Engine will not start

[Ppizzo]

Once again I made the mistake of posting to this site. It appears that there are a lot of people that want to tell me how to post, but don’t actually have answers. I have a mechanic and he and I are both stumped by the engine not starting.  M231 k 1979, TSIO 360 and yes it has gas!!  Assuming that everything works properly what is the secret that all of you extremely capable Mooney owners have for getting the dang thing started!!!

[MikeOH]

16 minutes ago, Ppizzo said:

Once again I made the mistake of posting to this site. It appears that there are a lot of people that want to tell me how to post, but don’t actually have answers. I have a mechanic and he and I are both stumped by the engine not starting.  M231 k 1979, TSIO 360 and yes it has gas!!  Assuming that everything works properly what is the secret that all of you extremely capable Mooney owners have for getting the dang thing started!!!

Let's see, you come on here asking, demanding more like, help.  And provide virtually no information that might help someone help you.  Then you criticize posters for telling you that we need more information.  Now you admit both you and your mechanic are 'stumped'?!??  Your mechanic is privy to ALL details yet you act like there's some 'secret' we are withholding from you when we don't magically give you "the answer?"

Does any of that seem remotely a rational or polite way of getting help?

[BravoWhiskey]

Assuming everything works properly I would follow the POH

[Will.iam]

2 hours ago, Ppizzo said:

Once again I made the mistake of posting to this site. It appears that there are a lot of people that want to tell me how to post, but don’t actually have answers. I have a mechanic and he and I are both stumped by the engine not starting.  M231 k 1979, TSIO 360 and yes it has gas!!  Assuming that everything works properly what is the secret that all of you extremely capable Mooney owners have for getting the dang thing started!!!

Fix the starter adapter if that doesn’t solve your problem then get more information to us if you don’t want to waste our time or your money. 

[redbaron1982]

I'm amazed that even after a not very polite first message you got very good answers. That's great proof that this forum is full of people trying to help, no matter what. 

BTW, am I the only one that think this account sounds like a bot and not a real person?

Edited September 22 by redbaron1982

[Ppizzo]

I rest my case!

[N204TA]

I feel your frustration but, as others have said, “engine will not start” is about as vague as it gets and nearly impossible to diagnose on a message board. At least, we need to know the circumstances, the symptoms, what you’ve tried, etc.  If your mechanic right there can’t figure it out, the armchair quarterbacks here probably can’t either.

FWIW, I have been in the Mooney game for 30 years and only two things have ever caused my engine to mysteriously “not start.”  The first was a broken wire on the left mag.  It broke right at the ring terminal and wasn’t immediately noticeable.  The second was a failure of the flow divider, a.k.a. “The Spider” on top of the engine.  Everything looked normal in the cockpit, but fuel was not getting to the cylinders.  We discovered that by disconnecting one of the injector lines and turning on the boost pump.  When fuel didn’t squirt out, we knew where the problem was.  Sure enough, an overhauled flow divider fixed the problem.

[Ppizzo]

Sorry folks but I have not had great experiences on this site. I imagine a bunch of old curmudgeons waiting to pounce on anything that isn’t phrased exactly how they think it should be phrased and that appears to be the extent of the responses that I have ever received. Take this issue for instance, I am going to get a ton of responses that question the most obvious things like fuel, spark plugs, all of the first things that one would check, but no responses that go past that.  For instance maybe someone has something to say about the sensitivity to flooding, or the us3 of a booster pump, or maybe their leaning procedure…no I get responses like “what did you do since the last time it started”. Oh yea that reminds me I removed the fuel pump and forgot to put it back in the plane!  It’s no problem if you do not have a helpful suggestion, but maybe that would be a clue for you to either state that or better yet just don’t respond!

[ArtVandelay]

Sorry folks but I have not had great experiences on this site. I imagine a bunch of old curmudgeons waiting to pounce on anything that isn’t phrased exactly how they think it should be phrased and that appears to be the extent of the responses that I have ever received. Take this issue for instance, I am going to get a ton of responses that question the most obvious things like fuel, spark plugs, all of the first things that one would check, but no responses that go past that.  For instance maybe someone has something to say about the sensitivity to flooding, or the us3 of a booster pump, or maybe their leaning procedure…no I get responses like “what did you do since the last time it started”. Oh yea that reminds me I removed the fuel pump and forgot to put it back in the plane!  It’s no problem if you do not have a helpful suggestion, but maybe that would be a clue for you to either state that or better yet just don’t respond!

Who’s fault is that?

A vague question about your plane doesn’t start, if you don’t mention that you checked the fuel injectors, spark plugs, etc how are we suppose to know?

Vague questions get vague answers.

[N204TA]

32 minutes ago, Ppizzo said:

Sorry folks but I have not had great experiences on this site. I imagine a bunch of old curmudgeons waiting to pounce…

Some days, I absolutely agree with you as there are members who seem to think that they are a cross between Chuck Yeager and Charles Taylor who feel an overwhelming sense of duty to respond to every thread.  Still, that doesn’t diminish the fact that you came here for advice and have provided little information and now you’re getting frustrated by what you feel are a lack of “helpful” responses. 
 

In two threads, you state that your engine will not start but you won’t elaborate.  I think most of us assume that this is a new, sudden problem so we are focusing on the obvious solutions.  Despite decades of technological advancement, aircraft engines are still remarkably primitive and an engine that cranks but won’t fire either isn’t getting fuel or the plugs aren’t sparking.  Now, however, you are bringing up flooding, boost pumps, mixture settings, etc.  That sounds like you aren’t having a “won’t start” issue but, rather, want tips on making starting easier.  “My engine won’t start…period” is different from “My engine won’t start right away and there must be better way of doing it.”  The latter statement will probably get you all kinds of suggestions, tips, tricks of the trade, etc., but you need to ask that question if that’s what you’re seeking.

 

[EricJ]

57 minutes ago, Ppizzo said:

Sorry folks but I have not had great experiences on this site. I imagine a bunch of old curmudgeons waiting to pounce on anything that isn’t phrased exactly how they think it should be phrased and that appears to be the extent of the responses that I have ever received. Take this issue for instance, I am going to get a ton of responses that question the most obvious things like fuel, spark plugs, all of the first things that one would check, but no responses that go past that.  For instance maybe someone has something to say about the sensitivity to flooding, or the us3 of a booster pump, or maybe their leaning procedure…no I get responses like “what did you do since the last time it started”. Oh yea that reminds me I removed the fuel pump and forgot to put it back in the plane!  It’s no problem if you do not have a helpful suggestion, but maybe that would be a clue for you to either state that or better yet just don’t respond!

Did you just want everybody to make assumptions?    That's usually not helpful or efficient.   You said you had a mechanic there that was stumped, and you provided a lot less information than he had if he's there, so I'm puzzled why you'd think an internet forum (of all places) would suddenly know what was wrong with almost no information?

Berating everybody for not being able to guess what you're thinking isn't helping your cause.

[PeteMc]

Yea, sorry but I don't mean to rag on you either, BUT...

The engine won't start HOW???  You say you have gas... is it good 100LL? Does the prop spin?  If so, at a similar speed to other K starting up?  Does it partially start and then quit?  What steps has the mechanic gone through so far?  Did the plane get towed to the mechanic on your filed or did you fly it there for some sort of maintenance?  If it was working and taken to the mechanic, what did they do?

So many many more potential questions and we don't have a base line to start from.  I'll make the assumption that your mechanic is pretty good.  But for years my guys (in tech not engines) would give me a face when I asked "is it plugged in" which meant "did you already trace ALL the cabling and connections?"  More then half the time it was something really stupid that fell into the "is it plugged in" category.  

 

[LANCECASPER]

On 9/21/2024 at 11:02 PM, Ppizzo said:

Sorry folks but I have not had great experiences on this site. I imagine a bunch of old curmudgeons waiting to pounce on anything that isn’t phrased exactly how they think it should be phrased and that appears to be the extent of the responses that I have ever received. Take this issue for instance, I am going to get a ton of responses that question the most obvious things like fuel, spark plugs, all of the first things that one would check, but no responses that go past that.  For instance maybe someone has something to say about the sensitivity to flooding, or the us3 of a booster pump, or maybe their leaning procedure…no I get responses like “what did you do since the last time it started”. Oh yea that reminds me I removed the fuel pump and forgot to put it back in the plane!  It’s no problem if you do not have a helpful suggestion, but maybe that would be a clue for you to either state that or better yet just don’t respond!

Phillip,

I'm curious, what do you think these people owe you? I'll help you with that answer. Absolutely nothing.  And what have you contributed so far. Exactly the same.

Have you ever used the words "please" or "thank you" in your life? 

People come on here all the time and request help and, just like with you, members jump in to see if they can provide any assistance. The only difference is that in almost every instance the person asking has enough class to be grateful for anyone's time and attention. If you don't like their suggestion, ignore it. Don't blast them for taking their time to respond. You have the airplane in front of you and you and your mechanic can't figure it out and you come on here and expect the answer on the first reply? 

“what did you do since the last time it started?" was one of the best answers you could have gotten. It sounds like you've done some things recently. You already said the spark plugs were new - did you check to make sure the leads were seated on the plugs? Are they gapped properly? Have you double-checked that they are the correct plugs? You said you had a new fuel pump - this wouldn't be the first time that a new or overhauled pump was not putting out the pressure it should right out of the box.  Did you time the mags recently? When was the last time your mags were overhauled? Think back - if it started Thursday and it doesn't start Saturday, it's very likely that something in those two days changed. When we get frustrated we overlook the obvious sometimes. Getting basic answers from people on here and then chastising them for giving you the answers, tells them that you already know more than they do. But if that was true wouldn't your airplane be starting?

I wish you the best in the search for your answers, but unless you change your attitude you would save yourself a lot of frustration by getting your answers elsewhere.

[Ethan]

My trick to starting the TSIO-360-LB engine cold is to follow the checklist. Most important, when the engine is cold, It is important to prime enough - 4 full seconds with the throttle full open and the mixture rich. After priming, I reduce the throttle so it's now about a quarter of the full travel - more open is good - then I start the engine. It usually fires off after two blades pass. If it still hesitates I thumb the primer while it's sputtering and it become happier.