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(Re)introductory post here. I used to be an active pilot and active on the original Mooney email board, so some may remember me - as I've recognized more than a few old friends just in 20 minutes of glancing through this forum. Anyway, was based in Chandler AZ, 1970 M20C N9459V, moved to DC area, had her repainted as N7788V. My flying was tapering off, but the final blows were covid hit, I went through a divorce right in the middle of the lockdowns, plane fell out of annual and I refused to use the mechanic on my home field (good work, way too expensive), then ADS-B mandatory, and 88V sat in a hangar all lonesome. Was getting a bit 'out of sight, out of mind' when I got notice that my decrepit DC3 airport was closing forever and I had 30 days to move the plane. Pandemonium at Hyde Field. Started to get ferry permit in motion when I failed my medical! Crap. Now I needed a Mooney-rated ferry pilot, with DC3 FRZ privileges, and good weather all at once. Umm, let's just say the plane got moved, got a fresh annual, and got ADS-B compliant. I started working on the FAA med waiver, but the entire medical system was still jacked up coming out of covid. Keeping this too long story a little shorter, I got all the tests and reports, sent in everything to the FAA, rejected, more tests requested, another medical, a bigger package to the FAA, and then.... nothing. Calls every week, "In process", then calls every two weeks, then three, then six, then.... Here's the Murphy's Law part... I was planning some major panel upgrades to go with returning to aviation, but the medical waiver just wasn't coming through. So I got a hankering for a new motorcycle and started looking. I didn't need a new MC, but the local dealer made me a terrific offer on just the bike I wanted. So I figured that IF I bought the motorcycle, Murphy's Law would kick in and I'd get the medical waiver. I started calling Oklahoma again, "In process". Then I got someone who actually read my application and asked specific questions. Then calls the next week said "They have your application", and back the old pattern. Sighhh. At least I had a new motorcycle to ride. Last week I got an official letter in my mailbox. "We are pleased to inform you"...!!!!!! It's a 5 year waiver, but I'm almost due for another medical. LOL 88V is scheduled for annual early next month. I'm taking vacation to do my first owner-assist in 20+ years. Devouring aviation stuff on the internet. Holy crap the online education on YouTube is good. (really recommend The Finer Points). Glad that most of it is familiar, but watching the vids is upping my confidence. Bought an iPad mini 6, learning ForeFlight. Think I'll run down to the airport and reinstall her battery this weekend. Might do a high speed taxi if things aren't busy. That's for now. Lots of things have changed in aviation (if not old Mooneys), so I expect to be coming here with stupid questions. Thanks for reading. - Clear skies and tailwinds. AJ. 88V, KCJR

As many of you probably already know, Advanced Aircraft Services out of Troutdale, OR is a MSC. They used to do full reseals in the past, but no longer do them. I had heard they still do patches for leaks and had a reputation of being able to give a no sh!t assessment of whether or not a leak can be reliably patched without a reseal, and could do the job. Earlier this year, I called Greg and set up an appointment to fly my M20C up there for him to check out. The left tank was seeping fuel on the spar and my A&P/IA had been bugging me about it for a while asking me to please get it fixed. Greg and I set up an appointment for Monday of this week, so I flew up on Sunday so it would be ready Monday morning. I met with him as scheduled and he got to work on it, diagnosing and patching the leak. He let the fuel sit in the tank until Tuesday around lunch time to make sure the leak was indeed patched and by 1400 hours that afternoon, I was on my way home. It was extremely refreshing to deal with a shop that keeps its appointments and lives up to its reputation of solid work. That and Greg just seems like a very kind, hard working guy that takes pride in his work. Tim

Some numbers I see on the internet I’ve come to think that IAS must mean Internet Airspeed, because my J can’t get there.

I don't think LOP is better, it's different. It has some advantages, such as better MPG. It has some disadvantages, such as power settings you can't run. In my 182, I very rarely run any power settings that I could achieve LOP. At WOT at any given altitude you will have a lower power setting LOP than ROP because at WOT your power is limited by the amount of air you can get into the cylinder and if you change to limiting that by fuel, of course you are going to be lower power. If you are flying WOT ROP and switch to LOP, you will fly slower. For every LOP setting, there is a safe ROP setting that will cause you to fly faster. There are ROP settings for which there is no safe or achievable LOP setting. LOP has more restrictive limits than ROP. Some are temperature limits, some are not. At 8,500' in a NA engine, you can probably skip LOP and ROP, and just fly whatever mixture you want. If you want to fly at a power setting (including considering altitude) that is only available ROP, the nearest LOP is going to be lower power. And as such, you'll be flying slower. If you are already flying a power setting that is available in both ROP and LOP, you won't go faster or slower if you switch to the LOP version. I disagree that it's a safe statement to say that LOP makes less power than ROP. It is a safe statement to make that there are many power settings that are not available LOP but are available ROP, and that these are all going to be power settings higher than the closest available LOP power setting.

By all means, don’t run that risk again.

As I understand it, only the FAA determines airworthiness and if there is no AD you are under no obligation to adhere to a recall. The recall is primarily to provide legal cover for the manufacturer in the event of an accident and subsequent lawsuit. But I’m not an attorney or an expert on airworthiness.

Time for basic med?

LOP only hurts speed compared to a higher power setting. At the same amount of produced power, you will get the same speed. If you consider MP the measure of power you'll get lower speeds running LOP because you need a higher MP (and/or RPM) in order to achieve the same power output when running LOP. Some people cruise ROP at power settings that they cannot achieve LOP at, so you'd have to choose a lower power setting to fly LOP, and in that case you'd fly slower. If you consider fuel burn to be your power setting, you will fly faster LOP than ROP, since LOP has a higher BSFC. Of course you can pick LOP and ROP settings where this isn't true, like extreme LOP is actually less efficient than barely ROP, but in general, LOP is going to be more efficient, and therefore you'll be faster LOP than if you are burning the same amount of fuel ROP.

There are good mechanics, and there are not so good mechanics. I realized at some point halfway into ownership that it’s foolish to think that only the “not so good ones” make mistakes. Everyone makes mistakes, the difference between good and not so good are the processes used to reveal mistakes before the aircraft is returned to service. Several years ago, I noted an EGT increase on number one during climb out. This was a few hours after I had performed a plug rotation. Mag check revealed a miss. I was deeply disturbed to find that I had failed to tighten the lower plug lead on #1 which had completely detached. Not only did I not tighten it, but missed my mistake on final inspection before reassembly. I changed my process because of it. My leads are 90° elbows. I used to orient/angle all of the elbows by hand before tightening. I don’t do that anymore.

I flew 6 and up year olds in my back seat and it was fine when they were small. Its very cramped as they became 20 somethings year olds and over 6 feet but I have flow with the same used to be a 6 year old now 6'4'' who wanted to sit in the back holding hands with his girl friend. Too small for that for a nice flight but it was superb when they were small. When I got this plane I thought I would end up moving up to a larger plane when they got big but I never ended up doing that. Now all 3 boys are all grown up - I drop my youngest off at college in Providence, RI in 2 weeks.... This plane serves me just great now on the other side and Im keeping her.

Informed members will have probably figured this out, but my lack of knowledge went beyond semantics. The J-model ignition issue I posted about above is associated with a Slick magnetos and ignition system (on an IO-390). I actually thought the Slick system was a type of shower-of-sparks system, but I am learning that it is a replacement for the shower of sparks system. So thank you to those who have tried to help me out (I'm still in trouble-shooting mode via the shop) and apologies to those who I confused. I'm learning a lot, regardless.

Endorsements are for the young!

This is my C in the hangar this afternoon.

I had a multiple leaks in the outboard bay of my left fuel tank and Greg and his team patched it successfully this spring. I could pick up my plane within a week and IRC, bill was less then $1500, probably with some fuel. Highly recommended.

+1 for Greg and Advanced. They have earned my trust since moving to the PNW region.

With slower airplanes that boom drag isn’t as much of a penalty, but when you buy the fastest certified piston single plane in its class mooney got there by reducing more drag than the competition and you paid for that. Why turn around and add it back in?

@gwav8or Are you sure you have SOS (shower of sparks; makes buzzing sound) or Slick-Start (electronic; no sound)?

In my M20F I see 143 kts TAS at 8500 WOT 2500 rpm 9 gph (67% LOP)

The cat likes them better.

There is more to the gross weight of an airplane than flying, Landing has a lot to do with it. You have to be able to slam a fully loaded plane into the ground without breaking anything.

When I had an M20F, it went about 145 KTS in cruise. After I had it for quite a while, I added a cowl closure and adjusted the rigging and It would do 152 KTS. I never ran it LOP.

What little I've read about it seems to point to an improved steel tube structure with larger diameter tubes (or maybe more structure?) near the wing attach points and beefier main gear units. I have no idea if this is true. It's just what I've gleaned from a couple articles.

I just got my quote. Liability was $350 and hull was $1800. It's all about the landing gear.... Put er down!

thanks for info on Weep No More but i am not quite ready to do it - but soon. Luckily i don’t have to look at it that way, nor justify any trip, i have my plane for traveling and budget annually for that so would just substitute this trip for another and ideally make it a bit of holiday in the process; at least the return. But understand as it eats up real $. Good luck on yours. We lost a great option for west coast re-seals when Greg opted to discontinue this service. His shop has a great reputation as well. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Just order a harness from Maggie, they will get you the right one.

Can they do that without an AD?

Easy to forgive your confusion. Champion makes an after market ignition booster called “Slick Start”… SlickStart™ unleashes a firestorm of ignition energy to get your engine started

Greg resealed my tanks in 2021. He’s a solid guy and runs a great shop with great work ethic. I would definitely recommend his services.

I wouldn't have thought you'd lose that much power from losing three plugs one one side with the others left. I suspect there may have been more to it.

That's how ya learn! Let us know what you find out!

We stopped at Springbank to visit Banff on the way to Alaska. They arranged a rental car for me… was a very easy experience. I think it was like $40CAD a night and they took some off for buying fuel, which wasn’t terribly overpriced. These prices are pretty typical in my experience for Canadian FBOs at busy airports, if maybe on the lower end. It’s only about an hour drive to Banff from there, but it’s closer than from Calgary anyway.

Here you go. I just put two of these in my Mooney and you can even get them with the trim, PTT, and AP switches installed. https://www.cygnet-aero.com/control-wheel-ca60-524080-17

After a TON of consternation, I decided to go with bladders today and put down a deposit. I canceled my reseal appointment only because of the long trip from KCRQ to KBDH. I figured $4K in fuel, hotel and roundtrip air fare costs. For anyone considering bladders, it's a long lead time item. Eagle Fuel Cells makes the bladders for Griggs and they are out of some of the required material. Apparently two of the three companies that make the material have closed (sigh) slowing deliveries. So... I'm expecting the bladder kit in 5-7 months (TBD). If I can't get through my next annual, I'll ground the plane and wait. I was looking forward to working with Paul at Weep No More and experiencing MN, but it's a long hot haul in Aug from SOCAL when you have other obligations and pressures to get back home. Looking forward now to documenting and reporting out on the bladder install. BTW, prices have gone up 14% in the last 10 months (sigh). If you are considering bladders, don't delay. Hope I made a good decision.

Since Mooneys don't have oleo struts that can collapse or be overcharged, just sitting on level ground is relevant.

If you're in the South, David at Dugosh is also a whiz at patching tanks. I think he kind of enjoys it.

I'll third this, i was almost immediately comfortable with the 355 coming from the 480 and Garmin Pilot.

The patch cost me four hours of labor, which I felt was more than reasonable.

Yeah I've heard that a few times from you and @Skates97. I've got the material but just didn't like the bubbles I saw in it. If you use soap to remove the bubbles, but then put it back on, there's more bubbles. Out the door with the OSH discount and DIY kit, $700, to get all 4 covered plus the front, isn't too shabby.

Imagine if you had already installed it. What a $hit show. Are you supposed to put it up on cinderblocks while you wait? I’m surprised the FSDO didn’t try to find a workaround. That’s quite an imposition for something that likely has nothing to do with the physical airworthiness of the part.

Ouch! Manual gear for the win. Hope those with the Dukes actuator get it resolved quickly!

Not surprised you accomplished it quickly. But I don't think this sort of thing is really about how fast you can work. Rather, it's about the confidence to get the job done methodically, even if you're interrupted during the process to correct a small attitude deviation, backspace after a bump of turbulence causes you to hit the wrong key, etc. It's just not a crisis if it takes a full minute to load a new approach, or re-load the current approach with a different transition. A skill that's important in establishing that confidence, is having enough situational awareness to understand whether you're actually short on time and space. Assigning a new approach or transition when you're 30 seconds away from a no-longer-relevant fix is kind of a jerk move by the controller; but doing so when you're several minutes away is not. So what if it takes you a couple of minutes to bring up the new plate and re-load the approach? You've got that time. But you only know that if you have enough SA. It's hard to argue that SA is a Herculean task in the modern era of moving maps and geo-referenced approach plates, but you still have to be ahead of the airplane. On a related note, one of the things I teach my IFR students is the importance of this tool in the tool bag: XXX Approach, can I get a vector while I re-program my GPS? This is unlikely to piss off the controller, but even if it does, you're the PIC. And that vector request might help a new controller understand what's a reasonable expectation, though that's rare. Experienced controllers already know when they're giving you a late/high workload assignment, and will be unsurprised by the vector request. That's not to say you shouldn't bring your "A" game in a busy metropolitan area. But in the end, the person with their fingers on the GPS, and the folks in front of the scope, are all on the same team.

CYBW is my home airport. It's the closest one to Banff. Banff is maintained but for emergency use only, since it's inside the national park. You can park and tie down at Springbank, rent a car, and be in Banff within an hour.

I flew into Calgary Springbank a few years ago to visit Banff and Jasper parks. This is a general aviation airport with good services for transients. It is a Customs airport of entry. There is no reason to land short of there. The FBO Springbank Aero can arrange for rental car drop off. It was an easy drive to Banff. I don't remember what the fees were, but it wasn't anything shocking. Fuel prices are in liters, so who knows what I paid. I can't think of any reason to go into Calgary Intl. https://springbank.aero/contact/ Jon

These were 12v clocks made by VDO in Germany. There’s a voltage step down clock circuit in 28v Mooneys that have this clock. VDO made the clock to go into Porsche 944s starting in 1986. Mid-Continent bought the clocks from VDO. The first Mooney to have this clock? (Drumroll please. . . .) The 1988 Mooney Porsche M20L where it was found on the Pilot yoke. Later it showed up on the TLS panel and then made it to other Mooneys.

Absolutely. The fuel situation was confusing. If he really had 90 minutes of fuel, my advice would have been to climb above the clouds and take five minutes to get his head straight and come up with a plan. Bouncing around in IMC when you’re seriously task saturated has a tendency to get worse and worse as fatigue sets in. If he had five minutes of straight and level flight, he could retrieve an iPad charger from a bag, or figure out an ILS to fly, or something. A VOR circling approach in the soup isn’t a great recipe for success with a non-proficient pilot. Finding VMC somewhere and flying to it - or at least finding high ceilings somewhere that would allow a visual approach after an IMC descent - is what I’d want for him.

I feel sorry for the guy. It must have been terrifying flying in the soup, unable to stay level. I sure hope this experience caused him to reconsider his lack of currency and proficiency, as well as critical decision making. Regardless of the legality of an iPad for navigation, how do you find yourself aloft with 10% battery and no way to charge, when you are obviously using it as a primary means of navigation? There appears to be a long thread of poor decisions. Despite these he is alive and safe, and has an opportunity to do better now. Let’s hope he does.

Hmm, I've always thought the "7" on my plane looked kinda of cool. Guess I'm just not up on airplane fashion trends

Lot of FUD in this thread. Simply put The Executive represents the pinnacle of Mooney. It’s in the name. Would you rather pull up to the ramp in an Executive or a “Ranger”. Executives represent those of us who read Town & Country for the articles and know a good cigar when we see it. Champagne kisses and caviar dreams.

There are many models of Mooney: M20, M20-A, B, C, D, E, F, G, J, K, L, R, S, TN, U, V. Some have numbers: 201, 205, 231, 252, 301. Some have names also: Chaparral, Ranger, Executive, Super, Allegro, Bravo, Eagle, Ovation, Acclaim. Some names append "2" or "3", i.e., Ovation 3. I'm missing some here . . . Some have fancy STC conversions with new names / numbers: 261, 262, Missile, Rocket, Encore. They boil down to three airframes: Original is the short body, with Lycoming engines. All models up through E. The mid-bodies have an additional 5" back seat legroom and 5" baggage space. These are F-K. The long bodies are some two feet longer, some for the Continental 6-cylinder engine, and the rest went to additional baggage space. They can be identified by the rear cabin former being visible in the back window on each side. These are everything made begin with L. The two-door long bodies have "Ultra" attached to their names. Happy hunting!

Jorgen- typically I'm flying in the 8-11k range at altitudes at 2550 rpm and around 13-14 gph. and vary between ROP and 10-20 lean of peak on the leanest cyl. depending on winds and temps. I've found that the factory 3 probe egt will show 40-50 lop when my GEM 610 shows less. The descriptive of the chart for the M20R that we are to use is attached. It shows 190 knots at 2500 rpm. Thus it would stand to reason that 2550 would give more speed even though this chart is ROP and 7500'. In addition since I fly alone 90% of the time I am well below the 3368 lbs which also increases speed. As you know the temp will also effect the TAS and I fly more in the cooler times of the year so that also helps. However I might suggest you check your rigging. It can make a huge differance. There should not be that much differance in our performances when compared to book. Currently I have 425 hrs TT on th A/C and had the rigging checked at time of purchase by an MSC. it was pretty much dead on although one gear door was tweaked. In the past I have picked up 6 knots or more with Mooney's that were out of rig. Just something to consider. MOONEY M20R - OVATION 2 GX SECTION V PERFORMANCE 5 - - 26 AIRPLANE FLIGHT MANUAL ORIGINAL ISSUE - - 12-11-2007 M20R OVATION 2 GX - SPEED POWER VS ALTITUDE EXAMPLE: PRESS ALT 7,500 FT OAT 10 C POWER 75% AIRSPEED 190 KTAS SPEED, POWER VS. ALTITUDE GEAR UP , FLAPS UP , 3368 LBS