M20M Gear Up at Gillespie County airport - T82

[MikeOH]

15 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

A Huge number of fasteners.

And, how many rivets need to be drilled out when removing the tail? Seems like that would be a LOT of fasteners!

[Hank]

On 6/8/2025 at 12:42 PM, MikeOH said:

Curious why it is more work to remove the wing than the tail section.  Seems like both are going to require flight control tube disassembly and disconnecting wiring.  Sure, you have to drain the tanks and disconnect fuel lines for the wing, but drilling out what has to be quite few rivets (without damaging the holes), then later having to align/jig and rivet it all back together for the tail would appear to be a lot more work than R&R the few bolts holding the wing on.

What am I missing?

 

13 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

A Huge number of fasteners.

And in the wing:  landing gear mechanism; fuel lines; pitot static tubes; pitot heat; wing tip lights; aileron push rods (2); flap mechanism (2); etc. Then for transport, you have to support the fuselage because the main gear are gone but the nose gear is there, and you have to support the wing somehow with the main gear and without it moving 

For the tail:  disconnect elevator push rod (1); rudder push rod (1); tail trim jack screw (1); rear indicator light (1). And drill out the rivets. The fuselage sits on the wheels, and you need a small cradle for the tail.

[A64Pilot]

Just now, MikeOH said:

And, how many rivets need to be drilled out when removing the tail? Seems like that would be a LOT of fasteners!

I have not done it, but think it wouldn’t be that bad really, nothing compared to dis-mounting the wings. Even supporting things while you did would be hard I think, then you have to have some kind of lifting device to lift the fuselage off of the wings.

Takes about an hour to remove the wings on my C-140, what takes the longest is draining the tanks. Two bolts hold tge wing on, then from memory seven for the strut? Two on each end and three for the jury strut.

[MikeOH]

Just now, A64Pilot said:

I have not done it, but think it wouldn’t be that bad really, nothing compared to dis-mounting the wings. Even supporting things while you did would be hard I think, then you have to have some kind of lifting device to lift the fuselage off of the wings.

Takes about an hour to remove the wings on my C-140, what takes the longest is draining the tanks. Two bolts hold tge wing on, then from memory seven for the strut? Two on each end and three for the jury strut.

Yeah, I have not done it, either!  Not ever having drilled rivets is probably swaying me towards removing the wing.  Also, the other factor is I have a  hangar neighbor who is restoring a few Mooneys.  He has trailered a couple of them back; he always has removed the wings.  I'll have to ask him why he didn't take off the tail.

[Fly Boomer]

3 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

Takes about an hour to remove the wings on my C-140

Call Maxwell.  Tell him how easy it is on a 140.  He might learn something.

[Hank]

10 minutes ago, MikeOH said:

And, how many rivets need to be drilled out when removing the tail? Seems like that would be a LOT of fasteners!

They're easy to count when you walk up to the plane. Remove the radio compartment door and disconnect the jack screw. Remove the little tapered pieces under the tail like you do for annual and disconnect push rods and tail light. Slide a cradle underneath and drill away.

To even see the wing fasteners, you'd need to remove the belly panel(s), all seats and the floor carpet. Don't know if you need to remove the sidewall panels or not, I'm not familiar with where the fasteners are. 

[Hank]

7 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

Takes about an hour to remove the wings on my C-140, what takes the longest is draining the tanks. Two bolts hold tge wing on, then from memory seven for the strut? Two on each end and three for the jury strut.

Irrelevant. Each Cessna wing panel is removed separately, and can easily be supported while doing so. Pulling the wing off of a Mooney, after everything is disconnected  and the wing is cradled, you need to lift the entire fuselage, engine and propeller off of the wing, then immediately support it, too. I'm not that strong . . .

[Pinecone]

And it is not that many rivets.  You are not disassembling the tail, just drilling out the one row around the tail cone

[MikeOH]

1 hour ago, Pinecone said:

just drilling out the one row around the tail cone

Somehow, now knowing that the tail of my plane is ONLY held on by a single row of rivets is NOT comforting!

[KSMooniac]

1 hour ago, MikeOH said:

Somehow, now knowing that the tail of my plane is ONLY held on by a single row of rivets is NOT comforting!

That single row of rivets around the large cross-section of the tailcone/cabin joint provides a LOT of structural capability, actually.  And the loads from the tail aren't enormous either... it obviously works well enough with the vast fleet history.

I removed the tailcone from my salvage plane long ago... drilling out the rivets isn't awful at all once you get some practice.  Dealing with the sealant in the joint was a bit more difficult, but I didn't use heat like I should have to make it easier.  I completely agree with the Maxwell method vs. removing the wing.  Avoid that if at all possible to save time on the back end.

[Hank]

6 hours ago, MikeOH said:

Somehow, now knowing that the tail of my plane is ONLY held on by a single row of rivets is NOT comforting!

No, no, no! You're forgetting about the four 1/4" bolts at the trimming hinge that we all had to inspect a few years ago . . .