Should I buy a Mooney?

[jonh]

[rbridges]

it may help if you post your location.  I know things like hangar costs vary considerably, and you may have someone nearby to help with figures.  also, planes that do well in the flat lower elevations (like Georgia) may not do well in higher elevations out west, for example. 

another piece of advice, you will probably need an instrument rating to fly long distances.  It's a rare occasion when you can cover 1000 miles and not run into some type of cloud cover.  You also need the same clear skies on the return trip.

There are a lot of "first plane" threads.  Do a search, and you will see a lot of good info b/c there is a ton that you need to learn before buying a plane.

 

[danb35]

What size are the 4 people?  A family of four adults will likely be kind of tight in a Mooney for any significant period of time (and a 1000 nm trip will take a significant amount of time).  Two adults and two kids would be fine, at least until the kids grow up.  Cargo/baggage space may also be an issue, particularly if you're planning on staying a long time.

Save money - Maybe, depending on how you work the numbers.  If you count only direct operating costs (gas & oil), probably so.  For a 2000 nm round trip, one fuel stop each way, you'll be burning about 150 gal. of fuel and flying about 14-15 hours.  At $6/gal, that's $900 in gas.  You might need a quart or two in oil over that time, but that cost would be minimal.  If, instead, you add up all your ownership costs (parking, maintenance, insurance, carrying costs, etc.), and divide by the number of hours flown, you'll come up with a very different number.

Save time - quite possibly.  You could make a 1000 nm trip in about 7.5 hours of air time, and you'd need a fuel stop.  How long that fuel stop takes is largely up to you--30 minutes is probably a minimum, and you (and/or the family) may want to take a bit more time to stretch the legs, use the restroom, etc.  Other variables would be the distance to the airport on each end, and the possibility of weather delays.

Flexibility - Definite yes, weather permitting.

For $80k, you could easily get a nice M20F, and probably a decent M20J.  The J would be preferred, all other things being equal, due to being newer and faster on the same fuel burn (10-15 kts faster).  You'd really want an IFR GPS (WAAS preferred) and a capable autopilot, and your family may have something to say about general appearance.

Other ownership costs are a definite issue.  Some of the biggies are maintenance, insurance, parking (hangar or tie-down), and loan payments if you finance the plane.  Mx is widely variable.  I've had very little unscheduled Mx in the 4 years I've owned '48Q, maybe $2k worth.  My last two annuals were under $1k each, but I was working on them with my A&P.  My first two were $2k-3k unassisted.  It's commonly recommended to set aside a fair portion of the purchase price (I've seen numbers from 5%-20%) of the plane for unexpected maintenance the first year.  If you're mechanically inclined, you can do a lot of the routine maintenance on the plane yourself, and you can do anything with your A&P's approval and under his supervision.

Insurance will depend a lot on you--what ratings, how many hours (total, complex, and Mooney), any negative history.  I paid around $1800 for my first year (4 years ago) with 80 hours, no instrument rating, no appreciable complex or Mooney time, for a $66k hull value.  Now, a little over 400 hours, 350 complex/Mooney, and an instrument rating, I just renewed for $1k

Hope this helps--good luck!

[DaV8or]

Basically you are talking about getting a family airliner and replacing the airlines. When contemplating this option, you have to consider how flexible you and your family are on scheduling. If you need to arrive and depart on a very dependable, and reliable schedule, stick with the airlines. If you have the flexibility to delay a day or two on either end of your trip, than a Mooney could work out as long as everyone in the family is on board with the challenges of GA flying. People pushing the boundries and capabilities of piston singles tend to lead to dead families.

[Jeff_S]

I voted that you should buy a Mooney, but that's because, well, you just should! But I don't think it will realistically help you meet your goals. Sounds like you'd need some type of pressurized turbo-prop for that. 

[KFlyer]

Would you be learning to fly in this plane or do you have your license?

[KFlyer]

Dual Post.

[KFlyer]

Dual Post.

[johnggreen]

Jonh,

There are many good, valid reasons to purchase an airplane, and good, valid reasons (depending on your mission profiles) to purchase a Mooney.  I encourage you to explore them.

On the other hand, you have set forth a fairly definite profile of what is driving your investigation of purchasing a Mooney.  You want to purchase an $80,000 Mooney to transport four people over 1000 miles, with increased flexibility as to when you go (and arrive I assume), save time over the airlines, and do so with a cost savings over airline tickets.

I mean no insult or offense to anyone by my answer.  You asked a question and you want (I assume) and deserve an honest response.

Here is mine:  preposterous.

The scenario you propose and the benefits therefrom are so far from reality as to be pure fantasy.

I'm sorry.

Jgreen

[kris_adams]

Yeah, I'm in agreement with Jgreen on this one.  Your mission profile would fit something like a 500 mile trip much better.  Otherwise I think you need a TBM and a few more zero's on your budget.

[201er]

You can't buy a plane to save money. It's practically unheard of. You do it cause you love to fly and would rather spend more time/money to do it yourself than to fly coach with the rest of the suckers.

[bnicolette]

I have to agree with the majority, especially Jeff in that "you should buy a Mooney, but that's because, you just should".

If you're trying to justify it financially or for time management, I would definitely stick with the airlines.  However, the airlines aren't nearly as much fun for us pilots.

[pjsny78]

Quote: Bnicolette

I have to agree with the majority, especially Jeff in that "you should buy a Mooney, but that's because, you just should".

If you're trying to justify it financially or for time management, I would definitely stick with the airlines.  However, the airlines are nearly as much fun for us pilots.

[GeorgePerry]

[johnggreen]

George,

Very sage advice.

As a CFII, I am approached on a regualr basis by people who profess an interest in learning to fly.  As much as I want to promote GA, after questioning them as to their motives, needs, wants, time, and financial ability, it is the rare person that I encourage to go forward.  The limitations of equipment and pilot skill must be taken seriously from the very beginning or huge disappointments will be in store.

I have a FIKI Bravo, 6,000 hours of flying experience, and regularly have to make a 700 nm trip to DC right up the Apppalachian Valley.  Fortunately, I know the limitations of both my airplane and of its pilot.  Low IFR, thunderstorms, ground induced turbulence in the mountains, and 50 knot headwinds in the winter, dictate that 1/3 of the time "Delta is ready when you are".

Anyway, we are, I think, on the same page.  I most often see real value in your comments and have often wanted to compliment, so take this as that compliment.

As a Navy pilot, you are apparently living my dream.  Growing up, all I ever wanted to do was become a military pilot.  I failed the pilot physical during the second year of ROTC on a "temporary" condition brought on by strep throat.  By the time it cleared up, I was married and out of law school.  So much for dreams.

Anyway.  Good luck and get home safe.

Jgreen

[aviatoreb]

My two cents - I got into flying in the first place because I dreamed of puffy clouds and blue sky and flying amongst them.  Get into flying because it is just amazing and your dream.  That is the best reason.  I discovered that it actually can be used as proper transportation SOME of the time only a bit later.  Sounds funny that but the "try it" demo flights I had previously had starting as a young kid always been local sight seeing missions and it sort of gave me the impression that was all the was to flying small airplanes - and that was just great as I got into it with that in mind.  Now I have a speedster airplane because its just plane cool (pun intended).  Oh and I can get places fast.  The really cool thing about using the airplane to travel is I replace 8 hrs of boring driving for 1+hrs of what seems like the thing I would rather do and be and what I would do on the weekend anyway if I didn't need to be somewhere - just fun!

As already said, your mission profile stretches the limits of do-able - as stated quite well by several pilots with way more hours and experience than me.  More even than the distance is the expectation of the regularity and reliability - since a fact is that weather and sometimes severe weather happens, and an axiom of that statement is that flying east to west over long distances usually guarantees some kind of interesting weather.  

Most of all I worry about getting into flying mostly for the purpose of the mission of making a schedule.  I think that is more likely the halmark of a dangerous pilot - meaning unwilling to wait and fly another day - or at least a few hours later.

Quote: nosky2high

A little bragging;  Over the past 11months we've flown our M20C over 190hrs with all four seats filled 65% of the time and at least two seats filled 95% of the time. Our usual weekend flights are 170nm (one way) so going round trip twice on a weekend is usually just over 5hrs of flight time to facilitate a weekend visit with my kids. Well worth it since the drive is 4.5hrs (one way).

[jonh]

[rbridges]

I don't think anyone is trying to be curt by telling you to search.  There are around 10 questions that come up often, and yours is one of them.  Flying is great but it definitely has its limitations.

If you do decide to pursue a mooney, this board has a ton of info available.  I got so much misinformation at the local airport until I came across this website.

[fantom]

[DaV8or]

Jeez! Are we turning into the Red Board already?? Welcome Jonh to our forums. IMO, the search button is not a required entry manuever. Just about every topic has been discussed, so if everyone just clicked search and got their answer, the forums would slow down and die. If some find the same ol' same ol' topic boring, no need to respond or even read for that matter.

[johnggreen]

Dave,

I was going to write the same thing and you beat me to it.  Part of the value of this forum to a "newbie" is that he gets a give and take with older members.  Some become real participants, others do not.

On a similar note and something that I wrote on another thread, I think this would be a much better forum if it was required that everyone use their real name.  Sometimes we are all guilty of being flippant or rude (ususally unintentionally) when we are sitting before a computer screen with most of the "human" elements removed from our interaction.

Should I ever fall into that trap "again" you have my permission to smite me and ask for an apology.

Jgreen

[danb35]

You sound more like a Cirrus driver to me but it doesn't look like you could afford one.

[kris_adams]

Great point everyone...welcome Jon.

[GeorgePerry]

[danb35]

Quote: danb35

You sound more like a Cirrus driver to me but it doesn't look like you could afford one.