Retract Gear or Flaps First in a Go Around ?

[donkaye, MCFI]

3 hours ago, Jackk said:

Depends on your flaps settings

What’s your balked landing in the POH/AFM say?

if I was dragging full flaps I wouldn’t want to do a max performance go around still dragging full flaps, I’d probably default to something around whatever your short field takeoff setting is for max lift.

Gear is easy, positive rate gear up 

 

As for pitch changes, don’t skip arm day, I have yet to meet a plane I can’t just push to where I want for as long as it takes to trim, and I don’t consider myself a pro arm wrestler or anything  

 

 For me it would be “go around, flaps XX” -> “positive rate gear up”

my flow would be easing back on the control while adding power and hitting the TOGA (one movement) -> flaps to go around setting -> once positive rate gear up

I haven't flown the Skywagon, but I think all the high wing airplanes I have flown pitch up when flaps are applied and the opposite when flaps are retracted.  Why?  The CG of a high wing airplane is below the drag force vector of the flaps causing a pitch up moment around the CG when flaps are applied.  The opposite for a low wing airplane like the Mooney.  (The exception is the Piper.  Maybe the reason is its stabilator.  I don't know)  At any rate you can't compare the two.  I will say on the 310 HP upgrade to the Acclaim, going to full power on a go around and bringing the flaps up 1st will provide quite a surprise to the uninformed that could easily lead to an LOC accident.

[DCarlton]

5 hours ago, Jerry 5TJ said:

My answer is—neither.  At go-around I prefer to teach “Pitch, Power, Positive Rate, and Pause.” Get stabilized and climbing smoothly before you start reconfiguring.  

I like the emphasis the brief pause provides on positive rate; I may use this.  I've observed myself enough over the years to know that positive rate is something I really need to focus on in a missed approach or go around (as opposed to continuing to fly level like you often do in a pattern).  [will never forget the jet that took off IFR from my home airport several years ago; didn't climb and flew into the power lines; saw the black smoke plume; very sad.]

[PT20J]

For those that like landing with the speed brakes deployed, what to you raise first on a go around?

[donkaye, MCFI]

1 hour ago, PT20J said:

For those that like landing with the speed brakes deployed, what to you raise first on a go around?

You shouldn't be landing with speed brakes deployed.  If you do, I'd hit the speed brake button and raise the gear at the same time.

[dkkim73]

2 hours ago, donkaye, MCFI said:

 

Vlo (going up) is 106 kts for the Acclaim Type S.

Sorry, you're entirely correct. I had Vx in mind when I was typing for some reason... I keep Vx in mind as a waypoint when taking off. I might have been conflating them since Vy is closer to Vlo (going up). Thanks for noticing that!

[Hank]

4 hours ago, Jackk said:

The Mooney has more flap settings than just up or down no?

That depends on your model and year. The electric flaps in my 1970 C are infinitely variable, just hold or bump the switch to put them where I want them. The indicator is marked Up, Takeoff and Landing.

A friend's 75 F has a slider for flaps with only three positions, could not stop between the settings for Up, Takeoff and Landing.

4 hours ago, Ibra said:

Indeed, I was merly comparing clean and full dirty settings, there is no middle sitting but ideally, 1/2 flaps is great in Mooney, not too draggy and has lot of extra lift. 

My C has an indicated position for Takeoff that is.between Full Up and Landing (= Full Down). I use Takeoff before VFR pattern entry or on Instrument Approach as im slowing before the FAF. After that, I bump the flaps and tweak the throttle as required to stay on my desired glide path.

Does your J only have markings for Up and Down, and nothing in between?

[Jackk]

3 hours ago, donkaye, MCFI said:

You shouldn't be landing with speed brakes deployed.  If you do, I'd hit the speed brake button and raise the gear at the same time.

I wouldn’t have those things out below 500’ AGL

[Jackk]

5 hours ago, donkaye, MCFI said:

I haven't flown the Skywagon, but I think all the high wing airplanes I have flown pitch up when flaps are applied and the opposite when flaps are retracted.  Why?  The CG of a high wing airplane is below the drag force vector of the flaps causing a pitch up moment around the CG when flaps are applied.  The opposite for a low wing airplane like the Mooney.  (The exception is the Piper.  Maybe the reason is its stabilator.  I don't know)  At any rate you can't compare the two.  I will say on the 310 HP upgrade to the Acclaim, going to full power on a go around and bringing the flaps up 1st will provide quite a surprise to the uninformed that could easily lead to an LOC accident.

 It might try to, and it’s 300hp with much larger flaps and drooping ailerons, but I just use the elevator to correct

 Being able to manage a max performance to around should be second nature in anything one is PICing

 

[Ibra]

2 hours ago, Hank said:

Does your J only have markings for Up and Down, and nothing in between?

Yes the control pannel has takeoff flaps and take-off and trim marker.

[Hank]

1 hour ago, Ibra said:

Yes the control pannel has takeoff flaps and take-off and trim marker.

Not like this, after landing? I was looking at the Trim settings, had already raised flaps. Flaps are marked Up, Takeoff and Down, but they can be positioned anywhere within the range.

[Ibra]

7 hours ago, Hank said:

Flaps are marked Up, Takeoff and Down, but they can be positioned anywhere within the range

I have the same (with takeoff marker but with continuous positions anywhere in the middle) 

Edited Friday at 06:14 AM by Ibra

[PeteMc]

19 hours ago, Jerry 5TJ said:

My answer is—neither.  At go-around I prefer to teach “Pitch, Power, Positive Rate, and Pause.” Get stabilized and climbing smoothly before you start reconfiguring.  

Okay, so you are now in your stabalized climb.....   Gear or Flaps first????  

[Ibra]

15 hours ago, PT20J said:

For those that like landing with the speed brakes deployed, what to you raise first on a go around?

In Ovation, I don't think they do much under say 80kts?

* They don't make flare or landing shorter, so they should not be deployed. 

* They don't make takeoff longer, so does not matter if they are open or closed. 

They only affect L/D near VNE and don't seem to affect L/D near VS. Then looking at their size, they doesn't seem to change stall speed, I would say Gear & SpeedBreak at the same time on go-around.

Ovation airbreaks have zero effect on "induced drag" at slow speeds near VS, they only matter for "parasite drag" on high speeds near VNE (and to keep engine CHT warmer while on fast & steep descent )

Edited Friday at 07:40 AM by Ibra

[hazek]

On 8/27/2025 at 5:35 PM, donkaye, MCFI said:

It stabilized at---87 knots, the same as with the gear extended.

Okay, this is a good finding that is in favor of your argument.

On 8/27/2025 at 5:35 PM, donkaye, MCFI said:

Due to the significant pitch up when flaps are retracted in Mooneys, especially the long body Mooneys

This I wonder if it is really a point in favor of your argument. Here's my thinking:
If you retract flaps first to T/O flaps, you do so by the definition when you are the slowest in your approach, this causes the pitching moment to be least severe. Then you retract gear which introduces a nose down pitching moment and therefore helps with managing the nose up pitching moment buying you time to retrim. Then you retract the rest of the flaps and retrim easily.

If you retract gear first, you will get a nose down pitching moment and you will accelerate. The consequences of this will be that you might not retrim as aggressively feeling a false sense of security in your pitch trim and when you do retract flaps, especially if you do it in one go, the pitching moment will be larger and more severe due to now accelerated speed. Both combined, so the still nose up trim and larger pitching moment could surprise you and will present you with more difficulty keeping the plane under control.

Is my argument flawed?

In addition, if you keep the gear down, you still have the option to touch down without damage in case you are just above the runway. Also if you retract flaps to flaps T/O you are in exactly the T/O configuration i.e. how you takeoff.

[donkaye, MCFI]

7 hours ago, hazek said:

Okay, this is a good finding that is in favor of your argument.

This I wonder if it is really a point in favor of your argument. Here's my thinking:
If you retract flaps first to T/O flaps, you do so by the definition when you are the slowest in your approach, this causes the pitching moment to be least severe. Then you retract gear which introduces a nose down pitching moment and therefore helps with managing the nose up pitching moment buying you time to retrim. Then you retract the rest of the flaps and retrim easily.

If you retract gear first, you will get a nose down pitching moment and you will accelerate. The consequences of this will be that you might not retrim as aggressively feeling a false sense of security in your pitch trim and when you do retract flaps, especially if you do it in one go, the pitching moment will be larger and more severe due to now accelerated speed. Both combined, so the still nose up trim and larger pitching moment could surprise you and will present you with more difficulty keeping the plane under control.

Is my argument flawed?

In addition, if you keep the gear down, you still have the option to touch down without damage in case you are just above the runway. Also if you retract flaps to flaps T/O you are in exactly the T/O configuration i.e. how you takeoff.

In word, Yes. 1. If there is a nose down pitching moment on gear retraction, then in over 11,000 hours of Mooney time, I've never experienced it.  Even if there was, that would be a good thing because there would be less trim down needed.  2.  If you've committed to a go around, go around.  All you need is to change your decision, NOT have enough runway remaining, and go off the runway.

No matter how you cut it, when full power is added to a Mooney in a go around and flaps are reduced first, passengers are likely to get upset when they see their pilot aggressively trimming down to control the airplane, thinking something is wrong because of their aggressive movements.  Gear up while trimming down with "casual urgency" and when there is a little forward pressure from the yoke, reducing flap deployment to T/O, will not cause passengers possible undue anxiety.

[hazek]

1 hour ago, donkaye, MCFI said:

in over 11,000 hours of Mooney time, I've never experienced it.

Well there is definitely a pitch up moment when you extend the landing gear. You've experienced that, haven't you? So there must be the opposite moment when you retract, no?

I usually have the one nervous passenger and she has experienced go arounds with me and she doesn't think they look like a big deal, I just confirmed with her. And actually given how much I stress the importance of correctly executing go arounds and the dangers of not doing so she thought it looked rather benign.

[PT20J]

On the M20J, there is a transitory pitch up moment during gear extension that disappears when the gear is fully down.

[Slick Nick]

5 hours ago, PT20J said:

On the M20J, there is a transitory pitch up moment during gear extension that disappears when the gear is fully down.

I’ve noticed that too. Is it aerodynamic in nature or related to the change in C of G?

[PT20J]

1 hour ago, Slick Nick said:

I’ve noticed that too. Is it aerodynamic in nature or related to the change in C of G?

It’s got to be aerodynamic. The only CG change would be the forward movement of the nose gear and that cannot be very significant. Also, I would think that a CG change would cause a need to retrim and this just seems to be a transient effect while the gear is in motion. 

[Hank]

7 hours ago, PT20J said:

On the M20J, there is a transitory pitch up moment during gear extension that disappears when the gear is fully down.

The gear in my C moves too quickly for me to notice anything. But I do feel a small thump as they lock Down.

[Ibra]

7 hours ago, PT20J said:

and this just seems to be a transient effect while the gear is in motion. 

It's very tanasient and hardly measurable, it falls under "too small to bother or notice"...

I wonder if it's aerodynamic that relates to the relative angle over which main wheels and front wheel move? or layout of doors? all 3 wheels are connected to same piece, they go in sync but move in 3 different directions  

I would have blamed some mysterious gyroscopic mouvement (from high spinning wheels), however, we usually press the breaks before retracting...
 

Edited yesterday at 10:12 AM by Ibra

[201er]

On 8/27/2025 at 11:35 AM, donkaye, MCFI said:

At 4,500 feet I slowed the plane to a steady 105 knots ( 5 knots below maximum flap extension speed), engaged the autopilot in altitude hold mode and extended the gear.   The plane stabilized at 87 knots for a drag reduction of 18 knots.  I retracted the gear and returned to a stabilized 105 knots.  I then extended full flaps and waited see where the airspeed would stabilize.  It stabilized at---87 knots, the same as with the gear extended.

 

I think this is a flawed experiment because the speed at which it was done is not representative of the speed in the initial moments of a go-around. At go around speeds you are likely dealing with a greater amount of induced drag caused by the change in wing camber because of the flaps in addition to the parasitic drag.

On 8/27/2025 at 11:35 AM, donkaye, MCFI said:

Demonstrated conclusion:  Confirming my earlier statement, for safety reasons, the gear should be retracted while trimming down before the flaps are retracted in a Mooney go around.

Or perhaps it’s just the conclusion that is flawed. If parasitic drag between wing flap or gear retraction at higher speeds is determined to be comparable, then it is best to retract flaps first because they will have a greater contribution of total drag at lower speed when you factor in higher induced drag in addition to the parasitic.

Plus flaps first is a better habit if ever switching to most other airplanes.

[201er]

A more accurate test would be to takeoff with full flaps and gear down. On one flight, retract the flaps fully while leaving the gear down, on the second retract flaps to takeoff while leaving the gear down, and on the third retract the gear while leaving the flaps full. Rotate and climb at the same typical speed. Note the altitude when crossing the end of the runway.

This would be way more realistic because after all the goal in a go-around is to get away from the ground as soon as possible, particularly on a short runway, and not about speed.

[EricJ]

Another thing that happens when the gear is up is the gear doors and the wheels plug the big holes under the wing.   That helps a lot with climb, which is desirable on a go-around.

[Ibra]

A better comparison is "raising the flaps first' vs. "raising gear first" at full power say between VS0 and VS1, say between 55kts-65kts when flying above 4000ft and see what happens? 

At 85kts, the exact order does not matter that much, go-around at these speeds are non event. In the other hand, things are more quirky between 50kts and 70kts, this is usually associated with balked landing, or botched flare, or bounce: the main risk is raising flaps between VS0 and VS1, this guarantee infinite drag and aircraft won't climb even with full power.

Once past 85kts, one can do whatever they want with pitch, controls, configs...in any order.

Under VS1 under 50ft, lot of brain and precise flying is required (one has already run out of speed & altitude)

Personally, I would keep the flaps where they are until I have enough speed and brain. If I can't get enough speed well past VS1 in ground effect (after raising the gear), I would pull the mixture and cut the loss.

Go-around from 85kts above 100ft agl are non-event, I can raise gear, falps and nose at the same time and it works ! 

Edited 23 hours ago by Ibra