Cyril Gibb Posted June 5, 2013 Report Share Posted June 5, 2013 Anybody with a Mooney in the Toronto area willing to take a passenger for a demo flight? I'll pick up the gas.... maybe even lunch if the destination includes an eatery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N201MKTurbo Posted June 6, 2013 Report Share Posted June 6, 2013 A Mooney is like a Brietling a arrow is like a Timex. They both tell time, but which one do you want to show your friends? 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted June 6, 2013 Report Share Posted June 6, 2013 The Arrow is a good airplane, just 20 knots slower with the same engine. A T-tail Arrow IV is harder to land than a Mooney as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Posted June 6, 2013 Report Share Posted June 6, 2013 I took my commercial CR in a 180 hp Arrow. I got it to fly, the DE was so amazed that he signed me off right then and there and congratulated me said "takes a darn good pilot to make and Arrow fly. Mooney forever. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carqwik Posted June 6, 2013 Report Share Posted June 6, 2013 Flew the T-Arrow IV for about 50 hours before stepping into a 252 (and these were all rental planes in Socal in the mid- to late 1980s). There's no comparison...the Mooney was (and still is) like driving a Porsche compared to a Chevy Malibu...it was that dramatic. The T-Tail Arrow IV is kind of a dog...and terrible in turbulence with awful side-to-side motion (yaw). It has to be landed at 80 knots to keep the elevator working... And of course the build quality of the Mooney compared to the Arrow speaks for itself. Any further questions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyril Gibb Posted June 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2013 Thanks for the comments. I assume the Arrow handles the same (T-tail perhaps not) as the Cherokee Cruiser I used to own and the Warrior I currently rent. However, seeing is believing. I sat in an M20F for a few minutes and it did seem cramped, as has been mentioned elsewhere. I do understand that the cabin width is essentially the same as a Cherokee with the reduced cabin height giving a different perception. I really need to fly in one to get a more fair comparison. Unfortunately, when I did a search on the members, there seems to be only a few entries for Canada, with none in the Toronto area. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJBrown Posted June 6, 2013 Report Share Posted June 6, 2013 I had to rent a Turbo Arrow when the 231 was becoming a Rocket. The Arrow was fat and slow. Same power settings netted 20 fewer knots. Never flew a T tail but heard the horror stories. Both had the same size tanks and same basic engine, Mooney just got a lot more out of them. Besides the Pipers look a little dowdy while the Mooneys are sleek. Who was it said form follows function? Other than the T tail joke the Cherokee/Arrow airframe flies and handles easy even if a bit slow. After all a Arrow is just a Cherokee/Archer that can fold its feet. Forget all the Indian names they are all PA-28 somethings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_Carter Posted June 6, 2013 Report Share Posted June 6, 2013 I flew a Traumahawk a bit. I hated that thing. The Cherokee handled much better, but I only flew it once. I don't have a Mooney experience to compare it too yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Gravel Posted June 6, 2013 Report Share Posted June 6, 2013 Anybody with a Mooney in the Toronto area willing to take a passenger for a demo flight? I'll pick up the gas.... maybe even lunch if the destination includes an eatery Cyril: I don't think we have any Mooneyspace members from Toronto. You might try talking to the folks at Tri-City in Waterloo. Clarence looks after four or five local Mooneys and another four or five from Toronto (Burlington, Buttonville and Brampton). I don't think there are any at City Centre (Toronto Island) - but I could be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantom Posted June 6, 2013 Report Share Posted June 6, 2013 The two best applications for an Arrow are as a RG flight school dog, and as a short term preparation to fly a Mooney. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted June 6, 2013 Report Share Posted June 6, 2013 You don't need to fly both, a simple paper exercise is all you need to compare the two... When I did the exercise, Mooney seemed like a niche plane. I was concerned that if I couldn't afford to fly over the long term, could I possibly sell it again without losing my shirt. I performed a PPI on the Arrow, lucky for me, it failed. So I bought what I really wanted an M20C... 15 years later the factory was back in business and then out again. Somebody invented the Internet. M20Cs are common and are easy to buy and sell. MooneySpace was created and revised. Interest rates are at an all time low. Support from the factory is alive. Support from the community is tremendous. Support from the engine manufacturers is excellent. Who wouldn't want to buy a Mooney and hangout here? Best regards, -a- 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 Who wouldn't want to buy a Mooney and hangout here? Winner! Winner! Post of the year! You may pick up your award in person at KHTW. Let me know when you're coming to get it, and how you like your hot dogs. Check the menu at www.hillbillyhotdogs.com and I'll drive you across the bridge to get it. :-) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 Hank, Thanks for the offer. I'm fixing to get started to prepare my around the......er......a.....eastern states tour... I'll be puttin' the hotdogs on the list! Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcrogers11 Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 i've owned both, and the Mooney is hands down the better airplane with my only exception being the ergonomics between my 64C and the 68 Arrow that I had a partnership in. I've always felt the Arrow was just a bit more comfortable. Of course you need the additional comfort as is takes longer to get there than the Mooney. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 While you're beginning to think about studying to come by, your fast, heavy longbody will do better at KHTS across the river. I'll bring you to HTW in my C just for old times' sake, although it has electric gear. 3000' is plenty for me even with the trees, but is kind of tight for anything beyond a K, and I won't swear about them; Js don't have a problem.o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lood Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 It's like keeping a horse at stable. The ugly one eats just as much as the pretty one, so you might just as well keep a pretty one... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyril Gibb Posted June 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2013 One more question that probably impacts a very small proportion of people here... Will a road bike with wheels removed get through an M20 baggage door, or can be squeezed in through the main door? There would be 2 bikes... one for me and another for "she who must be obeyed". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted June 11, 2013 Report Share Posted June 11, 2013 Cyril, There is plenty written about bikes somewhere around here. The search button at the top will help you find it. I used to put my bike in the back of a firebird... Just depends on your motivation I think. You may have to select the right bike.... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted June 11, 2013 Report Share Posted June 11, 2013 One more question that probably impacts a very small proportion of people here... Will a road bike with wheels removed get through an M20 baggage door, or can be squeezed in through the main door? There would be 2 bikes... one for me and another for "she who must be obeyed". Two bikes and two people are no problem at all in my M20K with the rear seats down. I have carried two full size 29ers, and I have also carried two full size time trial bikes or also two full size road bikes. Wheels off of course. Word to the wise - get some BBQ covers and wrap the bikes in the BBQ covers before they go in the plane - it will keep the grease and sharp bits away from your nice airplane interior. Wheel bags are nice for the same reason. Full size bikes need to go through the front door. Not idea but its fine. I have also carried - often - just me and my time trial bike with the rear wheel still on - my time trial bike has a horizontal drop out so the rear wheel is a bit of a pain to get on and off - oh and if it is just one bike (in BBQ cover) then I can slip it into the back with the rear seats still fully in place. Seat post needs to come off. I also have a pair of 20'' wheeled folding bikes. I got them because they fold almost instantly and they easily go in through the baggage door. (Again in bbq covers to keep everything clean). Also....I have a 26er mtn bike and with wheels off and seatpost off, it goes in through the baggage door - but the wheels go in through the front door. I know...I have a lot of bikes - I think there are 15 or more bikes in my garage between me, my wife, our tandem, and my 3 sons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted June 11, 2013 Report Share Posted June 11, 2013 Two bikes and two people are no problem at all in my M20K with the rear seats down. I have carried two full size 29ers, and I have also carried two full size time trial bikes or also two full size road bikes. Wheels off of course. Word to the wise - get some BBQ covers and wrap the bikes in the BBQ covers before they go in the plane - it will keep the grease and sharp bits away from your nice airplane interior. Wheel bags are nice for the same reason. Full size bikes need to go through the front door. Not idea but its fine. I have also carried - often - just me and my time trial bike with the rear wheel still on - my time trial bike has a horizontal drop out so the rear wheel is a bit of a pain to get on and off - oh and if it is just one bike (in BBQ cover) then I can slip it into the back with the rear seats still fully in place. Seat post needs to come off. I also have a pair of 20'' wheeled folding bikes. I got them because they fold almost instantly and they easily go in through the baggage door. (Again in bbq covers to keep everything clean). Also....I have a 26er mtn bike and with wheels off and seatpost off, it goes in through the baggage door - but the wheels go in through the front door. I know...I have a lot of bikes - I think there are 15 or more bikes in my garage between me, my wife, our tandem, and my 3 sons. Thats a lot of bikes, Eric. You should consider an A36. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted June 11, 2013 Report Share Posted June 11, 2013 Thats a lot of bikes, Eric. You should consider an A36. A36 is nice - but not big enough. I think if I want to bring all the bikes I need a Pilatus. :-O Luckily I generally only want to ride one bike at a time so Mooney works fine as a two place-twobike transport vehicle. I have sometimes thought about how funny yakima car-roof racks would look on an airplane. Do you think it would be hard to get an STC for one of these http://www.rei.com/product/784533/yakima-copperhead-bike-mount ? Or better yet - I could get them installed on the wings then I could carry four bikes, two on each wing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsengle Posted June 11, 2013 Report Share Posted June 11, 2013 The Arrow is a good airplane, just 20 knots slower with the same engine. A T-tail Arrow IV is harder to land than a Mooney as well. Funny, I owned a T tailed arrow, 1981 normally aspirated. I found it easy to land, easier than the Ovation I own now. That said, I do ok in the Mooney too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted June 11, 2013 Report Share Posted June 11, 2013 A36 is nice - but not big enough. I think if I want to bring all the bikes I need a Pilatus. :-O Luckily I generally only want to ride one bike at a time so Mooney works fine as a two place-twobike transport vehicle. I have sometimes thought about how funny yakima car-roof racks would look on an airplane. Do you think it would be hard to get an STC for one of these http://www.rei.com/product/784533/yakima-copperhead-bike-mount ? Or better yet - I could get them installed on the wings then I could carry four bikes, two on each wing. Just add a couple of hardpoints and carry them on the bottom of the wings . . . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantom Posted June 11, 2013 Report Share Posted June 11, 2013 Thats a lot of bikes, Eric. You should consider an A36. Or a PC-12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted June 11, 2013 Report Share Posted June 11, 2013 Or a PC-12 Perfect! Sincerely, Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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