Fuel cap O-ring Replacement

[Buster1]

I did my own rings in my caps per the already listed CSOBeech threads.  The flurosilicone rings last 5 yrs (not 20) and are like $5 from O-rings Inc on line.  I don't believe you need any A&P signoff for the work done.

 

http://www.oringsusa.com/catalog/index.php

 

Put a little DC-4 on there to help lube them up for easy install and maybe every so often to keep them happy.

[Mooney_Allegro]

My mechanic replaced the fuel-cap o-rings 2 years ago at annual, & I noticed the fuel caps were much easier to remove and press the tab down. A few weeks later, after the plane was sitting out in a rain storm, I drained 10 full cups of water from the left fuel tank. In 15 years, I never drained any water from the tanks until that day. So from now on, I make sure the tension is tight on those caps after servicing.

[bumper]

I did my own rings in my caps per the already listed CSOBeech threads.  The flurosilicone rings last 5 yrs (not 20) and are like $5 from O-rings Inc on line.  I don't believe you need any A&P signoff for the work done.

 

http://www.oringsusa.com/catalog/index.php

 

Put a little DC-4 on there to help lube them up for easy install and maybe every so often to keep them happy.

 

Buster1,

 

I just checked that link for a size 338 fluorosilicone 70 duro and oringsusa is listing it at $10.50 ea plus shipping. I have Amazon "prime" and they list that ring at the same price but with free shipping.

 

I still have lots of the fluorosilicone small O-rings, size 10 for the center shaft. A stamped self-addressed envelope (see my earlier post this thread) will get you two little blue rings for free. Note that the return envelope only needs one stamp.

 

bumper

[chrisk]

I think Amazon has the 338 338 fluorosilicone O rings for $8.49 right now.  http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0055E1RLM/ref=biss_dp_t_asn

[RJBrown]

My mechanic replaced the fuel-cap o-rings 2 years ago at annual, & I noticed the fuel caps were much easier to remove and press the tab down. A few weeks later, after the plane was sitting out in a rain storm, I drained 10 full cups of water from the left fuel tank. In 15 years, I never drained any water from the tanks until that day. So from now on, I make sure the tension is tight on those caps after servicing.

One more example of a maintainence induced failure. http://www.avweb.com/news/savvyaviator/savvy_aviator_53_dark_side_of_maintenance_196909-1.html

Mechanics are taught to do more than they should.

More than half of the component failures that cause FAA investigations are Maintainence induced.

Maintainence COSTS are directly related to how MUCH is done and not how WELL it is done. 

This job does not take 15 min to complete. For a shop to replace them every year for an hour+ labor and parts is the rip off I was talking about. Situations are different and should be taken into account. For a hangered plane these O rings last quite a while. For a plane parked outside in a rainy climate 2 or 3 years is still conservative. To use the SB as an excuse to add $150 to every annual is self serving.

[isaacpr7]

I found this useful video about servicing the flush fuel caps:

 

http://www.eaavideo.org/video.aspx?v=1200008857001

[Guest]

One more example of a maintainence induced failure. http://www.avweb.com/news/savvyaviator/savvy_aviator_53_dark_side_of_maintenance_196909-1.html

Mechanics are taught to do more than they should.

More than half of the component failures that cause FAA investigations are Maintainence induced.

Maintainence COSTS are directly related to how MUCH is done and not how WELL it is done. 

This job does not take 15 min to complete. For a shop to replace them every year for an hour+ labor and parts is the rip off I was talking about. Situations are different and should be taken into account. For a hangered plane these O rings last quite a while. For a plane parked outside in a rainy climate 2 or 3 years is still conservative. To use the SB as an excuse to add $150 to every annual is self serving.

I'd love to see it done in fifteen minutes. Grab the copy of the s/b from the library, walk to the stores departments pick up "O" rings and cotter pins, walk back into the hangar, remove the cap, dis-assemble the cap, remove the "O" ring from the shaft, install new "O" ring, re-assemble cap, adjust tension, install cotter pin, repeat for opposite cap. Fill out required snag on snag list(customer wants accurate records as does regulator) enter parts on work order/ invoice, return s/b to library, fill out log book entry( in Canada in two sepparate log books)

Clarence

[RJBrown]

You prove me right with every post. In my auto shop the parts list for the vehicle is made up once. The trip to parts isn't for each o ring or cotter pin. The sb has been done so many times the trip to the library is also a waste of time. If you actually work in the manner shown you need a big lesson in time management. If each procedure is done by its self from start to logbook entry before moving on to the next item you may be able to waste an hour on the job, especially if you include that union coffee break and a trip to the bathroom.

[mike_elliott]

One more example of a maintainence induced failure. http://www.avweb.com/news/savvyaviator/savvy_aviator_53_dark_side_of_maintenance_196909-1.html

Mechanics are taught to do more than they should.

More than half of the component failures that cause FAA investigations are Maintainence induced.

Maintainence COSTS are directly related to how MUCH is done and not how WELL it is done. 

This job does not take 15 min to complete. For a shop to replace them every year for an hour+ labor and parts is the rip off I was talking about. Situations are different and should be taken into account. For a hangered plane these O rings last quite a while. For a plane parked outside in a rainy climate 2 or 3 years is still conservative. To use the SB as an excuse to add $150 to every annual is self serving.

 If you are getting wacked for $150 by your IA at annual to change these o rings, you might want to change IA's or find one that doesn't charge $300/hour. If that $150 included a host of other non listed little squawks then that might be different.

[jetdriven]

I found this useful video about servicing the flush fuel caps:

 

http://www.eaavideo.org/video.aspx?v=1200008857001

I purchased John Schwaner's mechanics toolbox and it has a ton of info about o-rings. One thing of note was to not lubricate silicone o-rings parts with silicone grease.

[Guest]

You prove me right with every post. In my auto shop the parts list for the vehicle is made up once. The trip to parts isn't for each o ring or cotter pin. The sb has been done so many times the trip to the library is also a waste of time. If you actually work in the manner shown you need a big lesson in time management. If each procedure is done by its self from start to logbook entry before moving on to the next item you may be able to waste an hour on the job, especially if you include that union coffee break and a trip to the bathroom.

RJ,

With all due respect and not wanting to make this personal, please go back and read Alan's original post. He has never changed the "O" rings on his caps before. If one were doing it for the first or second time following the directions in the S/B should lead to better results than not following directions. There are many steps involved in the process, whether one goes to the library or reads it on line, then to the stores dept. or orders them on line there is still a time component involved. Obviously someone who is familiar will get the job done much faster than someone attempting it for their first time.

Also please not that in Alan's post this job is not being done during an annual inspection so it would need a log book entry and a sign off by his A&P(assuming that it falls outside of owner maintenance tasks)

No where in any of my posts on this subject did I say this is the process that I follow in my shop. You are painting all maintainers as rip off artists. You are in the automotive sector according to your post, it has an equally bad reputation, your being the exception, so please don't throw stones at me.

By the way, yes my technicians are entitled to two coffee breaks per day as well as a lunch break all mandated by provincial law and I don't make them ask permission to use the bathroom (not a rest room)

Enough said,

Clarence

[RJBrown]

My original comment was a warning about mechanics that use the service bulletin as an excuse to replace the O rings every year and charge over $100 for the service. The airfilter service bulletin gets abused the same way. Some shops point out the work ahead of time and give you a choice. Some don't. Some unnecessarily use scare tactics to sell work. Some do the work without asking and the only time it comes up for discussion is if you ask about the extra charge after the fact.

 It is kind of like quoting a Timing belt. A belt and the labor to replace it may only come to $300 on some car. If that is all that gets quoted the mechanic is a crook. There items that are normally included or recommend be at the same time. They should get discussed ahead of time. Some of these "complete" jobs run near $1000. The time to have the discussion is before the vehicle is apart. Some do the teardown THEN sell the additional work. Thinking once the teardown is done it is easier to sell work to a customer "held hostage" Knowing full well that you intend to sell $1000 worth of work but only quoting the minimum of $300 untill later is dishonest.

 Knowing you intend to perform the full service bulletin and charging more for it than was originally quoted is the rip-off I was warning about.

 The question "how much is an annual" should be answered completely. Not just an inspection price, but everything done or included regularly. Changing the oil and filter, checking/rotating plugs and doing a compression test, lubing all control fittings, lubing and checking the landing gear operation. Changing these O rings and the air filter, changing the filter in the vacuum system. etc.etc. There is a long list of things that get done while in for an annual. If you know you intend to sell it you need to discuss it ahead of time. If it truly is a "found" discrepancy it needs to be fully discussed prior to repair.

 If a shop tells me an annual is $2000 and when it is done he presents me with a $5000 bill and has not discussed each and every item added he is a crook.

Muttering that these are all normal things you needed does not cut it. There should NEVER be any "surprises" when the bill is presented.

 We as aircraft owners put up with behavior that a car owner never would.

[bumper]

I purchased John Schwaner's mechanics toolbox and it has a ton of info about o-rings. One thing of note was to not lubricate silicone o-rings parts with silicone grease.

That is correct with regard to "plain" silicone O-rings, which are not recommended for use with hydrocarbon fuels - or silicone grease.

 

However, this is not the case when using Fluorosilicone O-rings which are not adversely affected by hydrocarbon fuels, silicone grease, or petroleum grease.

 

bumper

[testwest]

Bumper, PM sent on small o-rings!

[xcrmckenna]

Does changing the o-rings fall into preventative maintenance, or will I need a mechanic to replace them? I would like to get the Fluorosilicone o rings since I am in an open T hanger. 

[carusoam]

The large outer O-ring is easy to access.

The small internal oring requires disassembly and readjusting for best seal.

Not getting it done right, leads to fuel being sucked out the top and rain water falling in... neither is good for continuous flight.

Shouldn't be that complex, but it is...

If you leave it to a mechanic, make sure you oversee/review the work done to make sure the cap seals and closes properly.

Done during the annual...

Best regards,

-a-

[HRM]

7 hours ago, xcrmckenna said:

Does changing the o-rings fall into preventative maintenance, or will I need a mechanic to replace them? I would like to get the Fluorosilicone o rings since I am in an open T hanger. 

Pretty sure it is not PM and the rings are not approved AFAIK.

That said, my hangar elves replaced mine with fluorosilicone years ago, my IA didn't bat an eye.

[xcrmckenna]

I would not have a problem changing the outside ring but the smaller ring I don't think I would want to do the first time without a mechanic there. But I'm seeing a few cracks on the outside ring so they will be replaced sooner than later.


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[Skates97]

7 minutes ago, xcrmckenna said:

I would not have a problem changing the outside ring but the smaller ring I don't think I would want to do the first time without a mechanic there. But I'm seeing a few cracks on the outside ring so they will be replaced sooner than later.


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I didn't think the inner ring was that difficult to replace. Make note of what order nuts/washers go in as the shaft is taken apart and put it back together the same way. Adjust the nut as necessary prior to putting the cotter pin back in.

[xcrmckenna]

I didn't think the inner ring was that difficult to replace. Make note of what order nuts/washers go in as the shaft is taken apart and put it back together the same way. Adjust the nut as necessary prior to putting the cotter pin back in.

It's the adjustment I'm worried about. Not getting it right and it not sealing properly.


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[DonMuncy]

7 minutes ago, xcrmckenna said:

It's the adjustment I'm worried about. Not getting it right and it not sealing properly.
 

My hangar elf tells me it is not hard to figure out.

[Guest paulie]

On 3/14/2013 at 10:23 PM, Jamie said:

It's definitely placed correctly. After reading a thread on here about a line guy wedging a cap, I've been careful about putting them on and have been removing / replacing them myself when getting fuel. One's fine, the other I can't lift without a stick or something.

 

You can't reuse a cotter pin, right? I'll have to find some more and then I'll give it a try. Thanks.

NO! YOU CANNOT REUSE A COTTER PIN! Jeez. And the stainless steel attraction I don't get. Stainless is weaker than the steel ones plus you need to use what the IPC calls out, plus this is not a non A&P job.

[xcrmckenna]

My hangar elf tells me it is not hard to figure out.

Got them ordered. If my engine burns up I'm going to blame the installation of those gaskets....


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[Guest paulie]

The point is not the airplane blowing up, it's if you make a insurance claim and they dig into the books you're giving them a reason to deny the claim. Same reason I pull permits on everything I modify on my house.

[HRM]

1 hour ago, paulie said:

The point is not the airplane blowing up, it's if you make a insurance claim and they dig into the books you're giving them a reason to deny the claim.

Only if the accident was caused by the issue. Good grief, if every time a guy had a gear up I can't imagine any 50 year old Mooney where they couldn't find something a hangar elf touched.

Thank goodness my hangar elf is an engineer. Poor Don's is an attorney. On second thought...