MOSAIC impact if any on legacy Mooney fleet

[Rusty Pilot]

Mooney's certainly meet some of the new MOSAIC requirements, but will any of our Mooney Aircraft be considered LSA under the new rules?  TIA for sharing your thoughts and knowledge on the subject.

[M20F]

Here are a whole bunch of thoughts. 
 

 

[Hank]

57 minutes ago, Rusty Pilot said:

will any of our Mooney Aircraft be considered LSA under the new rules?

No, our Mooneys will not magically become LSA aircraft, but Sport Pilots will be able to fly them with additional training (constant speed props and retractable landing gear) with no medical. 

They will be limited to two people an 10,000 msl, which covers most of my flying.

[Flyler]

I can see this being a real saving grace for some pilots who might otherwise be forced to give up their Mooney due to medical issues.  It also gives a more clear pathway for aging pilots who just want to keep in the air for fun.  Expanding the LSA category will probably yield some really awesome new aircraft in the coming years as well.

So I think for Mooney specifically, it might help prevent some Mooney drivers from being kicked out of their beloved airplanes too soon.

[PeterRus]

The LSA is an aircraft category for airworthiness certification. All Moooneys were certified in the normal a/c category. 

However if a pilot holds a sport certification, s/he can fly (some? all?) Mooneys.

Edited July 23 by PeterRus

[Jackk]

https://www.eaa.org/eaa/advocacy/top-issues/mosaic-aircraft-certificate
 

Only if the clean stall speed is at or below 59kts

 

”With MOSAIC, the weight limitation is removed. GONE! In its place is a new set of limitations; the primary limitation will now be a “clean” stall speed (VS1) of 59 knots calibrated airspeed. Aircraft with up to four seats are now allowed, although sport pilots will still be limited to one passenger. Sport pilots are also now allowed to fly aircraft with controllable-pitch propellers and retractable landing gear, with the appropriate training and endorsements.”

[PeterRus]

That brings up another question... The clean stall speed is 63 knots for 2900 lbs (LSA pilot cannot fly) and 59 knots or slower with weight 2740 lbs or less.. 

Edited July 23 by PeterRus

[TangoTango]

27 minutes ago, PeterRus said:

That brings up another question... The clean stall speed is 63 knots for 2900 lbs (LSA pilot cannot fly) and 59 knots or slower with weight 2740 lbs or less.. 

I wonder how much testing would be required for a paper STC to reduce max gross on the 2900# birds back down to 2740#?

Ultimately though, I don't expect I would be interested in such an STC even if it were available. Since I've already held a third class, I could always just downgrade to Basic Med. Basic Med is so easy to get signed off on, I'm not sure I would ever accept the Sport Pilot restrictions in order to fly on a driver's license only.

Maybe it would be useful to a new pilot who wants to start without ever having to get a third class medical? Learn to fly on a Sport Pilot + Driver's License, buy a 2740# Mooney when you're ready. That wouldn't be the worst idea for the right kind of person. I could see it increasing the popularity of Sport Pilot licenses.

[EricJ]

4 hours ago, PeterRus said:

That brings up another question... The clean stall speed is 63 knots for 2900 lbs (LSA pilot cannot fly) and 59 knots or slower with weight 2740 lbs or less.. 

Vs1 on my 2740 lb J model is 63 knots.   

[AndreiC]

Does being a private pilot automatically confer you the rights to act as sport pilot? That could be useful to someone who has a temporary problem with their medical, say they went to their AME not thinking much about it and got declined. At that point they cannot get a BasicMed, but if I understand it correctly they could still fly a (say) short body Mooney with one passenger, below 10k feet. Is this correct?

(My E model seems to check all the boxes, 2575 gross and 58 kts VS1.)

[mhrivnak]

A private pilot who lets their medical lapse could fly under "sport pilot rules" in an airplane that meets the new requirements (59KCAS VS1, etc.). Anecdotally, none of the three M20Js I have access to would qualify based on VS1. They are from years 1984, 1990, and 1993.

https://www.eaa.org/eaa/aviation-interests/light-sport-aircraft/getting-started-in-lsa/become-a-sport-pilot-and-fly-light-sport-aircraft/existing-pilots-becoming-sport-pilots

But importantly: "Existing pilots, including previous student pilots, who have had their most recent FAA medical certificate application denied, suspended, or revoked by the FAA are not allowed to operate using their driver’s license."

 

[EricJ]

23 minutes ago, mhrivnak said:

But importantly: "Existing pilots, including previous student pilots, who have had their most recent FAA medical certificate application denied, suspended, or revoked by the FAA are not allowed to operate using their driver’s license."

So if you're on Basic Med and have a health degradation, the above restriction wouldn't apply, to my understanding.

[Hank]

12 hours ago, EricJ said:

So if you're on Basic Med and have a health degradation, the above restriction wouldn't apply, to my understanding.

It should also not apply if you have Class III and just dont renew it for whatever reason. Just keep on flying, as long as Vs0 <= 59 KCAS

[Jackk]

17 hours ago, AndreiC said:

Does being a private pilot automatically confer you the rights to act as sport pilot? That could be useful to someone who has a temporary problem with their medical, say they went to their AME not thinking much about it and got declined. At that point they cannot get a BasicMed, but if I understand it correctly they could still fly a (say) short body Mooney with one passenger, below 10k feet. Is this correct?

(My E model seems to check all the boxes, 2575 gross and 58 kts VS1.)

Yup

 

Just as a ATP I can let my class 1 turn to a class 2 and fly as a CPL, then let that fall to a class 3 and fly as a PPL, I could also let my class 3 expire, not go basic, and fly as a SPL on my “drivers license medical”

 

My certificate still says ATP, but with a drivers license medical I would only be able to exercise sport pilot privileges.

 

Capt obvious PSA for most..

1

IF you ever get your medical suspended/revoked/DENIED you can NOT fly as a ATP,CPL,PPL OR SPL

2

Always preflight yourself before going to a AME, I’ll check my BP, pulse, print up some eye charts, even do a “EKG” with a consumer product for whatever that’s worth before I go in, and that’s as a very healthy young guy.  This all takes me like <10min of my day 

3

If you have had a medical and don’t fly for work, or NEED a class 1/2/3, I’d highly recommend just going basic, regardless of your health or age.

 
If you ever have the unfortunate chance to see how the proverbial sausage is made at FAA “medical” you’d agree.

The FAA won’t follow modern evidence based medicine, and are so backwards even our politicians are sick of their crap.

  Basic was forced on the FAA for a VERY good reason 

 

Edited July 24 by Jackk

[Hank]

6 hours ago, Jackk said:

f you have had a medical and don’t fly for work, or NEED a class 1/2/3, I’d highly recommend just going basic, regardless of your health or age.

This is what I did, because I didn't like sitting in the pediatricians waiting room surrounded by sick children too young to understand the concept of covering your mouth when you cough . . . And he was usually running way behind, often more than an hour.