What's the gameplan when Garmin no longer supports the G1000

[NickG]

Eventually, Garmin will end support for the G1000. My understanding is that the G1000 is part of the type certification for later Mooneys. Any idea what will happen when these systems reach end of life? 

[Fly Boomer]

16 minutes ago, NickG said:

Eventually, Garmin will end support for the G1000. My understanding is that the G1000 is part of the type certification for later Mooneys. Any idea what will happen when these systems reach end of life? 

What happened to the GNS-430?

[Danb]

How bout when 100LL is gone, enjoy everything while we have it..

[NickG]

12 minutes ago, Danb said:

How bout when 100LL is gone, enjoy everything while we have it..

True!

[EricJ]

1 hour ago, NickG said:

Eventually, Garmin will end support for the G1000. My understanding is that the G1000 is part of the type certification for later Mooneys. Any idea what will happen when these systems reach end of life? 

A 337 with a DER or field approval is always possible to update those systems to whatever is available at the time.    It's work and expense, but not horribly different than a typical panel overhaul, anyway.

[toto]

Presumably the Avidnye Entegra system was on the type certificate for Cirrus aircraft, and today those can be replaced with an upgraded Avidyne unit -- might be a business opportunity for Garmin to replace a whole bunch of legacy G1000 systems.

https://www.avidyne.com/avidyne-announces-vantage-flight-display-systems-unveils-cirrus-upgrade-program/

 

ETA:  There's already a similar upgrade path from Garmin:

https://mooneyspace.com/topic/38195-g1000-to-nxi-upgrade/

 

Fortunately Garmin is a (relatively) thriving company and isn't likely to go anywhere soon..

[EarthboundMisfit]

4 hours ago, NickG said:

Eventually, Garmin will end support for the G1000. My understanding is that the G1000 is part of the type certification for later Mooneys. Any idea what will happen when these systems reach end of life? 

 

Good question.  I plan to ask these guys in May. 

[NickG]

1 hour ago, toto said:

Presumably the Avidnye Entegra system was on the type certificate for Cirrus aircraft, and today those can be replaced with an upgraded Avidyne unit -- might be a business opportunity for Garmin to replace a whole bunch of legacy G1000 systems.

https://www.avidyne.com/avidyne-announces-vantage-flight-display-systems-unveils-cirrus-upgrade-program/

 

ETA:  There's already a similar upgrade path from Garmin:

https://mooneyspace.com/topic/38195-g1000-to-nxi-upgrade/

 

Fortunately Garmin is a (relatively) thriving company and isn't likely to go anywhere soon..

Well, if you speak to Cirrus owners with the old Avidyne displays, they'll tell you the replacement system (Vantage) has been promised for years and still not delivered. They've been taking deposits though...

[toto]

4 minutes ago, NickG said:

Well, if you speak to Cirrus owners with the old Avidyne displays, they'll tell you the replacement system (Vantage) has been promised for years and still not delivered. They've been taking deposits though...

Oh? Interesting - I thought it was already available for upgrade. 

[takair]

I’m thinking vacuum pumps and gyros will come back into style. That’s why I’m holding out. 

[Schllc]

8 hours ago, NickG said:

Eventually, Garmin will end support for the G1000. My understanding is that the G1000 is part of the type certification for later Mooneys. Any idea what will happen when these systems reach end of life? 

There are thousands of planes out there with g1000 systems and they will be supported long into the foreseeable future because it is profitable.  Someone told me recently that garmin said they aren’t supporting them now, this is complete bs.  The only limitation they have is with the waas boxes, which requires people wanting them to find salvage. 
Once you have them Garmin will service them as they will 100% of the system, and the rates are very reasonable and make repairs much quicker. 
the interesting thing about all the hangar talk regarding the g1000 is usually driven by people who have not owned one. I have owned them for eight years and recently I put the latest and greatest 500txi, 750, 650, 275 etc in my Aerostar.  It does a few things my g1000 won’t do, but nothing critical,  and it doesn’t have anything I miss when I’m flying the g1000 except for flight stream. 
I really loath the touch screens, they are very difficult for data input in the air. And some of the buttons, especially the radio buttons are so tiny they arent convenient even in smooth air or on the ground. 
some tactile buttons and knobs are preferable to me…

I don’t really see it as an upgrade from the g1000 at all, and if I could have paid to put the g1000 in the Aerostar I would have!

All planes that had the money to engineer platforms  with the g1000 will eventually be eligible for the NXI.  Again, because the number make it practical. 
I never felt like if a plane had the g1000 it was a detriment because the lack of a path to upgrade is irrelevant when what you have is already awesome. 
if you really want to know the low down about a g1000, talk to people who own one. 
I have yet to meet anyone that owns one that doesn’t love it, and sing its praises. 
I have also had two with the NXI, and the changes aren’t really substantial enough to make me miss..

I know a lot of guys here disagree, but none of them that have chimed in so far, have actually owned one, so take both sides with a grain of salt..

[NickG]

10 hours ago, Schllc said:

There are thousands of planes out there with g1000 systems and they will be supported long into the foreseeable future because it is profitable.  Someone told me recently that garmin said they aren’t supporting them now, this is complete bs.  The only limitation they have is with the waas boxes, which requires people wanting them to find salvage. 
Once you have them Garmin will service them as they will 100% of the system, and the rates are very reasonable and make repairs much quicker. 
the interesting thing about all the hangar talk regarding the g1000 is usually driven by people who have not owned one. I have owned them for eight years and recently I put the latest and greatest 500txi, 750, 650, 275 etc in my Aerostar.  It does a few things my g1000 won’t do, but nothing critical,  and it doesn’t have anything I miss when I’m flying the g1000 except for flight stream. 
I really loath the touch screens, they are very difficult for data input in the air. And some of the buttons, especially the radio buttons are so tiny they arent convenient even in smooth air or on the ground. 
some tactile buttons and knobs are preferable to me…

I don’t really see it as an upgrade from the g1000 at all, and if I could have paid to put the g1000 in the Aerostar I would have!

All planes that had the money to engineer platforms  with the g1000 will eventually be eligible for the NXI.  Again, because the number make it practical. 
I never felt like if a plane had the g1000 it was a detriment because the lack of a path to upgrade is irrelevant when what you have is already awesome. 
if you really want to know the low down about a g1000, talk to people who own one. 
I have yet to meet anyone that owns one that doesn’t love it, and sing its praises. 
I have also had two with the NXI, and the changes aren’t really substantial enough to make me miss..

I know a lot of guys here disagree, but none of them that have chimed in so far, have actually owned one, so take both sides with a grain of salt..

I’ve been flying Cirrus’ on and off the last few years so have plenty of experience with the g1000 (or Perspective and Perspective+ as Cirrus calls it). It is in indeed a great system. AS someone who’s new to the Mooney world, I was surprised by the number of non was G1000 systems and the difficulty and cost in getting the upgrade - hence the question as the next logical thought is what, if any is the upgrade path. I’m sure people that had the Avidyne Entegra in the older Gen Ciruses didn’t think they’d need to upgrade, but its now a major factor in used Cirrus pricing - compare the price for a used Cirrus with an Entegra system to those with a Persepctive system….

[Schllc]

3 hours ago, NickG said:

I’ve been flying Cirrus’ on and off the last few years so have plenty of experience with the g1000 (or Perspective and Perspective+ as Cirrus calls it). It is in indeed a great system. AS someone who’s new to the Mooney world, I was surprised by the number of non was G1000 systems and the difficulty and cost in getting the upgrade - hence the question as the next logical thought is what, if any is the upgrade path. I’m sure people that had the Avidyne Entegra in the older Gen Ciruses didn’t think they’d need to upgrade, but its now a major factor in used Cirrus pricing - compare the price for a used Cirrus with an Entegra system to those with a Persepctive system….

Fair enough, but I flew a few cirrus with that avidyne system and to say it sucked was an understatement. Also the difficulty they had was switching to an entirely different platform. If Mooney got serious about certifying the NXI it would be relatively easy.
or if Mooney goes belly up, Garmin can do it on its own.
The salient point is that the system doesn’t need to be upgraded because it is robust, reliable and wonderful, just as it is…

We all have to choose our own comfort level with risk though, so if this is that big of a concern for you, you probably shouldn’t buy one. 
I will happily own one as long as I can. 
 

[NickG]

1 hour ago, Schllc said:

Fair enough, but I flew a few cirrus with that avidyne system and to say it sucked was an understatement. Also the difficulty they had was switching to an entirely different platform. If Mooney got serious about certifying the NXI it would be relatively easy.
or if Mooney goes belly up, Garmin can do it on its own.
The salient point is that the system doesn’t need to be upgraded because it is robust, reliable and wonderful, just as it is…

We all have to choose our own comfort level with risk though, so if this is that big of a concern for you, you probably shouldn’t buy one. 
I will flash own one as long as I can. 
 

No, not really uncomfortable. Just posing the question to see what Mooney owners’ thoughts were about this. The G1000 is a fantastic system and I’d have not problem with the WAAS version.

[Schllc]

2 hours ago, NickG said:

No, not really uncomfortable. Just posing the question to see what Mooney owners’ thoughts were about this. The G1000 is a fantastic system and I’d have not problem with the WAAS version.

The waas upgrade is not as difficult as some would have you believe.  You do have to wait until some gia63w boxes come onto the market, but its a relatively simple swap that costs about $2500 if you already have a 345 transponder with adsb in and out.  If you don't have this you have to install an additional antenna, but that is all thats required.

I have personally done it on two planes.  It wasn't hard, and it wasn't $50k

[LANCECASPER]

20 hours ago, EarthboundMisfit said:

 

Good question.  I plan to ask these guys in May. 

Garmin will tell you when you ask them that it is up to Mooney to take the next step and do all of the leg work to get this going. 

This has been discussed many, many, many times on Mooneyspace. Do a search for "G1000" and you'll find a lot of discussion about it.

[LANCECASPER]

On 2/22/2024 at 2:17 PM, NickG said:

Eventually, Garmin will end support for the G1000. My understanding is that the G1000 is part of the type certification for later Mooneys. Any idea what will happen when these systems reach end of life? 

This has been discussed many, many, many times on Mooneyspace. Do a search for "G1000" and you'll find a lot of discussion about it.

[NickG]

1 hour ago, Schllc said:

The waas upgrade is not as difficult as some would have you believe.  You do have to wait until some gia63w boxes come onto the market, but its a relatively simple swap that costs about $2500 if you already have a 345 transponder with adsb in and out.  If you don't have this you have to install an additional antenna, but that is all thats required.

I have personally done it on two planes.  It wasn't hard, and it wasn't $50k

Why am I hearing that its 28k to for the WAAS upgrade... glad to hear that's not the case.

[Schllc]

1 hour ago, NickG said:

Why am I hearing that its 28k to for the WAAS upgrade... glad to hear that's not the case.

2500 was for the labor to install. The boxes are a different story. I bought the first set for about 12k. The second set was 16k. Not sure what they are now. 
28k is not outlandish but you would have to source the boxes yourself  to get that price 

[exM20K]

18 hours ago, NickG said:

Why am I hearing that its 28k to for the WAAS upgrade... glad to hear that's not the case.

I doubt there are many G1000 installations out there without WAAS today. 
For some owners, WAAS doesn’t meaningfully improve utility.  I’d focus on the right plane for the mission first and then on the particular avionics. YMMV.

-dan

[NickG]

3 hours ago, exM20K said:

I doubt there are many G1000 installations out there without WAAS today. 
For some owners, WAAS doesn’t meaningfully improve utility.  I’d focus on the right plane for the mission first and then on the particular avionics. YMMV.

-dan

That’s what I’m doing (it’s not my first plane purchase) I was just trying to figure out the upgrade limitations/restrictions/limits of the G1000 as part of the TC. Since I really don’t want to buy another aircraft after this one I’m thinking out into the future for upgrades/obsolesence.

[jetdriven]

On 2/22/2024 at 6:14 PM, toto said:

Presumably the Avidnye Entegra system was on the type certificate for Cirrus aircraft, and today those can be replaced with an upgraded Avidyne unit -- might be a business opportunity for Garmin to replace a whole bunch of legacy G1000 systems.

https://www.avidyne.com/avidyne-announces-vantage-flight-display-systems-unveils-cirrus-upgrade-program/

 

ETA:  There's already a similar upgrade path from Garmin:

https://mooneyspace.com/topic/38195-g1000-to-nxi-upgrade/

 

Fortunately Garmin is a (relatively) thriving company and isn't likely to go anywhere soon..

Here is the thing with that, though, Garmin has the airframe manufacturer, basically control all aspects of the upgrade path or software updates or any of that stuff. And if the airframer  is lazy, or does not want to support older air frames to force you to buy newer ones, or just plain doesn’t want to, there is no upgrade path. We already had the same problem with the legacy G1000 and the upgrade to WAAS.  It seemed to be a kind of a limited thing and now they’re not offering it anymore. I do not expect they would offer an upgrade to NXi either.

Edited February 24, 2024 by jetdriven

[EricJ]

Another point of view on that is that the G1000 is a pretty clunky system with respect to the user interface, anyway, especially compared to newer stuff.   If one was going to upgrade it might be worth upgrading to something other than a newer G1000.

 

[jetdriven]

Just now, EricJ said:

Another point of view on that is that the G1000 is a pretty clunky system with respect to the user interface, anyway, especially compared to newer stuff.   If one was going to upgrade it might be worth upgrading to something other than a newer G1000.

 

There is no upgrade path by Mooney to upgrade to a newer G1000 and if you’re talking about ripping it Russia fitting in the entire aircraft that’s going to run into the hundreds of thousands of dollars if it’s even possible. The aircraft is built around that it’s actually part of the type certificate.  
The Cirrus upgrade path with the TXI series displays is 100 grand. And that’s the already certified kit price and it’s been done a bunch of times. If you’ve got to engineer this yourself, I don’t know how it’s gonna go and I’m not sure if anybody’s ever done it before. 
it’s the same thing with cars. You buy a Hyundai with all the connected stuff that updates, the maps and the software over the air, then they announce that they’re ending support for that because 3G is going away or just because they plane old don’t feel like supporting anymore. And then, the fact that your climate controls all your vehicle settings are all integrated through this technology display when that craps out I guess you can just throw  the car away. 

[Schllc]

History is usually a pretty good indicator of future results and if you look at examples like the commander or the Comanche you see how things really unfold. 
Ten or so years ago when shopping for my first plane I was really intrigued by the commander but if you read things on the internet it’s like googling health symptoms. 
I was convinced that they would all be grounded in the next few years and become paperweights. 10 years later they are really in no different position. 
Will support eventually end for the g1000? It’s safe to say yes, it will at some point. 
But in the next 20 years?  That potentiality is slim to none. 
Furthermore, the path to create an upgrade path to the NXI will happen.  The reason is simple, there are enough planes to make it profitable. 
There is also the potential for a field approval to remove the g1000 completely for regular avionics. 
With regard to the age and function of the g1000, I did a major avionic upgrade to my Aerostar recently. 
I put in two 500txi’s, a 750, 650, 825 traffic, 345r tx, a 275, and the garmin EIS. 
I had to use an stec 3100 a because the  gfc600 isn’t approved yet for that airframe. 
I have close to 100 hours behind this new panel with all the fancy touch screens and I will tell you what. If it was possible but 100k more to put in the legacy g1000 into that airplane instead of the new stuff, I would do it in a heartbeat. 
the g1000 is not clunky, or awkward, or outdated at all as far as I’m concerned. 
it is still the epitome of what a glass cockpit should be. I absolutely hate the touch screens with no tactile options and the only thing I miss is the flight steam option.