Lasar Aviation Mooney Assurance Program - Really?

[PeteMc]

I just ran across the below link on FB which takes to a Lasar page to sign up for Mooney Assurance.  Thoughts?

Bronze = $200/mo
Silver = $350/mo
Gold = $500/mo
10 year Gold = $25,000

https://www.lasaraviation.com/

[MikeOH]

Thoughts?

Their kids are headed to college on the Mooney Pilot Scholarship plan

[Tom F]

The Mooney Assurance Program was rolled out at MooneyMAX in Branson Mo today.

Looking forward to MMGA

Making Mooney Great Again

 

[IvanP]

I am curious what "exclusive discount" would one get for $6,000 a year? What if you do not need any Mooney parts for 5 years - just flushed $30k donwn the toilet unless you find the "quarterly briefings" (whatever that may be) valuable. 

I am all for helping LASAR stay in business and maintain the fleet, but somehow I fail to see the value propositiion for plane owners here. The site does not offer much in tems of specifics. Looks like "access to portal" that shows what parts are available will now be paid  . Do you have to be a member to buy parts? As some other members observed, the parts link is gone from Lasar's site and since Mooney does not sell parts any more, it seems that we are collectively SOL for any parts needed. 

Not even Rolls Royce dealerships charge monthly fee for the pribvilege of having access to their website   

[Thedude]

Ya this is a very steep insurance policy into a business that could entirely possibly disappear in a couple of years (because that's just how things work with such a small market base).

[Immelman]

So they're selling what? An equity stake in lasar? No? Well what, then? Frankly the website smells of a scam artist.

YGBSM....

 

 

Edited 23 hours ago by Immelman

[tim417]

I want to support Mooney parts production but this value proposition for owners is not compelling at all. $2000/year minimum for extremely nebulous (at best) benefits and no details on what parts or discounts might be available is not compelling. 

[Hank]

2 minutes ago, tim417 said:

I want to support Mooney parts production but this value proposition for owners is not compelling at all. $2000/year minimum for extremely nebulous (at best) benefits and no details on what parts or discounts might be available is not compelling. 

This program is not aimed at Vintage owners. But if you had put several hundred AMUs into buying your Mooney, this proposal might make you feel better about flying it into the future. 

[tim417]

8 minutes ago, Hank said:

This program is not aimed at Vintage owners. But if you had put several hundred AMUs into buying your Mooney, this proposal might make you feel better about flying it into the future. 

I’m confused. So this program is only for owners of modern Mooneys? Even so, there seems to be very scarce information as to specific benefits like what parts will be available right off the bat, what pricing looks like, how much of a discount does each tier get, what production schedule is being proposed, etc., 

I’m not trying to shoot this down. I think there should be more information. It is also concerning and bewildering that parts ordering is completely removed from the Lasar website. 

 

Tim

[1980Mooney]

1 hour ago, Hank said:

This program is not aimed at Vintage owners. But if you had put several hundred AMUs into buying your Mooney, this proposal might make you feel better about flying it into the future. 

 

1 hour ago, tim417 said:

I’m confused. So this program is only for owners of modern Mooneys? Even so, there seems to be very scarce information as to specific benefits like what parts will be available right off the bat, what pricing looks like, how much of a discount does each tier get, what production schedule is being proposed, etc., 

I’m not trying to shoot this down. I think there should be more information. It is also concerning and bewildering that parts ordering is completely removed from the Lasar website. 

 

Tim

I think @Hank is saying that it is "not aimed at" Vintage Owners due to the cost vs. the value of owners' Vintage Mooney's.  Throwing an additional $500/month or $6K/year at a $80K Mooney is harder to justify than throwing the same at a $200K Mooney.  I don't think the program is only for modern Mooney's

The picture on the first page of the "Assurance Program" link shows N3674N, a 1968 M20G Statesman, the same as is on the LASAR webpage.

[Thedude]

Even on $200k planes, an extra $6k a year isn't making sense imo.

[1980Mooney]

2 hours ago, tim417 said:

I want to support Mooney parts production but this value proposition for owners is not compelling at all. $2000/year minimum for extremely nebulous (at best) benefits and no details on what parts or discounts might be available is not compelling. 

 

2 hours ago, tim417 said:

...Even so, there seems to be very scarce information as to specific benefits like what parts will be available right off the bat, what pricing looks like, how much of a discount does each tier get, what production schedule is being proposed, etc., 

.... I think there should be more information. It is also concerning and bewildering that parts ordering is completely removed from the Lasar website. 

So what do other MSC's do?  How do they order parts? - do they have to join the program to see what parts are available/and when they will be available?

And what about the lone Mooney capable A&P that so many of us rely upon for Maintenace and Annuals?  How do they see what parts are available or how do they order them?

• Does this put more burden upon the Owners to scrounge for their parts from LASAR via the "Assurance Program"?

[IvanP]

2 hours ago, Hank said:

This program is not aimed at Vintage owners. But if you had put several hundred AMUs into buying your Mooney, this proposal might make you feel better about flying it into the future. 

Please explain to me how would spending 2-6k a year make me feel better about flying my plane witout getting any tangible benefit for my money? Maybe I am missing something here. This seems to be very much like the various extended waranty offers that I get in my e-mail about my aging cars and home. 

[N201MKTurbo]

In the last 10 years, I have probably spent $300 on Mooney parts. Mostly bushings and wing fuel dials. It seems like a bad deal to spend $25000 to guarantee that I can get a discount on $300 worth of parts. Spending twice as much isn’t such a bad deal.

[1980Mooney]

 

1 hour ago, Thedude said:

Even on $200k planes, an extra $6k a year isn't making sense imo.

Well for those that want more "attention" than the $6K/year Gold Program will bring, there is the 10 years of Gold Program paid up front - You put a lumpsum $25K in LASAR's hand to "anchor your support".   

And does that $25K get you?  Ability to see the parts website....discounts if you actually spend more cash to buy parts......factory tours...."backstage moments at shows like Oshkosh".

But no mention of that money - $200, 350, 500/month, $6K per year or lumpsum of $25K buying any Parts.  Am I missing something?

• Can someone explain this statement?
  • "We're also working on a price-protection stack that combines Member pricing on Mooney-sourced parts with participating MSC discounts where available, so you won't be paying full Retail when the network can do better."
  • What MSC "discounts"?
  • I thought the earlier announcement said that LASAR would be responsible for all parts distribution - to the other MSC's
  • Yet after paying $25K it sounds like you might be paying full retail with no discount

Edited 19 hours ago by 1980Mooney

[PeteMc]

5 hours ago, Tom F said:

The Mooney Assurance Program was rolled out at MooneyMAX in Branson Mo today.

Interesting letter.  But it is still unclear...  If I buy into the "Assurance" Program for $6,000/yr and I need a part that cost $6,000, does Lasar just send it to me?  Or do I pay an additional $6K on top of my "Assurance" payments? 

 

[1980Mooney]

28 minutes ago, PeteMc said:

Interesting letter.  But it is still unclear...  If I buy into the "Assurance" Program for $6,000/yr and I need a part that cost $6,000, does Lasar just send it to me?  Or do I pay an additional $6K on top of my "Assurance" payments? 

 

I think you pay an additional $6,000 less any discount.  I think your original $6,000 you paid simply gives you the “benefit” that you can watch online to see if/when they actually build it.

Edited 18 hours ago by 1980Mooney

[1980Mooney]

4 hours ago, Immelman said:

So they're selling what? An equity stake in lasar? No? Well what, then? Frankly the website smells of a scam artist.

YGBSM....

The last line of the announcement is interesting:

• "we're exploring an option for qualified owners who wish to become shareholders of Mooney."

LASAR keeps saying "Transparency, Transparency".  The second paragraph talks about a "Private Placement Program".  Is Lasar acting as a "broker" to help existing shareholders get out and sell their shares (i.e. money goes into pockets of exiting shareholders").  Or are they acting as a broker to sell new shares of Mooney which puts cash in the pocket of Mooney?  Buying shares in Mooney gets you nothing other than liability.

But importantly it shows that LASAR has no cash to invest in supply chain.  They are using Owner's cash.  "Remember: member funds are held in reserve until we cross the subscriber threshold"

[Marc_B]

Aka we’re looking for venture capital investors. 

[tim417]

I really WANT to support LASAR or anyone who wants to do this in earnest. But with no transparency as to what tangible benefit I am getting for $250/mo minimum, and a real possibility of the entire project failing and disappearing, it’s really difficult to get excited. They need to share more information and provide potential investors (because that’s essentially what we are here) confidence that they will benefit from their hard earned cash. 

[Shadrach]

8 hours ago, tim417 said:

I’m confused. So this program is only for owners of modern Mooneys? Even so, there seems to be very scarce information as to specific benefits like what parts will be available right off the bat, what pricing looks like, how much of a discount does each tier get, what production schedule is being proposed, etc., 

I’m not trying to shoot this down. I think there should be more information. It is also concerning and bewildering that parts ordering is completely removed from the Lasar website. 

Tim

To build on @Hank’s point, owners of vintage Mooneys are accustomed to a reduced level of factory support.

Vintage Mooney owners most certainly chose their aircraft based on operating costs/performance.  I budget about $130 an hour for dry operating cost for 100hrs of flying a year including hangar and insurance. I usually do better than that.

Modest support at a bronze level represents a >15% addition to my annual operating costs. So where is the value proposition?

My sense is that when the new pricing is introduced it will be more clear as to why LASAR believes this is a viable strategy. 

 

[Schllc]

32 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

My sense is that when the new pricing is introduced it will be more clear as to why LASAR

One would hope this is the case, but what a bizarre way to market this idea…

There is literally no explanation of what you actually get for your contribution, shouldn’t that be clear before asking for 25k?

[cbarry]

This is really not surprising except that using the word “assurance” in their program title opens the door to further frustration if and when they are unable to fulfill the customers’ requests.  I say it’s not surprising because more and more of today’s commerce feeds off of access/subscription fees as simply a way in which the company subsidizes their inability to turn a profit otherwise under the  pretense of marketing discounted prices.  
 

On another note, even though the details don’t seem to be completely ironed out yet, I can see a  point when access/program fees may be “offered” to be converted into unwanted shares leading to kicking off a K1 resulting in the shareholder possibly having to report undistributed income.

 

I truly wish them well and at least effort is being made to make good money again (I meant to say make Mooney good again)!

[Hank]

We're supposed to pay them to get priority when we need parts.

We're supposed to pay them to get an undisclosed discount on the parts (when we're allowed to buy them), the "discount" being proportional to how much we pay to be enabled to place an order.

As a retired Vintage Mooney owner who has bought just a few parts (two? three?) from LASAR in 18 years of ownership, I see my Mooney headed for dismantling sooner rather than later. I'm not paying $6000/year for the ability to order and pay for parts. When I reach the point that I need a part that I can't source or fabricate as OPP, well--you don't need to have an A&P license to take an airplane apart.

[bluehighwayflyer]

Between my dad and I we have owned my current Mooney for 43 years.  And I owned another one for 12 years in the interim. We have bought a lot of parts over those years and many of them came from LASAR.  Always new.  Never used.  But that very well might be changing. These aren’t people I want to do business with. It’s not just about the price, either.  It’s about the language and terms of the “deal”.  All of the hallmarks are there.