Weight and Balance stations for M20F?

[SkyPilot]

In a recent thread about fuel caps and dipping tanks, the weight and balance and overgross questions came up. This is very important stuff. Nobody wants to get hurt. Also, in the event of an accident, being overgross or out of C of G limit will invalidate the Certificate of Airworthiness (Canadian name eh?) and thus you have no insurance. I've got all four seats insured at the moment, but full fuel, there really is no point.

So the big question is: Has anybody measured out the stations for the fuel, seats, baggage area, and hat rack? I can't find them anywhere in my owner's manual. I have the Co-pilot flight planning App on the iphone, and it is great, but need the stations to make the weight and balance function useful.

[jetdriven]

I have not actually measured them.   I cannot comment on the licensed CG limits, but the stations for pilot, passengers, fuel, cargo, and hatrack have to be the same as a J. The J they did the test flying on started out as an F.   Here is the W+B station info from a 1986 M20J. 

I keep reading that if your aver overweight, run your engine past TBO, fly without a BFR  or IPC, etc that insurance will not pay for an accident.  However, i have never read of an instance where an aviation insurance company refused to pay a claim like this. I think that is OWT.

[SkyPilot]

Great! I'll use these, and when I get back in country, I'll pull out a tape and measure it all up to be sure. In the meanwhile I can program the App

I did notice that your loading graph is very different. My manual does have the graph, just not the other two sheets you included.

If anybody else has input it would be appreciated.

[carusoam]

Somebody once put this into an excel spread sheet.  About two years ago.  I don't recall who did the work.  It was easy to update with A/F specific details

It would be nice to update to IPhone app...

PIELOG are you there?

Best regards,

-a-

[SkyPilot]

Quote: carusoam

Somebody once put this into an excel spread sheet.  About two years ago.  I don't recall who did the work.  It was easy to update with A/F specific details

It would be nice to update to IPhone app...

PIELOG are you there?

Best regards,

-a-

[MARZ]

My 67 F - I use the flightplan app for iphone

Stations

EW              1717.9  @ 46.21

Oil                           @ -11.5

fuel                          @ 48.43

front seats                @ 33

Rear seats                @ 72

baggage                   @ 95.5

Limits

1645 @ 41

2275 @ 41

2470 @ 41.8

2470 @ 44.8

2740 @ 51.1

1645 @ 51.1

 

IIRC there is a sliding scale for the seats

[Ron McBride]

I have this in an excell spread sheet.

E-mail me and I will send it to you.   N9154V@aol.com

Ron

[Comatose]

Quote: maropers

My 67 F - I use the flightplan app for iphone

Stations

EW              1717.9  @ 46.21

Oil                           @ -11.5

fuel                          @ 48.43

front seats                @ 33

Rear seats                @ 72

baggage                   @ 95.5

Limits

1645 @ 41

2275 @ 41

2470 @ 41.8

2470 @ 44.8

2740 @ 51.1

1645 @ 51.1

 

IIRC there is a sliding scale for the seats

[MARZ]

the above was me...

[rodtimmons]

I have the original W&B graphics for the 68 M20F, which does NOT include the envelope graph using STATION, only the envelope graph using MOMENT/1000.  It DOES have the "loading computation graph" with station numbers as shown below. Regardless, here are the "factory" numbers, (pretty much as shown above in prior posts), but with a little more detail on seat location.  

Note: The fore and aft seat locations are DIFFERENT on different models (check other posts/ model graphics), even with the same fuselage (F vs J, for instance). Someone mentioned that Mooney must have moved/shortened/lengthened the seat rails for different models... must be true.

Here are the numbers for a '68 M20F:

Oil: -11.5

Front seats, foreward position: 31.5

Front seats, aft position: 39

Fuel: 48.43

Rear seats, upright position: 70.7

Rear seats, reclined position: 75.7

Baggage: 95.5

Interestingly, the hat rack station is NOT shown on the graphic, but is included on the factory sample calculations... and is 119 in.

I would also suggest that you get an ACTUAL weight and balance for your empty aircraft using scales. I am going to get mine done in the next few days... I have found an FBO that has a set. I have looked through the logbooks on this bird and the additions and subtractions over the years are sometimes somewhat "casual".  The "claimed" empty weight is now 1713 lb at 44.06in, or 75,490 moment... we shall see! It looks like it has been almost 45 years since this 'ol mooney was actually, really weighed.

[Ragsf15e]

Sorry to bump this, but can someone tell me where the above w&b limits in cg came from?  My graph for the 68F is in moment vs weight and dividing out the cg from the weight and moment doesn't seem to come up with the same limits.

 

basically I'm just trying to build my cg envelope for a w&b app.

 

thank, rags

[RLCarter]

Weights & Arms are in the Type Certificate Data Sheet on the FAA's website HERE

[TonyK]

I have been playing with "Aviation W&B" from the Apple App store.  It has a template for the F that was easily adjustable for my 74.

[Yetti]

I think it is in my manual.  75 F manual.

You need the Type data sheet when adding and removing things.   The professional offered me his scales.... Just need to find some time.

[Yetti]

http://www.67m20e.com/Mooney TCDS 2A3 Rev 52 dtd 9DEC10.pdf

[Ron McBride]

I use wn b pro. Easy to use, run a bunch of possible samples and you will have your answers  I have an excellent spreadsheet also for 69F.  Email me at n9154v@aol.com for the excell sheet.

Ron

 

[Ragsf15e]

Thanks guys!  Found it and used the data from the TCDS.  I'm using WnB Pro as well.  Seems good now that I've got the data from the TCDS.

 

Rags

Edited March 26, 2017 by Ragsf15e

[Rmag]

If you use Garmin Pilot (black image) or ForeFlight (white image), both have a good Weight and Balance programs built in. 

[carusoam]

I also use the WnB pro.

Took a while to get all the points entered.  But once in there cranking out answers was easy.

I would like to see an app that cranked out Mooney specific performance numbers...

I would buy that direct from the MSC tomorrow.  

Best regards,

-a-