quickly try and remove the fitting with a good tool that has a good grip on the fitting. Dry ice is easier to get into strange places though because its not constantly making everything wet.

No, but I have tools I got in 1955

Nickson’s machine shop, which rebuilds cases. Told me they have a guy that can get any fitting loose. It might be worth a call. Talk to Rudy.

I’m not a fan of alcohol. Seems like a bandaid. I’ve been flying this plane for 10 years. Did the northern crossing over and back, FL 250, and in icing. Never had a problem. I want to see the fuel heated somehow prior to delivery to the fuel flow divider. Or at the fuel flow divider. The spider sits above the engine. And isn’t heated like the engine is. It’s in the cold airflow and only a small amount of water will mess your day up. That would be a permanent fix and you wouldn’t need to dink around with ratios and math problems (sounds like a quick way for human error to say hello). The other thing that happened was the alt air light on the annunciator came on. Meaning the airfilter was clogged (with ice). And then my gauges went black. I had multiple problems at the same time. Could have done without that. on another note …Happy Thanksgiving. I have a lot to be thankful for today.

Yeah Ethan, great question. Emergency situation not much time. I wanted to go to enterprise. It was on the rum line and had a good tail wind. Pretty sure I could have dead sticked that runway no worries. Seattle Center advised not going to those airports as they were IMC and higher terrain. La grande was 90 degrees off my right wing and right into a headwind. It was a tough call, but I figured I could drop in the valley and find something suitable. So I turned for La grande. I’m my own worst critic. The one thing I didn’t do is declare an emergency. I told Seattle center that I had “loss of engine power and could not maintain FL210”. The controller and I ended up arguing a bit over a few details on the way down and it just made things mores stressful. And at 8000 feet he said the frightful words “radar contact lost”. I said out loud, “Brad, do some of that pilot shit!” Lol. I followed a canyon on the terrain page of the MFD and prayed to God that I’d break out. And He graciously gave me 1500 ft. And a dirt road with power lines and an eagles nest. Good enough for me.

Introducing, just back from a full strip and paint, the best looking Mooney in the fleet! design: scheme designers paint: Hawk Sherwin Williams Nordic gray & Egyptian blue

Pre-emptive.

My 69f panel is the same as the 70. The switches are also the circuit breakers. You may have a bad switch/breaker. Also try contact cleaner, maybe it is stuck. The switches get hot and shut down. The beacon itself could be bad, replace it with a led beacon. congrats on your new plane. Fly safe. Ron

I asked Don Maxwell about that trim around the stabilizer and the boarding step. Don said that it is possible to wiggle the new stuff in there. It’s not a simple job, but it is possible.

I’m guessing the SoS box is on the cockpit side of the firewall. Pull the top cowl and inspect the wiring from the left mag back to the firewall. If there’s a bad wire, it’s probably on the engine side. The P-lead wire is probably shielded (unless it’s been replaced with shielded wire under the insulation). If that looks ok, then pull the avionics access and inspect that wiring from the SoS box to the firewall. If still no smoking gun, depending on your level of mx ability, remove a plug lead from a plug on the left mag and install a plug in it. Ground the plug to the engine and have someone energize the SoS. DON’T ENGAGE THE STARTER! And, don’t get shocked. I removed my SoS years ago, and never had to troubleshoot it, so I don’t remember if it buzzes that means for certain it’s making spark. There’s an SoS troubleshooting guide, probably in the downloads section. I still have my SoS box, in case you need one.

‘Oh Lord, stuck in Lodi again…’ When the engine starts after releasing the key (and the right mag fires, as Hank describes), have you done a mag check? Does the left mag make spark then? I’m guessing hearing the shower of sparks buzzing means that box is probably working, but an inspection of the wiring between the shower of sparks and the left mag (as MooneyMitch suggests) might reveal an issue. Which side of the firewall is your shower of sparks. Do you have a 201 windscreen?

In addition to Hank’s information, a faulty ignition switch could be applying a ground on the left magneto P lead wire during the starting phase. Or possibly a bare wire point along the left magneto P lead wire path from the ignition switch to the left magneto could be picking up a ground too.

I don’t think anybody calls it that any more….

Well that kills that idea, but I like the idea of adapting the GTSO-520 heated spider. Still think there needs to be some work on the under floor plumbing heat wise however.

The Anti Collision switch doesn't turn it on? You may be thinking that switch is only for the Strobes (if you have Strobes), but in some planes one switch does it all. Or a quick way to find it is to have someone stand outside the plane and turn EVERYTHING ON like the previous owner did. Assuming they see the Beacon, then start turning things Off until they yell at you. You could also do it at night or put a white box or something out a bit from the Beacon so you see the reflection if you need to do it while you're alone. And if you don't see the Beacon, maybe the bulb is burned out or there's a wiring issue. Oh... and have you emailed the previous owner???

A couple personal thoughts: 1) you can mount the headphone/lemo jacks just underneath your panel and this helps recess your plugs and keep the wires to the sides and low out of the way. 2) I like the GSB15 down low at the bottom so I don't have cords going down my panel or catching on things. 3) given you're going with a GTN650, any reason why you wouldn't want the radios/GMC507/audio panel all in the same stack? I'd think that they should easily all fit. 4) any thought of mounting the compass where you have ram mount and mount the ram mount below that? or if you mount lemo/headphone jacks below the panel, would the compass then fit above your switches on the left of the GDU460? 5) if you move the GMC507 into the radio stack, and the switches/lights to the previous GMC 507 area in A, then would that give you enough room on the left to put the compass and Aero 553? 6) I take it that your xpndr is remote? I didn't see one on the mockup. 7) Any thought of going with a GTN750Xi instead of the 650, and a GMC35 instead of the PMA450C? 8) I have my Smart Glide button to the right of the radio stack up high. Figure this keeps sight line high if I ever needed to push the button instead of head completely down. But small enough it could fit in a lot of places. Below is what I'd probably do...personal preference regarding GMC507 top of stack vs bottom. Either way works. At the end of the day there are so many options that you're best bet is find pictures of panels that you like and send messages to those owners to see what works and what they learned if they were doing it all over next time.

A couple of things. Slick nick it’s a recently overhauled engine by Victor Aviation. Firewall forward brand new including the ignition harness. Have about 120 hours on it and the engine runs oh so good. 4 blade MT prop. Also super smooth. But a new engine prop combo. I fly all kinds of stuff. And I understand jets and oil/fuel heaters etc. I think this airplane needs that. Working on a heated fuel flow divider. Cessna 421s have it. Gonna get it STCd for this plane. It can be an option/mod. Knowledgeable opinions (above my pay grade) suggest that the water stayed liquid, suspended in the fuel, (call it supercooled water droplets) until the fuel flow divider. What’s that song? That’s my story and I’m sticking to it….

Fair enough point. What about the intangibles such as spacing yourself during vfr, maybe you are trying to pick up a clearance, or steering around airspace. Knowing where to look for traffic, if for nothing but to avoid having a concern. What happens in those moments of distraction? It isn’t simply to avoid running in to each other, is it?

Hitting the west coast of Michigan at 15k. For anyone familiar with the area, Silver lake and the Silver lake sand dunes are clearly visible!! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Exactly. The regs, the case law, precedent are nothing but a giant contradiction that you can weave an explanation out of 6 ways from Sunday just like what’s going on here. Rosen sun visors. Hahahaha. Exactly. The regs give us enough leeway to keep our airplanes flying. It’s the arm chair pontificators that keep them grounded. If a sound argument can be made, we should normalize that flexibility instead of self imposing it to be taboo. Still waiting on someone to show me a single example of someone being enforced upon that made sound judgement with fair regulatory citation. Even the idiot David Jewell who pencil whips engine overhauls isn’t being enforced upon and he’s an EGREGIOUS example of taking the loosest possible interpretation of the regs. He built me a motor, handed it back to me with a log entry that said OVERHAULED. no tags, no part list, no inspection reports, no receipts, no 8130s, no nothing whatsoever. “Over-fn-hauled. Sincerely, David Jewell”. So, there are professionals doing extremely idiotic things on a regular basis, you couldn’t beg the FAA to do anything about, and here we are wondering if it’ll be OK to use a new switch or should we use a piece of junk switch out of a wrecked airplane not knowing if it’s ok or not. It’s crazy.

I'm amazed that some people have engines that run smoothly enough to detect such subtle issues, let alone worry about them.

Are you going with new or overhaul? what is the lead time?

Well... I like mine - a lot. Enough that I'm doing a new engine at just shy of 2200hrs now into 12 years of ownership.

I’ve been to Cutter at KCOS and thought they were great.

If you can’t get anywhere with ignition, my next suspect would be a sticking exh valve. Having said that high manifold pressures do require higher voltage to fire and very often a weak ignition works fine until manifold pressure is high then it begins to miss.

There is always something faster, but the extra 100 hp is a pretty big boost.

A good (well-fitting) crow's foot on a breaker bar with a cheater pipe. That let's you apply a lot of steady torque and still feel it yield. Assuming there's space to do that, anyway.

If I understand your dealing with a pipe fitting so penetrating oil, won’t. Heat as in heat gun not torch has been my best thing to try, stupid as it sounds but slightly tightening sometimes works but I don’t know why but working it tightening then loosening when it’s hot may help.

My IA swears that for stuck parts where nothing else works he uses a 50-50 mix of Stoddard solvent and Dexron ATF and lets it soak overnight.

By that reasoning, replacing the rocker circuit breaker/switches would require a 337. You’ve effectively eliminated minor alterations, everything not in the parts manual would require a 337. I can make a owner produce part, clearly not in the parts manual, and have it installed without a 337. 14 CFR Part 43 Appendix A lists examples of major alterations and the ignition switch is not included.

How is changing a switch of one part number for another part number a major change in type design? And also aren’t we allowed to substitute parts and materials for vintage aircraft? (all mooneys are vintage aircraft) I mean they have to be equal or better right but I can’t see how any of this is major.

Yup. I get that sense from our local IA seminars, where probably half of the presenters are from FAA offices of one type or another, including the FSDO, and you can get two different opinions in two different seminars from different presenters. One was being adamant about STCs always requiring 337s because they're always major alterations. Somebody asked about "what if it is isn't a major alteration?" and the response was that if it wasn't a major alteration it wouldn't need an STC. So I asked about Rosen visors being a major alteration, and suddenly everything got very handwavy and he never answered the question. At one session there were a bunch of guys from the FSDO and they kept calling on each to answer questions because they knew who had worked a particular area, etc. Somebody asked about whether ADs apply to experimental aircraft, and it got very quiet, and then they told on themselves that there really is not agreement about that. I attended a FAASTeam meeting last week where they were opining that since a condition inspection is essentially a safety inspection and ADs are safety related it'd be difficult to justify signing off a condition inspection without compliance to ADs. So, yeah. I just take the position that if I'm comfortable standing in front of a judge explaining why I did something, that that's about as good as I can do.

Garmin engineers have supposedly been looking for over a year at an issue I sent them (with a lot of data) where the G3X does not display all TFRs that are active and displayed on my GTN. Both the GTN and G3X receive ADS-B IN from the GTX 345. I suspect it is related to an earlier problem where multi-day TFRs were only displayed on the first day on the GTN which required software updates for the GTX and GTN.

AVGAS additive for low temperature operations = IPA. See POH and https://mooneyspace.com/topic/35373-ipa-winter-ops/ Matthias

The reason the Mooney has the push to start is so that you can engage the shower of sparks without engaging the electric starter. Without that feature, you would not be able to hand prop the engine.

Awesome report! A forced landing you can walk away from awesome...one you can fly away from is even more incredible!

Ouch. Glad you and your airplane are OK! That's a little sporting, coming down through IMC. That part of OR has lots of flat areas, at least. Tight quarters, so nice job. This is reminding me of the conversations a while back about adding alcohol to the tanks in the winter. I've got an Acclaim in MT, so a good reminder to me. Looks like an MT prop? David

You people that fly at night a lot definitely get some cool views. I very, very rarely fly at night, so those cool photo ops rarely happen for me. This sunrise headed toward Tucson from Phoenix did happen, though, which was nice. Not a Mooney, but was still cool.

Flying into the sunrise started just black and became a steadily changing reflection on the cowl starting as faint glowing line of white reflection in the shape of the cowl outline. The view out the side window in the dark has reflections of the panel and I'll have to bring a black screen or something to shield the cockpit lights from reflecting next time. It's always amazing to watch beautiful sunrises and sunsets...all different and just change so quickly. Pretty cool to see the views that only can be seen out the front of an airplane though!

Another update: avionics work is in full swing, got slightly delayed by panel design/proof/finalize work but here it is: and a test fit of switches - love the attention to wiring:

Working great with no issues! Minor alterations with the new panel entries.