Send Me Your Mountain Routes

[PeteMc]

There's a post that many of you may have seen over on FB for a Mooney driver doing a X-US flight.  And he's asking the same question a lot of people do on their first X-US flight, where to cross the mountains.  So started over in the Pacific Northwest Grp and posting the following here for any help you may all have....

Send me your Mountain Routes!

In one of the Mooney Grps there was yet another person looking for info on how best to get from one side of the Rockies to the other. I've seen lots of people share their stories, but I just looked again and I still didn't find a simple Map that shows All or Most of the options depending upon if you're going to the PNW, SF or down to LA.

I'm not sure when I'll get a chance to create it, but I'd love to start compiling the various routes to show as potential options. then you don't have to go through the whole process of finding all the charted passes on the Sectional (and perfectly acceptable uncharted passes).

Feel free to rate your Route for complexity or training. I'm open to suggestions, but for the first draft:

1 = Can be flown in a 150

5 = Can be flown by an experienced pilot with no REAL Mt training

10 = Must be an experienced Mt flyer!!

Max Altitude Required would also be a good thing to put on the Route so they'd know if their plane can do it or if O2 is required. (You might not go that high, but you're up there for quite a while vs. just a climb for one short part of the route, etc.)

And quite honestly, I've forgotten most of my Mt training from years ago. And the 20+ times I've crossed the Rockies I've always been well up in the teens and more concerned about what I could glide to Apt, road, house I could see, etc.) than dealing with really going THROUGH the mountains. So although it will not replace real Mt Flying Training. Add all notes you can think of for people doing their first real X-US flight.

 

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Edited September 29 by PeteMc

[ArtVandelay]

I think all routes will basically follow the interstates.

[Hank]

37 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

I think all routes will basically follow the interstates.

I've heard that I-10 is an easy route.

Just make sure there are no tunnels . . . .

[PeteMc]

21 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

I think all routes will basically follow the interstates.

Yes, following the Interstates is probably the obvious choice.  But there are actually a lot of marked passes with their Altitudes out there.  Problem is, you have to zoom way in on the Sectional and slowly go down the mountains to find them.  And once you find one pass, you need to make sure it leads to lower terrain or some other pass so you can continue the way you need/want to go. 

Did really check to see if this was flyable, but real quickly a potential non Interstate route might be KGCK 4V1 VPVTP La Manga Pass (37.08367°N/106.38336°W) KFMN.  Looks like you could do it at 12,500 for the max altitude for a bit, with most of the flight much lower.  

So if we document all the various routes people have taken, people going for the first time will not have to reinvent the wheel, as it were.

 

[EricJ]

It's very weather and wind dependent as well.   I used to fly AZ-SoDak a lot, which meant crossing wherever it made the best sense at the time.   Sometimes that was up by Rawlins or Shively, WY, sometimes that was La Veta pass or Angel Fire or wherever.   Usually the safest, easiest crossings are either all the way north (Rawlins) or all the way south (Santa Fe, Las Vegas, NM), but there are a lot of good opportunities in between, too.   It's hard to make a list, I think, but if you just go do it and keep lots of options and contingencies open, with even a moderately reasonable level of planning you'll probably be fine.

[dkkim73]

Not on the FB group. Turbo or no-turbo would be a big differentiator as well. 

[Skates97]

This guy flies his C around Colorado and has some good videos about some different routes through the range. 

https://youtube.com/@manandamooney?si=72QQH6mDyZ_Ljd_0

[toto]

48 minutes ago, Skates97 said:

This guy flies his C around Colorado and has some good videos about some different routes through the range. 

https://youtube.com/@manandamooney?si=72QQH6mDyZ_Ljd_0

He’s on MS @Christian

Haven’t seen new videos in a while but they’re quite good 

[N201MKTurbo]

Helena Missoula Spokane.

Rawlings

Alamosa 

Albuquerque

Socorro

El Paso

 

[Z W]

It's also useful to look at the IFR low charts.  The charted airways run most often from airport to airport and often over roads, and beginning your mountain crossing at a VOR sometimes seems to put you roughly where you want to be.  The minimum enroute altitudes (MEAs) on the airways are also good indicators of what altitudes you really want to be at, plane performance permitting.

You don't often want to be flying there IFR in a piston single, but the hard work has all been done by the good folks who figured out the best ways through and around the mountains while maintaining terrain clearance, radio coms, and nearby diversion options.  They went and built VORs there.

I find this a lot easier than zooming in on the VFR charts and trying to pick out a pass, at least at first.  

[natdm]

15 hours ago, PeteMc said:

 But there are actually a lot of marked passes with their Altitudes out there.  Problem is, you have to zoom way in on the Sectional and slowly go down the mountains to find them.

What do those look like? I don't remember being quizzed on those or finding them on the sectional. Any example?

[Utah20Gflyer]

The route through the central Rockies is following I-80.  Through southern Wyoming, dropping down into Utah via a pass and then across the Great Basin.  You would cross the Sierras around Lake Tahoe.  You could do that route in good VFR conditions as low as 9k MSL.   It’s a pretty direct route.  

[PeteMc]

1 hour ago, natdm said:

What do those look like?

The little black lines.  Note that N La Veta Pass has both a GPS Wpt and AWOS

 

[Deb]

21 hours ago, PeteMc said:

Send me your Mountain Routes!

Phil Corman discusses 4 routes across the Rockies on page 13 of the November, 2013 issue of The Mooney Flyer. Here’s a link to that issue: https://themooneyflyer.com/issues/2013-NovTMF.pdf#page13.

Back Country Pilot has a longer article here: https://backcountrypilot.org/knowledge-base/destinations/193-colorado-crossing-continental-divide.

[Marc_B]

https://www.codot.gov/programs/aeronautics/Periodicals/colorado-airport-directory

CO Department of Transportation provides a free airport directory every year and this has information about mountain flying, Colorado mountain passes, and airport information.

A good general rule of thumb is that you should probably avoid mountain passes when the winds are more than about 20-25 kts (or forecast to be)....the downdrafts and turbulence may be an issue above that.  Lots of CO passes have weather stations that you can monitor.

[Marc_B]

https://cpassoc.clubexpress.com/content.aspx?page_id=22&club_id=612720&module_id=379021

The Colorado Pilots Association has plenty of information available on Colorado mountain flying.  They also host a CPA Mountain Flying Course at least once a year that has an optional flight component.  WELL worth it for some direct local knowledge and mountain flying experience!

[EricJ]

1 hour ago, Marc_B said:

https://cpassoc.clubexpress.com/content.aspx?page_id=22&club_id=612720&module_id=379021

The Colorado Pilots Association has plenty of information available on Colorado mountain flying.  They also host a CPA Mountain Flying Course at least once a year that has an optional flight component.  WELL worth it for some direct local knowledge and mountain flying experience!

That's an excellent resource.    That and the manandamooney YT channel vids are very good for getting an easy handle on the practicalities.

 

[wombat]

I usually use one of three 'routes' when crossing the Rockies VFR.  And I'm usually going to/from the Seattle area.  I'll list these as going West to East, but just reverse them if you are going the other way.   I'm including crossing the Cascades, and my 'destination' is Des Moines Iowa for this example, but I just stopped putting waypoints after I'm out of the mountains.    The higher you can fly, the further from major roads you can fly to be more direct. 

The "North" route is: KBFI S88  KEAT  KSFF  MLP  KMSO  38S  KBZN  KBIL   https://skyvector.com/?ll=46.325309636327376,-112.80432128491857&chart=301&zoom=3&fpl=N0180 KBFI S88 KEAT KSFF MLP KMSO 38S KBZN KBIL KDSM

You can do that below 8,000' if you stick near to I-90, but the higher you can climb, the more direct you can go.

The "Northern Southern" route is: KBFI  KELN  KBOI  KTWF  KIDA  KJAC  DNW  KDUB  KRIW https://skyvector.com/?ll=43.23119628894878,-113.13995360915851&chart=301&zoom=7&fpl=N0180 KBFI KELN KBOI KTWF KIDA KJAC DNW KDUB KRIW KDSM

You are going to have to be at at least 10,500 to get over Togwotee pass, but you can make it over Teton pass at 9,500'.    

The "Southern Southern" route is:  KELN  KBOI  KTWF  KBMC  KRKS  KRWL    https://skyvector.com/?ll=44.048642155373955,-111.42333983951893&chart=301&zoom=10&fpl=N0180 KBFI KELN KBOI KTWF KBMC KRKS KRWL KDSM

You really need to make it up to about 9,500' to get over the Utah/Wyoming border safely, but if you really want to stick to the roads, you can do it at 8,500 I bet, going through Evanston and following I-80

 

But this is a Mooney forum, everybody here should be able to make 12,500' with relative ease.

 

If I'm IFR, it's just direct at FL210 

[Hank]

40 minutes ago, wombat said:

But this is a Mooney forum, everybody here should be able to make 12,500' with relative ease.

If I'm IFR, it's just direct at FL210 

My little C struggles when climbing to 10K and above.

As for Direct, most of us aren't blessed with a big turbo . . . . But it sounds like fun!

[PeteMc]

4 hours ago, Deb said:

Phil Corman discusses 4 routes across the Rockies

Well there you have it!  That is sort of what I wanted to do by creating a few options when people ask "which way do I gooo???"  (Wonder how many will get that reference? ) 

I think I'll still keep collecting Routes, but his article is a good reference!  Thx for pointing it out.

 

[PeteMc]

@Marc_B and @wombat

Great stuff!!!

 

[wombat]

2 hours ago, Hank said:

My little C struggles when climbing to 10K and above.

These are long XC flights...  If it takes 30 minutes to get up to 10k feet, that's fine.