First Plane Purchase Questions- Open to Advice!

[tbenton1]

Good Evening, first post, new member, excited to join the Mooney Family! 

Quick intro and background: My name is Travis and I just finished my PPL and IR last year, started in January 24 and passed my instrument ride right before Christmas, all in a rented 172 out KGVL. I've got right at 150 hours and I'm ready to buy my first plane and looking closely at Mooney's especially J models. My mission is regional flights for fun and business around the SE, maintaining instrument currency/proficiency, and sharing the joy of flight. I have a wife and 3 kids, 11,8,1; I really wanted a 6 place to take family trips, but I can't justify the acquisition cost, maintenance and operating costs on the 6 place planes I was looking at (A36, 210, 206). After an honest conversation with my family, I don't think we'll be taking too many family trips until I've got more time, finances, and our youngest is old enough to travel. So, the compromise is a 4 place for now with the goal of building time/experience to transition to an A36 at some point and the M20 E,F,J models seem to be the best value and lowest ownership costs I have found. To top it off, my Dad was in a club out of PDK in the 90's and my earliest flights with him were in an M20J and I've always loved the lines on a Mooney!

I did all of my IR training in a G1000 172 and my PPL was behind Dual G5's, GNX-375 and a GFC-500. I'm looking for a J model with at least dual G5s and a GFC-500, but planning to upgrade whatever I find with a decent suite of modern Garmin avionics. 

Questions:

1. Should I engage a broker to help me find and purchase my first plane? Any recommendations in North Georgia/Atlanta Area? How should I initiate this process now that I have decided to buy?
2. If given the choice, would you rather find the perfect airframe, power plant, or avionics? What is the order of priority and why? What upgrade is easier/quicker to complete; a panel upgrade or an engine/prop overhaul? 
3. As I compare different planes, I'm trying to normalize the pricing by budgeting for panel upgrades, engine/prop overhaul, interior upgrades and paint. I've done some research and found some rough numbers, please let me know if I'm off base, and let me know how I should be comparing prices from plane to plane. 
   1. Engine Overhaul: $40K for reman engine plus $20K for install/consumables/unforeseens - $60K total
   2. Prop Overhaul: $20K for new prop or $5K for overhaul including governor
   3. Avionics: $75-100K, varies widely, based on my goal for a 10" G3X w/ EIS, GI-275 Backup, GTN-750xi, GTN-650xi, GMA-350, GTX-345, GFC-500
   4. Interior: $10-15K for seats, carpets and refresh on the plastics
   5. Paint: $20K for strip and repaint
4. I've read many people recommend finding a mechanic before you buy a plane, any recommendations for Mooney A&Ps in the North Georgia/Atlanta Area? 
5. Lastly - if you know of anyone with a J model in North Georgia looking to sell, take on a new partner, or form a partnership, please let me know! I'm not on Facebook or social media, but if there's value to networking please let me know what FB groups I should be looking into.

Thanks in advance for all the help, looking foward to learning from this community!

Travis Benton, KGVL Gainesville, GA

 

 

[Fly Boomer]

3 minutes ago, tbenton1 said:

Thanks in advance for all the help, looking foward to learning from this community!

You will get a lot of responses.  I would suggest getting a hangar as soon as possible -- before the airplane is a good idea.

[Schllc]

A J may be a lower acquisition cost, but not sure maintaining an older plane is going to be that much cheaper than a newer plane.

If you look at hours flown over miles, the ovation is probably not much more to own. 
I am not suggesting they are the same, just that they aren’t going to be as far apart as one would think.  

[Hank]

Welcome aboard, Travis.

The Mooney broker with the best reputation is Jimmy Garrison & the Maxwells. Used to be All American Aircraft, I forget the new name after they merged and moved to Longview, TX, KGGG.

Joey Cole in Dalton, KDNN, is a Mooney Service Center with a great reputation. He has done good work for me in the past. It's a pretty short flight from Gainesville to Dalton.

A critical part of buying an airplane is the Pre Purchase Inspection. Note that there is no standard for this work, whoever you hire will do whatever you want, and likely  not do whatever you forget to ask for. Make sure your PPI person has not been involved in maintaining the plane you want inspected. 

By the time i had close to 100 hours in my C, flying an A36 was easy, but the Bo was both faster and thirstier. Then again, it was 285 hp compared to my 180 hp, so not surprising. 

Have fun, and fly safe!

 

[Danb]

BTW merged into GMAX I believe 

D

[C.J.]

3 hours ago, tbenton1 said:

Questions:

1. Should I engage a broker to help me find and purchase my first plane? Any recommendations in North Georgia/Atlanta Area? How should I initiate this process now that I have decided to buy?
2. If given the choice, would you rather find the perfect airframe, power plant, or avionics? What is the order of priority and why? What upgrade is easier/quicker to complete; a panel upgrade or an engine/prop overhaul? 
3. As I compare different planes, I'm trying to normalize the pricing by budgeting for panel upgrades, engine/prop overhaul, interior upgrades and paint. I've done some research and found some rough numbers, please let me know if I'm off base, and let me know how I should be comparing prices from plane to plane. 
   1. Engine Overhaul: $40K for reman engine plus $20K for install/consumables/unforeseens - $60K total
   2. Prop Overhaul: $20K for new prop or $5K for overhaul including governor
   3. Avionics: $75-100K, varies widely, based on my goal for a 10" G3X w/ EIS, GI-275 Backup, GTN-750xi, GTN-650xi, GMA-350, GTX-345, GFC-500
   4. Interior: $10-15K for seats, carpets and refresh on the plastics
   5. Paint: $20K for strip and repaint

 

If I had to do it all over again, I'd use broker Jimmy Garrison to find an E, F or J with avionics as close as possible to what I really wanted.

Upgrading avionics was a major test in patience. That said, I REALLY like what I chose for my new panel.

As for a new prop, $$$$$ would depend on 2 blades versus 3, scimitar or composite.

Overhauled prop governor in 10/2022 - $420 (Aircraft Accessories of Oklahoma) plus $1500 labor to remove/install.

Overhauled Hartzell 2 blade prop 09/2023 - $3300 (H&H Propeller Service) plus $400 labor to remove/install.

$20K seems way too low for a high-quality job. My choices were Hawk @ KZPH or Boss @ KRUQ.  Boss' quote was $29,500 for everything with an overall white base coat plus 2 trim colors (no red or metallic) with a very simple paint scheme. The lead-time was 18 months & down time was 10 weeks.

[Ragsf15e]

3 hours ago, tbenton1 said:

Good Evening, first post, new member, excited to join the Mooney Family! 

Quick intro and background: My name is Travis and I just finished my PPL and IR last year, started in January 24 and passed my instrument ride right before Christmas, all in a rented 172 out KGVL. I've got right at 150 hours and I'm ready to buy my first plane and looking closely at Mooney's especially J models. My mission is regional flights for fun and business around the SE, maintaining instrument currency/proficiency, and sharing the joy of flight. I have a wife and 3 kids, 11,8,1; I really wanted a 6 place to take family trips, but I can't justify the acquisition cost, maintenance and operating costs on the 6 place planes I was looking at (A36, 210, 206). After an honest conversation with my family, I don't think we'll be taking too many family trips until I've got more time, finances, and our youngest is old enough to travel. So, the compromise is a 4 place for now with the goal of building time/experience to transition to an A36 at some point and the M20 E,F,J models seem to be the best value and lowest ownership costs I have found. To top it off, my Dad was in a club out of PDK in the 90's and my earliest flights with him were in an M20J and I've always loved the lines on a Mooney!

I did all of my IR training in a G1000 172 and my PPL was behind Dual G5's, GNX-375 and a GFC-500. I'm looking for a J model with at least dual G5s and a GFC-500, but planning to upgrade whatever I find with a decent suite of modern Garmin avionics. 

Questions:

1. Should I engage a broker to help me find and purchase my first plane? Any recommendations in North Georgia/Atlanta Area? How should I initiate this process now that I have decided to buy?
2. If given the choice, would you rather find the perfect airframe, power plant, or avionics? What is the order of priority and why? What upgrade is easier/quicker to complete; a panel upgrade or an engine/prop overhaul? 
3. As I compare different planes, I'm trying to normalize the pricing by budgeting for panel upgrades, engine/prop overhaul, interior upgrades and paint. I've done some research and found some rough numbers, please let me know if I'm off base, and let me know how I should be comparing prices from plane to plane. 
   1. Engine Overhaul: $40K for reman engine plus $20K for install/consumables/unforeseens - $60K total
   2. Prop Overhaul: $20K for new prop or $5K for overhaul including governor
   3. Avionics: $75-100K, varies widely, based on my goal for a 10" G3X w/ EIS, GI-275 Backup, GTN-750xi, GTN-650xi, GMA-350, GTX-345, GFC-500
   4. Interior: $10-15K for seats, carpets and refresh on the plastics
   5. Paint: $20K for strip and repaint
4. I've read many people recommend finding a mechanic before you buy a plane, any recommendations for Mooney A&Ps in the North Georgia/Atlanta Area? 
5. Lastly - if you know of anyone with a J model in North Georgia looking to sell, take on a new partner, or form a partnership, please let me know! I'm not on Facebook or social media, but if there's value to networking please let me know what FB groups I should be looking into.

Thanks in advance for all the help, looking foward to learning from this community!

Travis Benton, KGVL Gainesville, GA

 

 

Ha!  Your youngest is old enough for a plane flight right now!  I had my twins (now 9) in our F from ~4 months old.  You will need to protect their hearing and make them and yourself comfortable, but it’s not hard!  We made 525nm non stop flights to grandmas several times a year.  Kids sat in back in their carseats (facing forward) until they were about 4.  Your wife could sit in the back with your one year old right now though as mine does now.  Your 8 year old can co pilot. Let me know if you have questions about flying with kids!  We are all over the northwest in our mooney every summer.  

Yes, you should be careful with your inexperience, but some strict personal minimums (maybe day vfr with the family for now), and you’ll be fine.  Remember that you always need the flexibility to cancel your flight and take the airlines.  Always travel in the morning before the thunderstorms and turbulence for safety and comfort (of your family).

So, if you’re going to travel with kids, know that they grow.  Buy an airplane now that you guys can use when they are much bigger.  You want an F, J or Ovation/Eagle with a good useful load of around 1030lbs or better.  That gives room for everyone and weight for 4 of you (not 4 adults) plus 120 lbs of baggage and enough fuel to go pretty far.  Many F models can do this.  Some J models can, but many have lower useful load.  With nice avionics comes more useful load (they are light).

 

[1980Mooney]

3 hours ago, tbenton1 said:

Good Evening, first post, new member, excited to join the Mooney Family! 

Quick intro and background: My name is Travis and I just finished my PPL and IR last year, started in January 24 and passed my instrument ride right before Christmas, all in a rented 172 out KGVL. I've got right at 150 hours and I'm ready to buy my first plane and looking closely at Mooney's especially J models. My mission is regional flights for fun and business around the SE, maintaining instrument currency/proficiency, and sharing the joy of flight. I have a wife and 3 kids, 11,8,1; I really wanted a 6 place to take family trips, but I can't justify the acquisition cost, maintenance and operating costs on the 6 place planes I was looking at (A36, 210, 206). After an honest conversation with my family, I don't think we'll be taking too many family trips until I've got more time, finances, and our youngest is old enough to travel. So, the compromise is a 4 place for now with the goal of building time/experience to transition to an A36 at some point and the M20 E,F,J models seem to be the best value and lowest ownership costs I have found. To top it off, my Dad was in a club out of PDK in the 90's and my earliest flights with him were in an M20J and I've always loved the lines on a Mooney!

I did all of my IR training in a G1000 172 and my PPL was behind Dual G5's, GNX-375 and a GFC-500. I'm looking for a J model with at least dual G5s and a GFC-500, but planning to upgrade whatever I find with a decent suite of modern Garmin avionics. 

Questions:

1. Should I engage a broker to help me find and purchase my first plane? Any recommendations in North Georgia/Atlanta Area? How should I initiate this process now that I have decided to buy?
2. If given the choice, would you rather find the perfect airframe, power plant, or avionics? What is the order of priority and why? What upgrade is easier/quicker to complete; a panel upgrade or an engine/prop overhaul? 
3. As I compare different planes, I'm trying to normalize the pricing by budgeting for panel upgrades, engine/prop overhaul, interior upgrades and paint. I've done some research and found some rough numbers, please let me know if I'm off base, and let me know how I should be comparing prices from plane to plane. 
   1. Engine Overhaul: $40K for reman engine plus $20K for install/consumables/unforeseens - $60K total
   2. Prop Overhaul: $20K for new prop or $5K for overhaul including governor
   3. Avionics: $75-100K, varies widely, based on my goal for a 10" G3X w/ EIS, GI-275 Backup, GTN-750xi, GTN-650xi, GMA-350, GTX-345, GFC-500
   4. Interior: $10-15K for seats, carpets and refresh on the plastics
   5. Paint: $20K for strip and repaint
4. I've read many people recommend finding a mechanic before you buy a plane, any recommendations for Mooney A&Ps in the North Georgia/Atlanta Area? 
5. Lastly - if you know of anyone with a J model in North Georgia looking to sell, take on a new partner, or form a partnership, please let me know! I'm not on Facebook or social media, but if there's value to networking please let me know what FB groups I should be looking into.

Thanks in advance for all the help, looking foward to learning from this community!

Travis Benton, KGVL Gainesville, GA

 

1 hour ago, C.J. said:

If I had to do it all over again, I'd use broker Jimmy Garrison to find an E, F or J with avionics as close as possible to what I really wanted.

Upgrading avionics was a major test in patience. That said, I REALLY like what I chose for my new panel.

As for a new prop, $$$$$ would depend on 2 blades versus 3, scimitar or composite.

Overhauled prop governor in 10/2022 - $420 (Aircraft Accessories of Oklahoma) plus $1500 labor to remove/install.

Overhauled Hartzell 2 blade prop 09/2023 - $3300 (H&H Propeller Service) plus $400 labor to remove/install.

$20K seems way too low for a high-quality job. My choices were Hawk @ KZPH or Boss @ KRUQ.  Boss' quote was $29,500 for everything with an overall white base coat plus 2 trim colors (no red or metallic) with a very simple paint scheme. The lead-time was 18 months & down time was 10 weeks.

Go to the KGVL City website.  The good news is that the hangars are cheap at only $256/mo but they posted that the average waitlist time is 6 years!

Lee Gilmer Memorial Airport | Gainesville, GA

You are not going to get a Factory Rebuilt Lycoming for $40K.   More like $55K

You have missed a cost that unfortunately is more common with Mooney's - the cost to reseal leaking wetwing fuel tanks.  Add $12K.  

[Hank]

10 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

So, if you’re going to travel with kids, know that they grow.  Buy an airplane now that you guys can use when they are much bigger.  You want an F, J or Ovation/Eagle with a good useful load of around 1030lbs or better.  That gives room for everyone and weight for 4 of you (not 4 adults) plus 120 lbs of baggage and enough fuel to go pretty far.  Many F models can do this.  Some J models can, but many have lower useful load.  With nice avionics comes more useful load (they are light).

This is good advice. My C has 970 lb useful load, including 300 lb Full Fuel, but there's not enough back seat or luggage space for a family. It travels great with 2 people, easily having 5-1/2 hours' fuel.

F & J have an extra 5" each of baggage space and back seat legroom,  but the front seats are all the same. Remember to calculate required fuel plus reserves and subtract from useful load; F & J carry 64 gal = 384 lb, Ovation (R) and Eagle (S) fuel capacities vary up to 102 or 130 gallons (612 to 780 lb fuel), so it won't always work flying the family with full fuel. The R & S also have more additional baggage space.

Old radios and avionics are heavy, the new solid state ones are light, so a glass panel will give you back useful load, especially if you have the shop remove and weigh up all of the old wiring.

[dkkim73]

23 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

Ha!  Your youngest is old enough for a plane flight right now!  

I meant to reply earlier this afternoon when reading in haste and mention @Ragsf15e given I've seen some photos showing happy kids in his plane.

I regret not flying with my kids when they were that age. 

I have memories and pics of flying with my eldest at 2 yrs old with my wife several states cross-country in club rentals, and then there was a huge hiatus until I took that same child up at age 20 in my own plane at last. "When I get time and money" etc etc. We did other fun stuff that built memories like backpacking, building out a small homestead orchard, short ski trips, projects, etc. But I think the flying would have been more magical if I'd not hung up the hat and waited. Now they're politely interested but it's not the same child-like openness and wonder. 

So maybe find a way to do it sooner, and in stages. 

On the plane specifics, I decided I needed a turbo early on  (except for considering the Ovation) and went long-body for a number of reasons. You are in lower terrain and warmer weather, so I can't comment on the models and gotchas specifically from personal experience, but you have more options! 

A few thoughts: 

- no experience I've read makes me think that avionics are as inexpensive and fast to install as "one might think" which means -> shoot for buying something that's mostly configured in a way you are "happy with". Even my limited look at service and add-ons makes me think you're looking at costs and delays. 

- it sounds like you are used to glass and modernity. I get it ("copy gucci" ;)), I like my "old" G1000 much more than the 6-packs I'd flown with prior and feel safer with it in the clag down low in the mountains. But maybe think about needs vs. wants. If you get enough 2D SA on a more basic reliable TSO'ed moving map, do you need a big latest-gen touchscreen? I can't answer that, just worth a thought. 

- @Schllc mentioned not ruling out the Ovation. I saw some *very* nice Ovations with 6-packs and GI275's for a pretty solid price when I was looking year before last. It might be closer to what you want than you realize. And without the older plane maintenance concerns. Again I can't comment as I have only stories I've read here. There are some very , very nice older 4-cyl planes refined over the years by some forum members. 

You asked about airframe, powerplant, and avionics. I would guess you would want to avoid any real airframe issues (corrosion, etc) because that would be a rabbit hole, and you want to fly. So also with catch-up maintenance on unmaintained planes. 

I hired some advice to help me navigate things. Glad I did. I found a lot of helpful conversations gratis as well (e.g. Jimmy Garrison).  I'd suggest talking to people, hiring some advice, and certainly get advice when you go to make a deal if you're doing it on your own for the first time. Some brokers can help you find a plane soup-to-nuts, but fees there can range up to 3%. I think a mix of education and hired advice is good. This forum is chock-full of helpful people. 

HTH

David

 

 

[1980Mooney]

3 hours ago, tbenton1 said:

Good Evening, first post, new member, excited to join the Mooney Family! 

Quick intro and background: My name is Travis and I just finished my PPL and IR last year, started in January 24 and passed my instrument ride right before Christmas, all in a rented 172 out KGVL. I've got right at 150 hours and I'm ready to buy my first plane and looking closely at Mooney's especially J models. My mission is regional flights for fun and business around the SE, maintaining instrument currency/proficiency, and sharing the joy of flight. I have a wife and 3 kids, 11,8,1; I really wanted a 6 place to take family trips, but I can't justify the acquisition cost, maintenance and operating costs on the 6 place planes I was looking at (A36, 210, 206). After an honest conversation with my family, I don't think we'll be taking too many family trips until I've got more time, finances, and our youngest is old enough to travel. So, the compromise is a 4 place for now with the goal of building time/experience to transition to an A36 at some point and the M20 E,F,J models seem to be the best value and lowest ownership costs I have found. To top it off, my Dad was in a club out of PDK in the 90's and my earliest flights with him were in an M20J and I've always loved the lines on a Mooney!

I did all of my IR training in a G1000 172 and my PPL was behind Dual G5's, GNX-375 and a GFC-500. I'm looking for a J model with at least dual G5s and a GFC-500, but planning to upgrade whatever I find with a decent suite of modern Garmin avionics. 

Questions:

1. Should I engage a broker to help me find and purchase my first plane? Any recommendations in North Georgia/Atlanta Area? How should I initiate this process now that I have decided to buy?
2. If given the choice, would you rather find the perfect airframe, power plant, or avionics? What is the order of priority and why? What upgrade is easier/quicker to complete; a panel upgrade or an engine/prop overhaul? 
3. As I compare different planes, I'm trying to normalize the pricing by budgeting for panel upgrades, engine/prop overhaul, interior upgrades and paint. I've done some research and found some rough numbers, please let me know if I'm off base, and let me know how I should be comparing prices from plane to plane. 
   1. Engine Overhaul: $40K for reman engine plus $20K for install/consumables/unforeseens - $60K total
   2. Prop Overhaul: $20K for new prop or $5K for overhaul including governor
   3. Avionics: $75-100K, varies widely, based on my goal for a 10" G3X w/ EIS, GI-275 Backup, GTN-750xi, GTN-650xi, GMA-350, GTX-345, GFC-500
   4. Interior: $10-15K for seats, carpets and refresh on the plastics
   5. Paint: $20K for strip and repaint
4. I've read many people recommend finding a mechanic before you buy a plane, any recommendations for Mooney A&Ps in the North Georgia/Atlanta Area? 
5. Lastly - if you know of anyone with a J model in North Georgia looking to sell, take on a new partner, or form a partnership, please let me know! I'm not on Facebook or social media, but if there's value to networking please let me know what FB groups I should be looking into.

Thanks in advance for all the help, looking foward to learning from this community!

Travis Benton, KGVL Gainesville, GA

There are a couple issues here and I will be direct.

• "I have a wife and 3 kids, 11,8,1;  I really wanted a 6 place to take family trips, but I can't justify the acquisition cost, maintenance and operating costs on the 6 place planes I was looking at (A36, 210, 206).
  • Then you really need to look for a 6-place plane.
    • Look for a partnership to split the cost in half.
  • You also don't need to have a A36, 210, 206 - you can fly a family hauler like a Piper Saratoga or Dakota
    • The years will fly by  (no pun) as you "build time" and the kids will be 15, 12 and 5 before you know it. The idea that they are going to fit in a Mooney with you and your wife is just not realistic.
• "After an honest conversation with my family, I don't think we'll be taking too many family trips until I've got more time, finances, and our youngest is old enough to travel."
  • "Honest" and "don't think we'll be taking too many family trips"  - is there any concern by your family about the risk of flying with you "unitl you have more time/experience"?

This can be circular and self-defeating.  If you don't have a plane that your growing family can fly with you on trips, then you are never going to take trips with your family. If you never take family trips then this is just a toy for you.  Who exactly are you " and sharing the joy of flight" with if you buy a Mooney?  Remember that you can easily be spending $15-19K/yr fixed coast and never even fly your plane -  ($6K/yr for a hangar, $4k/yr for insurance, $4-8++K/yr for Annual, $1K/yr for data plans and apps). The variable cost of flying is on top of that. 

Some families are ok with that kind of spending and the kind of time you will have to devote to it being for you as your hobby.  And let's be clear, there is no way a plane can be economically justified over other forms of travel unless you put a whopping value on your time.  Remember the time spent on the actual flight may be shorter than other options but you have to spend a lot of flying time staying sharp, current - if your hangar is distant then a lot of time commuting to it and maybe a lot of time working on the plane.  But if the entire family is with you using it, then it has a lot more value and the time and cost better justified.  

 

•  

[Ragsf15e]

One other thing, the costs of continued ownership quickly outstrip the purchase price, especially if you buy an “inexpensive” one (ha)! Try to find the nicest, most recent aircraft available at the upper end of your budget without any pending significant needs, but then be ready with a plan if one unexpectedly arises.  So if you’re looking at real nice Js, getting a newer ovation might also be worth considering.

[Ragsf15e]

1 hour ago, Hank said:

This is good advice. My C has 970 lb useful load, including 300 lb Full Fuel, but there's not enough back seat or luggage space for a family. It travels great with 2 people, easily having 5-1/2 hours' fuel.

F & J have an extra 5" each of baggage space and back seat legroom,  but the front seats are all the same. Remember to calculate required fuel plus reserves and subtract from useful load; F & J carry 64 gal = 384 lb, Ovation (R) and Eagle (S) fuel capacities vary up to 102 or 130 gallons (612 to 780 lb fuel), so it won't always work flying the family with full fuel. The R & S also have more additional baggage space.

Old radios and avionics are heavy, the new solid state ones are light, so a glass panel will give you back useful load, especially if you have the shop remove and weigh up all of the old wiring.

As Hank says, the E and C aren’t great for adult backseat passengers.  Id stick to F, J, Ovation.  In an F or J, I would load ~50gallons of fuel for my 525nm xc (KGEG to KCXP) which gave a 1 hour reserve.  Shorter trips obviously could start with less fuel if required.  Bottom line - the M20K 252 I have now can hold ~105 gallons, but I’ll almost never load more than ~60gallons to leave weight for my family and baggage.

[Fritz1]

Lots of moving parts, take your time talk to people, kick some tires, Jimmy Garrison at GmaxAmerican and Richard Similie at Thunderbird are excellent resources, they sell airplanes for a living, while you are kicking tires sniff around in your area for partnership opportunities and develop a budget, my hunch is flying a J model 100h per year is $30-40k depending where you live and how much you pump into avionics and other upgrades, the journey is the destination

[Pinecone]

I also recommend talking to both Jimmy Garrison (I bought my plane through him) and Richard Simile.  

Best is to get the plane closest to your desires over all.   Both for price and for downtime.  You don't want to buy a plane and the first two years you can't fly it due to the work being done.

Your price for avionics is about right.  But will likely creep up a bit.   But I recommend you fly with what ever you have and read the threads here on what other people did.

Others commented on the paint price.   Interior redo is from maybe $5 for the carpet and sear upholstery to do it yourself, to about $12,000 for shop installed Airtex with plastic repair and painting, to $15,000 or more for a custom shop redo.  Gold standard is Aero Comfort, and they are $18,000 not including removal, shipping to/from and reinstall.  They no longer offer these services, but when they did, the total was around $25,000.

FYI, your price for a reman is actually about half that actual cost, and a bit low for an overhaul.  A reman comes with a new logbook and serial number and 0 hours.

So, if you got a plane for free, you are looking at $80,000 for factory reman, $30,000 for paint, $15,000 for interior, $100,000 for avionics, so you have a sweet ride, but have over $225,000 in the plane.   Assuming nothing else needs to be done.

And, this is a plane you are going to outgrow with your family quite quickly.

[exM20K]

Some very good advice here.  That 3rd kid sure is expensive, lol.

If your 80% or 90% trip needs 5 seats, get a Saratoga, c206, Lance, 210, whatever.

Don't miss the opportunity to have GA enriched all of your lives, and travel with a young family brings memories you will all cherish.

The Mooney is a great airplane, but as with all, it has a hole in its game: seats/payload. GA planes are all a set of compromises, which is great as you can find the one most suitable to your 80% mission.

Congrats on the PPL/ IR. 
-dan

[dkkim73]

All right, I'm gonna commit some heresy here:

Have you considered a Cirrus? Since you don't need turbo and presumably not FIKI, some older Cirri might be a consideration. Why?

• if there is family reticence based on safety, the somewhat simpler ops and parachute might be reassuring
• bigger interior with more car-like modern look is more inviting to some non-flyers (I say this largely b/c the topic of interiors was mentioned, so seems you're factoring that in)
• usually more useful load I think
• most of them are already glass

I think there is a timeshare Cirrus org or two in the Southeast, as well.

I also thought the Saratoga suggestion was worth considering. It's only missing wood panels to be a station wagon, but it seems like a real load-hauler and I haven't heard anything bad about their flight characteristics. There's one at my FBO and I eye the cargo space from time to time...

HTH!

D

 

[TangoTango]

13 minutes ago, exM20K said:

That 3rd kid sure is expensive, lol.

We have an agreement in place: If she has a third kid, I get to upgrade to a six place airplane.  

Edited Tuesday at 03:15 PM by TangoTango

[Fly Boomer]

17 hours ago, tbenton1 said:

Travis Benton, KGVL Gainesville, GA

You will get a flood of advice, but this line from @Hank above is a golden nugget (emphasis mine):

"Note that there is no standard for this work [pre-purchase inspection], whoever you hire will do whatever you want, and likely not do whatever you forget to ask for."

 

 

[NickG]

So I'll chime in here.

I love my Ovation 3. IMO opinion there's not a better plane out there (of course, that's IMO!). It's not cheap. Maintenance is expensive. Speedbrakes, glass panel, TKS etc etc look far beyond the purchase price at what it will cost you.

I wasn't originally looking at a Mooney  - I was convinced I needed a bird that could haul me, my wife and occasionally an adult kid or two as we visited family between Vegas, Texas, Oregon and Denver. Luckily, my wife disabused me of that notion very quickly and we fly the O3 on long XC often, the two of us and our 2 dogs. it's tight. Period. I couldn't imagine taking my wife, 3 small kids and baggage in it. Even though I have a 1100# UL the space is tight.

Best plane for your mission? Price/functionality is probably a Saratoga Turbo SP (early model) or a Turbo Lance. Plenty of space, useful load and a lower starting price point. Make sure you get the ones with the intercooler mod.

If you do get a Mooney and can adjust your mission, you'll love it - whichever one you choose. 

[Yetti]

12 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

One other thing, the costs of continued ownership quickly outstrip the purchase price, especially if you buy an “inexpensive” one (ha)! Try to find the nicest, most recent aircraft available at the upper end of your budget without any pending significant needs, but then be ready with a plan if one unexpectedly arises.  So if you’re looking at real nice Js, getting a newer ovation might also be worth considering.

This.    What I will say is have about $10K in the bank to start with after you bring the plane home.    Also are you buying a plane to fly or are you buying a plane to upgrade.   Those are two different things.

[MikeOH]

Regardless of what you buy, for the price range being discussed it's going to be USED airplane (25 - 50 years!).  As such, I offer my standard advice: Make sure the plane has been recently and continuously flown; ideally, 100 hours/year, but at least 50.  What you'd like is a plane that is being sold because the owner is trading up, not the guy that lost his medical 5 years ago and the plane has been sitting since! Accept that a pre-buy is NOT going to find everything; even an annual.  Consistent and recent use is the best sign the plane is in decent shape.

It sounds like you want to FLY a plane, not WAIT around and spend money to get it fixed or upgraded to a reliable 'what you want' aircraft.  Choose wisely.

[dkkim73]

3 hours ago, TangoTango said:

We have an agreement in place: If she has a third kid, I get to upgrade to a six place airplane.  

Everybody wins.

 

[tbenton1]

Wow! Thank you all for such a warm welcome and awesome advice. I want to reply to each post, but will share some common feedback I'm hearing. 

First, the third kid did turn out to be very expensive as some have noted! I was a happy a father of two, looking at Mooneys and 182s when about 40hrs into my PPL my wife surprised me with news of our third daughter by telling me "we need a bigger plane". I'm now the proud father of three girls and the common thread I'm hearing is to get a plane that we can all enjoy as a family, which rules out the Mooney unfortunately. 

I never intended to fly all 5 of us in the Mooney obviously, but thought of it as a stepping stone to build time and proficiency in while taking short trips with just my wife, taking friends up for $100 hamburgers, and taking my older kids up for fun flights and fly solo for currency. The compromise was no full family trips until the youngest gets a bit older and then upgrade to a 6 place. Sounds like the general counsel is don't wait to start engaging the family and buy a plane we can grow into. 

I do appreciate the perspective on buying a plane to fly vs upgrade. I definitely want to fly, I'm pursuing ownership mainly for freedom of access to a plane since renting has been so frustrating. It sounds like I should prioritize a plane that is as close to my goals as possible without needing major upgrades out of the gate. I will absolutely head this advice and will reach out to Jimmy and Richard also.

I do have my name on all the local hanger waiting lists, and really hoping to find a plane that's already hangered locally, which is why I've gotten plugged in to our local EAA chapter. 

Lastly, thanks for calibrating my expectations on overhauls, avionics and paint costs. This will be helpful as I look at how to compare pricing between planes and set my maintenance reserve budget as I plan to start with at least 15-20K in reserves and will pay an hourly rate into that reserve. 

Thanks for all the feedback, I look forward to learning a lot from you all!

 

[DXB]

RESPONSES IN ALL CAPS BELOW

1. Should I engage a broker to help me find and purchase my first plane? Any recommendations in North Georgia/Atlanta Area? How should I initiate this process now that I have decided to buy?  [NO! USE THE STANDARD LISTING SERVICES PLUS WORD OF MOUTH/INTERNET, INCLUDING WTB IN FOR SALE SECTION HERE, OWNERS OF SHOPS THAT SEE A LOT OF MOONEYS]
2. If given the choice, would you rather find the perfect airframe, power plant, or avionics? What is the order of priority and why? What upgrade is easier/quicker to complete; a panel upgrade or an engine/prop overhaul?   [AIRFRAME FIRST - NO SUCH THING AS PERFECT BUT MAKE DEAD CERTAIN NO CORROSION OF SPAR OR STEEL CAGE, THEN ENGINE - PRIORITY IS WHATEVER ENGINE IT HAS IS APPROPRIATELY PRICED FOR AGE/CONDITION, THEN AVIONICS - GREAT AVIONICS SAVE YOU A TON OF MONEY IN LONG TERM BUT ARE HARD TO FIND]
3. As I compare different planes, I'm trying to normalize the pricing by budgeting for panel upgrades, engine/prop overhaul, interior upgrades and paint. I've done some research and found some rough numbers, please let me know if I'm off base, and let me know how I should be comparing prices from plane to plane. 
   1. Engine Overhaul: $40K for reman engine plus $20K for install/consumables/unforeseens - $60K total  [40K IS LOW THESE DAYS. FORGET FACTORY REMAN - WILL WAIT FOR YEARS. WANT GOOD OVERHAUL]
   2. Prop Overhaul: $20K for new prop or $5K for overhaul including governor [A BIT LOW - MORE LIKE 7+AMU]
   3. Avionics: $75-100K, varies widely, based on my goal for a 10" G3X w/ EIS, GI-275 Backup, GTN-750xi, GTN-650xi, GMA-350, GTX-345, GFC-500  [LOW - REMEMBER INSTALL COSTS CAN EXCEED THE HARDWARE COST]
   4. Interior: $10-15K for seats, carpets and refresh on the plastics [BALLPARK YES]
   5. Paint: $20K for strip and repaint [BALLPARK YES]
4. I've read many people recommend finding a mechanic before you buy a plane, any recommendations for Mooney A&Ps in the North Georgia/Atlanta Area? [COLE AVIATION DALTON GEORGIA IS THE BEST MOONEY SHOP IN THAT AREA BY FAR]
5. Lastly - if you know of anyone with a J model in North Georgia looking to sell, take on a new partner, or form a partnership, please let me know! I'm not on Facebook or social media, but if there's value to networking please let me know what FB groups I should be looking into. [AM NO HELP HERE.  REMEMBER A PARTNERSHIP IS LIKE A MARRIAGE SO IT HELPS TO KNOW THE PERSON WELL AND TRUST THEM]