Well that was "fun"

[gwav8or]

Last night was a beautiful evening to get some flying in.  Flew for a short 30 minutes and planned to do some take off and landing practice.  On the landing rollout, I felt a shimmy.  It got worse and worse and worse......  I figured it was a nose wheel flat and I did my best to get the aircraft off the runway since there were a few other planes in the pattern.  Unfortunately when I was just barely off the runway and not passed the hold short line, I came to a complete stop as it was almost impossible to taxi.

 

[Shadrach]

That sucks. At least you are at you home field.  Should take less ~hour to replace. The nose wheel tire and tube are the easiest to R&R.

[gwav8or]

29 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

That sucks. At least you are at you home field.  Should take less ~hour to replace. The nose wheel tire and tube are the easiest to R&R.

Agreed, I'm fortunate.  I'll prob run and pick up a tire and tube tomorrow.  The tires/tubes on my bird are all less than a year old too.  My luck! roflol

[Shadrach]

13 minutes ago, gwav8or said:

Agreed, I'm fortunate.  I'll prob run and pick up a tire and tube tomorrow.  The tires/tubes on my bird are all less than a year old too.  My luck! roflol

Was there a visible puncture? If the tube failed in a under year, I am wondering what caused it.

[gwav8or]

7 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

Was there a visible puncture? If the tube failed in a under year, I am wondering what caused it.

I looked it over when I finally got it back to the hangar.  I didn't see a visible puncture.  I honestly don't know what caused it.  If it was slightly under inflated, could that have caused it?  I don't think it was under inflated bc it looked good on preflight but that's the only thing I can figure.

[Shadrach]

15 minutes ago, gwav8or said:

I looked it over when I finally got it back to the hangar.  I didn't see a visible puncture.  I honestly don't know what caused it.  If it was slightly under inflated, could that have caused it?  I don't think it was under inflated bc it looked good on preflight but that's the only thing I can figure.

Unlikely unless it was really underinflated or operated low for a long period of time. Could have been a small pinch that wore through after a short time in service.  You'll know when you get eyes on the tube.

[BlueSky247]

Magnolia Aviation is on that field if you want to have a pro take care of it. They stay busy but will take care of you. 

[gwav8or]

11 minutes ago, BlueSky247 said:

Magnolia Aviation is on that field if you want to have a pro take care of it. They stay busy but will take care of you. 

Yep!  They are the ones that take care of my Mooney.  Great folks and they've always taken good care of me and I've never had to wait long for them to get to me either.  

[bigmo]

21 minutes ago, gwav8or said:

I looked it over when I finally got it back to the hangar.  I didn't see a visible puncture.  I honestly don't know what caused it.  If it was slightly under inflated, could that have caused it?  I don't think it was under inflated bc it looked good on preflight but that's the only thing I can figure.

Underinflated like 44psi? No, not at all. Underinflated like 18psi? Yes, 100%. 

I've gotten into the habit of checking tire pressure with every first of the day pre-flight. I hate laying on the ground as much as the next guy, but it takes all of a minute to do. I do want to get someone with a portable nitrogen setup and convert to nitrogen. SO much less impact due to weather changes. 

[BlueSky247]

5 minutes ago, gwav8or said:

Yep!  They are the ones that take care of my Mooney.  Great folks and they've always taken good care of me and I've never had to wait long for them to get to me either.  

That is great to hear. They were the ones that were taking care of the J I just picked up and as far as I can tell, the previous owner(deceased) was happy with them as well. 

 

As far as your tire issue goes, have you had a chance to put the tube in a bucket of water to check for leaks?

[gwav8or]

4 minutes ago, BlueSky247 said:

As far as your tire issue goes, have you had a chance to put the tube in a bucket of water to check for leaks?

Congrats on the J!  The folks at Magnolia have a C in their fleet so that made me more comfortable with them taking care of mine.  They also took care of my Tiger when I had it.

I have not.  The flat happened at about 7:40pm last night.  So, I just got it back in the hangar and went home.  Unfortunately, I have to be at work today instead of having fun at the airport.  lol  I'll go visit with Justin after lunch today and get on his schedule to check it out.

[hammdo]

Damn, do you have a portable air pump to see if you can pump up enough to move? FOD somewhere…

Edit - see you got it back…

-Don

[gwav8or]

4 hours ago, hammdo said:

Damn, do you have a portable air pump to see if you can pump up enough to move? FOD somewhere…

Edit - see you got it back…

-Don

Yeah, I had one in the hangar but it looked to me like it "broke the bead" but the tire remained on the rim.  I feel very fortunate as of right now.  We'll see how fortunate I am after the mechanic takes a closer look. 

[Shadrach]

6 minutes ago, gwav8or said:

Yeah, I had one in the hangar but it looked to me like it "broke the bead" but the tire remained on the rim.  I feel very fortunate as of right now.  We'll see how fortunate I am after the mechanic takes a closer look. 

The bead of a tubed tire does not hold air.  That being said, I don't think that tube was inflatable.

[gwav8or]

3 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

The bead of a tubed tire does not hold air.  That being said, I don't think that tube was inflatable.

True.  When the mechanic helper looked at it today, he immediately said "Ouch, I think you'll need a new tire and tube."

[mike_elliott]

7 hours ago, Shadrach said:

Was there a visible puncture? If the tube failed in a under year, I am wondering what caused it.

Not saying this is the cause here. A lot of premature failures are caused by the tube folding over on itself when installed and being "pinched". Make sure you use a talc and partially inflate the tube when installing in the tire.

[EricJ]

8 hours ago, gwav8or said:

I looked it over when I finally got it back to the hangar.  I didn't see a visible puncture.  I honestly don't know what caused it.  If it was slightly under inflated, could that have caused it?  I don't think it was under inflated bc it looked good on preflight but that's the only thing I can figure.

As mentioned previously, if the tube got pinched somewhere in the previous installation it could have just finally failed.   Or, if it was too seriously underinflated it might have stressed the valve neck and caused a leak there.    Sometimes a pinch or a fold is easy to see in the old tube after it's removed.    It'd probably be worth putting some air in the old tube and see where it leaked to try to sort out why it did that.

[Will.iam]

My nose wheel lasted 3 years and one day i came to the hanger to fly and it was flat. I took it to my A&P and when he separated the wheel the tube had a hole at the separation point of the wheel. Apparently the previous installer didn’t insure the tube was free from the wheel when it was reassembled. 

[Z W]

Same thing happened to me, except I noticed nothing until I was off the runway.  Plane suddenly came to a stop and wouldn't taxi.  Had no idea what it was.  My nose tire looked just like that when I got out.  Got an air tank but it wouldn't hold air long enough to taxi to the hangar.  Had to jack it up, put the nose wheel on a rolling cart, and tow it with my truck, with the help of a local A&P.

When we got the tube out and put air back in it, there was a pencil-sized hole on the inside, where it would have been against the wheel.  Could have been pinched during install.  Must have worn through.

New one went on with talc powder and was partly inflated, then deflated, then re-inflated to proper PSI.  Cleaned the wheel first to make sure there was no debris / rough spots.  Haven't had a problem since.

[Z W]

I'll add too - after this I ordered spare tubes, one in the size for the nose and one in the size for the mains, and keep them on the shelf in my hangar.  Later on I had a bald spot appear on a tire and got spares of those too.  Both are sold at different qualities and price points.  If you just ask a shop to fix it without specifying you won't know what you're getting.  Canceling a trip is inconvenient.  Landing with a flat tire could total your airplane or even hurt someone.

[takair]

There are a few threads on this topic. Could be a pinch, under inflation or another crappy tube. Take a close look. I’ve had three of them with pin hole leaks that were not caused by a pinch. The tubes simply seemed defective and seemed to lack adequate wetting of rubber when manufactured. Last one was less than a year old. If it can be shown to be defective, get in touch with the manufacturer. Mine was replaced.  Also, do a service difficulty report. For as much as we pay for these things now, you would think they can get it right. 

[takair]

Just to rant a little more. I’m not convinced that basic under inflation causes it. On tail wheel aircraft many of us run intentionally “under inflated”. I don’t believe they fail at a higher or lower rate. They certainly do not tolerate a pinch well, but I still believe that manufacturing is a bigger root cause. I’ve also been suspicious about the initial packing. They come folded from the manufacturer and I would contend the folded corners create a weak spot not unlike the pinch they tell us to avoid. Not sure how to prove or resolve this unless they store and ship them with light inflation.  Anyway, take a close look when you get it off in case it is a simple pinhole defect. In each of my events I took off inflated and landed with a flat and it was an incredibly small hole and not hint of leaking prior. 

[MB65E]

Goodyear tubes would crack at the seams maybe 5-7 years ago.

-Matt

[vik]

I had two Michelin tubes fail on me, few years back. One day I found one main gear flat. The air put in leaked out right away. The hissing sound was heard close to the valve steam. Examination showed that the valve steam almost separated due to the rotten rubber around it. I recently installed new tires and new tubes. The manufacturing date on the tube confirmed that it was about one year old.

Sure enough, I took apart the other two wheels to check. The other main one had the same problem and was ready to give up ghost air.   The manufacturing date indicated it was about 1.5 years old. The nose one was a different size (5x500) and did not show this problem, but I replaced it anyway. Chief Aircraft refused to exchange tubes under the warranty. Still keep the tubes as a souvenir.

Not surprising that I stay away from Michelin tires and tubes. I also had Michelin car tires develop a bulge on a side several times. But those are different tires and a different failure mode most likely. I stay away from Michelin tires. We are probably incompatible.  And I never purchased anything at Chief Aircraft again. Not saying that other distributors would honor the warranty. I only know that Chief Aircraft did not.

Vik

 

[gwav8or]

On 9/6/2024 at 6:36 AM, Z W said:

I'll add too - after this I ordered spare tubes, one in the size for the nose and one in the size for the mains, and keep them on the shelf in my hangar.  Later on I had a bald spot appear on a tire and got spares of those too.  Both are sold at different qualities and price points.  If you just ask a shop to fix it without specifying you won't know what you're getting.  Canceling a trip is inconvenient.  Landing with a flat tire could total your airplane or even hurt someone.

Yep, I ordered the tire and tube I wanted.  I'll take it to the mechanic on Monday and will ask him to look for a pinchpoint on the tube.  Also, since this tire and tube are less than a year old, I'll ask if they use talc when installing.

Edited September 7 by gwav8or