How Many "Touch & Go's" Does It Take To Get To Have A "Landing Incident"?...1?...2?..5?..10?...More?

[Hank]

I do touch and goes for instrument currency, running along the runway at idle while resetting trim before powering up to head for the next airport. Sometimes I even do a touch and go on an IPC.

What's the point in purposely avoiding touch and goes?

My minimum for TnG is 5000' of runway and not landing long, otherwise I'll stop and taxi back.

[DonMuncy]

Sounds like the typical multi-tasking vs no multi-tasking question. I have had CFIs chide me for writing down a clearance while taxiing. And I do admit that it does take a little thought and eye movement to re-set the flaps to the take-off position (assuming you landed with full flaps) while rolling exactly on the center line. Yes, there are potential risks with any distraction, but yes, in real life we sometimes have to deal with distractions, so perhaps we ought to practice distractions. 

[EricJ]

32 minutes ago, DonMuncy said:

Sounds like the typical multi-tasking vs no multi-tasking question. I have had CFIs chide me for writing down a clearance while taxiing. And I do admit that it does take a little thought and eye movement to re-set the flaps to the take-off position (assuming you landed with full flaps) while rolling exactly on the center line. Yes, there are potential risks with any distraction, but yes, in real life we sometimes have to deal with distractions, so perhaps we ought to practice distractions. 

I've had a number of instructors/check pilots/etc do subtle or not-so-subtle distractions at critical moments.   It is good exercise.   It's also fun to snark back a bit when you notice it. 

[midlifeflyer]

Seems most if these threads come down to:

There’s an increased risk that’s not necessary.

vs.

It hasn’t happened to me so it’s silly.

[MikeOH]

23 hours ago, EricJ said:

I've had a number of instructors/check pilots/etc do subtle or not-so-subtle distractions at critical moments.   It is good exercise.   It's also fun to snark back a bit when you notice it. 

LOL!  Yeah, the weirdest one pulled on me was the CFI that kept changing the code on the transponder from 1200 before we took off!  Like four times!  I just kept casually resetting it to 1200 and never let on that I knew he was doing it.  Thankfully, he was not so inclined once we were airborne.  Seemed kind of a stupid 'distraction' as taxiing was about as far from a critical moment as you can get!

[jetdriven]

On 1/19/2025 at 1:01 PM, DonMuncy said:

Sounds like the typical multi-tasking vs no multi-tasking question. I have had CFIs chide me for writing down a clearance while taxiing. And I do admit that it does take a little thought and eye movement to re-set the flaps to the take-off position (assuming you landed with full flaps) while rolling exactly on the center line. Yes, there are potential risks with any distraction, but yes, in real life we sometimes have to deal with distractions, so perhaps we ought to practice distractions. 

Minimizing distractions is key for safety.  In 2-pilot airline operations the F/O will announce heads down to enter something into the FMGC or to write down something like a clearance.  We also don’t do any reconfiguring during taxi, exception being  the after landing flow at taxi speed once clear of the runway.  There is a reason for this. 

[T. Peterson]

On 1/19/2025 at 9:48 AM, Ricky_231 said:

What's the point of touch and goes beyond primary training? I assume no one here is renting so you're not paying by the hour. In my plane, I always do full stop/taxi back. No rush, no sudden changes in power. Flight school 172s, sure, but not in my baby.

Some folks do T&G’s because they enjoy them. 

[Ricky_231]

9 hours ago, T. Peterson said:

Some folks do T&G’s because they enjoy them. 

ok, fair. that's a good reason :-)

[A64Pilot]

On 1/21/2025 at 12:06 AM, T. Peterson said:

Some folks do T&G’s because they enjoy them. 

I think it goes way back as in decades ago and was primarily the new pilot and or owner just going flying and it was an excuse to fly, it was something to do, on weekends you would have several in the pattern doing T&G’s.

I personally other than back in training have ever done them, and don’t on a complex aircraft, but not because I’m afraid of a gear up, but because just adding gear cycles for seemingly no real gain is counterproductive as in it has to be accumulating wear for no gain.

[Ibra]

On 1/19/2025 at 7:37 PM, EricJ said:

I've had a number of instructors/check pilots/etc do subtle or not-so-subtle distractions at critical moments.

I enjoy doing it to students, also when not instructing and just flying with other pilots …

Just to see how far one can go before one lose it or enforce sterile cockpit. Learned this from a lady who taught me to fly while ago, she was the kind who can’t stop talking, even during flaring 

Edited January 26 by Ibra

[Fly Boomer]

On 1/26/2025 at 3:54 PM, Ibra said:

Learned this from a lady who taught me to fly while ago, she was the kind who can’t stop talking, even during flaring 

That's what the "Pilot Isolate" button on the audio panel is for.

[RescueMunchkin]

My first flight in a Mooney was with a local CFI that I found in the Mooney Flyer list and in his plane.  He was adamant that the plane was full stop only.  It was also my first time in a complex plane and I was looking for him to eventually give me the endorsement.

I took that to heart and planned never to do TNGs after I got my plane. After all, my goal is for time building and full stop taxi backs build more logbook time without adding tach time.

But then during my commercial training, I was doing my 10 solo night towered landings at a class C airport that had plenty of traffic landing at the time. I asked for full stop taxi backs for all 10 landings but during my 4th or 5th, there was a controller change and I guess he wasn't told about my taxi back landings and only cleared me for a TNG.  Not wanting to inconvenience him and given the 17kt headwinds, i figured I could easily just land at half flaps which is the same as takeoff setting on my plane. So i completed the last 6 landings as TNGs and felt rather comfortable doing them.

Just a few weeks ago, I got my HP endorsement in a V35 Bonanza and discovered the gear control and flap controls are very near each other and also hidden from my view behind the yoke crossbar.  I could see TNGs in that plane being very risky for someone since it's so easy to accidentally raise the gear instead of flaps.

Edited Tuesday at 05:49 AM by RescueMunchkin

[EricJ]

9 hours ago, RescueMunchkin said:

Just a few weeks ago, I got my HP endorsement in a V35 Bonanza and discovered the gear control and flap controls are very near each other and also hidden from my view behind the yoke crossbar.  I could see TNGs in that plane being very risky for someone since it's so easy to accidentally raise the gear instead of flaps.

And somehow that spreads to it being bad on all airplanes, or raising the flaps on rollout being bad because you might grab the gear handle instead.   I got criticized raising the flaps on touchdown in a C182 because it's dangerous since I could have grabbed the gear handle.   It is a fixed-gear airplane.

Similarly, the OWT about not running an engine oversquare apparently started with one installation of a radial engine where that was an operating limitation, or at least practical guidance.   Somehow that expanded to being true for every engine everywhere, even after you point out to people settings in the POH that are significantly over-square.

I love whoever it was at Mooney that decided to put the gear handle at the top center of the panel.   That makes it visible to everybody in the airplane, it's such a distinctly different location and motion from the flap switch, and it's super easy to visually check anywhere on final.  I've always thought other manufacturers should copy that.

I'm glad you got over the TNG hurdle.

[Hank]

2 hours ago, EricJ said:

I love whoever it was at Mooney that decided to put the gear handle at the top center of the panel.

I check the gear handle & light on base, and the floor indicator on final.

Raising flaps on rollout is simple, while holding the throttle to idle, just reach out one finger to the flap switch and bring them up

[RescueMunchkin]

Since my plane has the hydraulic flaps and takeoff setting is at half, I would just do my TNG landings at half flaps and not have to worry at all about dumping the flaps after touchdown.  Especially at night when it's near impossible to see the flap position indicator....

[Max Clark]

Did TNGs with my transition. I'm pretty sure my CFI was doing it to push task saturation.

Glad I did, but I will tell you I don't like it at all and will not do them solo in the plane.

These birds are fast and it's incredibly busy and easy to forget something.