201 Cowling for Pre J Mooney's

[Sabremech]

 I'm considering doing an STC for Pre J model Mooney's to install a 201 style cowling. I'd like to gauge Pre 201 Mooney owners interest and also get an idea of what the Mooney community believes would be an acceptable price given the value of the older Mooney's. I'm aware of other cowlings available, but the price is too much for me and my C model versus the value of my airplane.

Thank you,

David Staffeldt

Vintage Airworks

[KSMooniac]

Are you thinking about getting an STC to install a 201 cowling from a J, or are you thinking about creating a new non-Mooney cowling for the retrofit?

[Sabremech]

Initial thoughts are to use a J cowling to fit it to my C model for the carbureted Mooney's and then to an E & F for the fuel injected models. The STC cowlings would either be carbon fiber or fiberglass depending on costs.

David

[N33GG]

Count me and my 68C interrested.

[DaV8or]

It might be easier to get the STC if you use genuine Mooney 201 cowl parts. Instead of making all new parts from scratch, either work a deal with MAC to supply new parts, or get into the parts refurbishment business. I think if the parts already had TSO'd and PMA approval, the STC might be easier to get.

As to cost, it has to be less than the Lo Presti cowl or no one will do it. Maybe shoot for the cost of the old SWTA 201 style cowl conversion, but in that case, the STC used a lot of the original vintage cowl parts. I suspect if you go the all new parts of your own design and manufacture route, you'll end up being forced to charge very near the Lo Presti price.

I think using used parts in the STC is probably the only cost effective way to convert the vintage planes with prices the way they are and I don't see plane values going up any time soon. With all the ramp queens and salvage planes out there, there should be a good supply of parts.

[PilotDerek]

I would love a 201 cowl, but it would come down to price. The main thing I want is an easier way to look the engine over without taking the whole cowling off.

[Sabremech]

I originally thought of using the factory 201 cowling from slavage yards, but am finding out that there aren't that many of them available. I'm in the process of locating a set now, purchasng them, and it alone has proven to be a challenge. With the shortage of originals, it's going to have to be a manufactured cowling and will be similar to others that are or were available. Price point is going to be the key for me as I know what the value of my airplane is and what I'd be willing to spend to update the look of my airplane. The STC process doesn't bother me as I've been down that road with my other company. I'll most likely have 2 STC's, one for carbureted and the other fuel injected Mooney's. This process will most likely take a year to get finished.

[N601RX]

David,

I would be very interested.  I think there would be a good market for a reasonable priced alternative. From a few of your other post I know you have an interest in this sort of stuff.  Have you considered talking to Russell at SWTA.  He has some nice STC's for the 201 windshield and his own cowling design. They were both reasonable priced. He is no longer producing either of these and might be willing to sell the STC's and moulds.

Something like this would be very nice. I've met the owner before, he might be willing to help with mould design.  They also have lots of experience on how to cool a IO 360. He sells these for $950 and makes a nice profit, but doesn't have to deal with the FAA.  If you could do something like this and get it certfied and keep the price in the 4K range, they would sell very well.

http://www.jamesaircraft.com/Index.html

[danb35]

I'd certainly be interested.  Obviously it's very price-dependent, but it'd be nice to see a good option out there.

[N33GG]

I may be a bit different, but here is my 2 cents...

Simply stated, I will pay a premium for a quality product.  I will not spend any money on a product this is of low quality.  Adequate is not on my check list when it comes to purchases.  Further, just because something is approved or has an STC, doesn't mean it is worthy of going on my airplane.  Squeezing every penny out of a deal is not where I start with any projects, and certainly not when it comes to dealing with an aircraft that I own, fly, and depend on.  If I can't afford to do it right, I just don't do it.  From reading this forum, I understand I may be the exception rather than the rule here.

With all the emphasis on price being expressed here, I would caution and urge you to be careful not to compromise quality too much.  It can be a difficult balancing act!  Good luck in this area.

I am sorry that SWTA is no longer making the 201 mod, as it was a very quality product and I probably would have already purchased one if it were still available.  Visiting with Mr. Stallings in San Marcos would be a good place to start.

[Sabremech]

I assure you quality will not be compromised. Every part that I have made and put through the certification process, with my corporate jet aircraft parts business to date,  has quality and backed up with a lifetime warranty.

[N33GG]

Quote: Sabremech

I assure you quality will not be compromised. Every part that I have made and put through the certification process, with my corporate jet aircraft parts business to date,  has quality and backed up with a lifetime warranty.

[Piloto]

One fabrication option I would consider is injection molding. This is the same process used for making plastic trash cans. There are several material options. There are multiple facilities in the US that will help you with the mold design and fabrication. You do not need to have an expensive manufacturing facility. The injection molding contractor will do the cowlings for you. Contract manufacturing is very common these days and it lowers susbstantially the production costs.

José

 

[Oscar Avalle]

I would be interested... with the caveats expressed by others...

[N601RX]

It seems like the your would be competitor has made the business decision to target mainly insurance jobs with their high prices and have a very low volume as a result. If you take the approach that you are going to sell a quality product at a good price and with the plan of selling several at a reduced profit level I think you will do well. If your setting up your own fiberglass operation, might as well come up with a affordable 1 pc belly also. 

As a reference point I put a fiberglass cowling on my experimental 3 years ago.  The upper and lower half as well as the camco mounting hardware was $700.  That would lead me to believe that they were paying someone around $300-400 to manufacture their cowlings for them. The cost to produce it under a certified environment would be more, but I find it impossible to believe that it is anywhere near what lopriest is charging. 

[Chessieretriever]

I have a '62 Ranger with a Rajay and purchased a used J cowling along with engine mount etc to convert the FW to J using a Mod Works STC. Still in the box in the corner of the hangar as this airplane is our backup and our Rocket has had perfect dispatch in the past year (not the case before that). If you are interested in exploring options pm me.

Thanks, O

[scottfromiowa]

Quote: N6719N

I may be a bit different, but here is my 2 cents...

Simply stated, I will pay a premium for a quality product.  I will not spend any money on a product this is of low quality.  Adequate is not on my check list when it comes to purchases.  Further, just because something is approved or has an STC, doesn't mean it is worthy of going on my airplane.  Squeezing every penny out of a deal is not where I start with any projects, and certainly not when it comes to dealing with an aircraft that I own, fly, and depend on.  If I can't afford to do it right, I just don't do it.  From reading this forum, I understand I may be the exception rather than the rule here.

With all the emphasis on price being expressed here, I would caution and urge you to be careful not to compromise quality too much.  It can be a difficult balancing act!  Good luck in this area.

I am sorry that SWTA is no longer making the 201 mod, as it was a very quality product and I probably would have already purchased one if it were still available.  Visiting with Mr. Stallings in San Marcos would be a good place to start.

[scottfromiowa]

Quote: N6719N

I may be a bit different, but here is my 2 cents...

 Squeezing every penny out of a deal is not where I start with any projects, and certainly not when it comes to dealing with an aircraft that I own, fly, and depend on.  If I can't afford to do it right, I just don't do it.  From reading this forum, I understand I may be the exception rather than the rule here.

[N33GG]

Take a deep breath Scott.  No offense intended here.  There have been many discussions on this board of how to either do things yourself instead of taking your plane to an MSC, or save other costs here and there.  And there are clear cost issues associated with aircraft ownership that drive decisions from adequate to well above adequate.  Further, the definition of adequate and high level maintenance may vary person to person.  I simply err on the side of well above adequate when the opportunity is there.  Cost is not my primary driver. 

Apologies to anyone that might be, has ever been, or ever will be offended.

[rbridges]

Quote: N6719N

Take a deep breath Scott.  No offense intended here.  There have been many discussions on this board of how to either do things yourself instead of taking your plane to an MSC, or save other costs here and there.  And there are clear cost issues associated with aircraft ownership that drive decisions from adequate to well above adequate.  Further, the definition of adequate and high level maintenance may vary person to person.  I simply err on the side of well above adequate when the opportunity is there.  Cost is not my primary driver. 

Apologies to anyone that might be, has ever been, or ever will be offended.

[DaV8or]

Quote: N601RX

Have you considered talking to Russell at SWTA.  He has some nice STC's for the 201 windshield and his own cowling design. They were both reasonable priced. He is no longer producing either of these and might be willing to sell the STC's and moulds.

Something like this would be very nice. I've met the owner before, he might be willing to help with mould design.  They also have lots of experience on how to cool a IO 360. He sells these for $950 and makes a nice profit, but doesn't have to deal with the FAA.  If you could do something like this and get it certfied and keep the price in the 4K range, they would sell very well.

[DaV8or]

Another thought-

MAC is low on capitol and doesn't want stock parts and won't make anything until they have a big patch to do. You want to make 201 cowls, including all the brackets, linkages, baffeling, ect. Maybe you can cooperate and become a subcontractor for those parts for MAC. You get the advantage of working with their engineering, maybe their jigs, fixtures and molds and maybe their FAA blessing and they get you to take all the up front liability of producing and stocking the parts. Maybe to sweeten the deal, you could offer MAC a royalty on the parts you don't sell to them. I know they subcontract to other companies on many of their other parts, why not you too?

[N33GG]

I like the way you're thinking Dave.

[scottfromiowa]

Quote: N6719N

Take a deep breath Scott.  No offense intended here.  There have been many discussions on this board of how to either do things yourself instead of taking your plane to an MSC, or save other costs here and there.  And there are clear cost issues associated with aircraft ownership that drive decisions from adequate to well above adequate.  Further, the definition of adequate and high level maintenance may vary person to person.  I simply err on the side of well above adequate when the opportunity is there.  Cost is not my primary driver. 

Apologies to anyone that might be, has ever been, or ever will be offended.

[fantom]

Quote: scottfromiowa

Why don't you have a LoPresti cowl on your plane?  It is definitely a quality product at a PREMIUM price...