Batteryminder Y connector permanent connection?

[r0ckst4r]

I recently ditched my last Gill battery and now have two 24V Concorde batteries.  I bought a Y adapter to connect both batteries to my Battery Minder but I was thinking of a trying a semi-permanent option to replace constantly putting the alligator clips on and off.  Is it possible to leave ring connectors on both batteries connected to the Y adapter (not connected to the battery minder)  at all times even during flight?  Or is it not safe to have that connection there?  I ask because if I leave those connections there I can see if a plug can be fabricated to connect to the Y adapter which would be easily accessible to plug and unplug the minder without removing the battery panel everytime.  Just a thought.  If not possible I'll just have to suffer through removing the panel everytime.

[Fly Boomer]

19 minutes ago, r0ckst4r said:

I recently ditched my last Gill battery and now have two 24V Concorde batteries.  I bought a Y adapter to connect both batteries to my Battery Minder but I was thinking of a trying a semi-permanent option to replace constantly putting the alligator clips on and off.  Is it possible to leave ring connectors on both batteries connected to the Y adapter (not connected to the battery minder)  at all times even during flight?  Or is it not safe to have that connection there?  I ask because if I leave those connections there I can see if a plug can be fabricated to connect to the Y adapter which would be easily accessible to plug and unplug the minder without removing the battery panel everytime.  Just a thought.  If not possible I'll just have to suffer through removing the panel everytime.

VDC says:

WE NO LONGER ADVISE USE OF THE RING TERMINAL ASSEMBLY (RTA) ON ANY BATTERY WHILE BATTERY IS LOCATED WITHIN A CONFINED AREA, SUCH AS IN AN AIRCRAFT ENGINE COMPARTMENT. BATTERY SHOULD BE REMOVED OR OPEN TO FREE FLOWING AIR TO AVOID POSSIBLE BUILD-UP OF HARMFUL HYDROGEN GAS SHOULD BATTERY HAVE A SHORTED CELL(S) OR CHARGING SOURCE IS INCORRECT OR MALFUNCTIONS. REFER TO YOUR BATTERY MANUFACTURER’S RECOMMENDATIONS ON CHARGING A BATTERY WITHIN THE AIRCRAFT FOR FURTHER INFORMATION.

See p.14 of https://www.batteryminders.com/content/manuals/24041-AA-S2-S3-S5.pdf

[Rick Junkin]

38 minutes ago, r0ckst4r said:

Is it possible to leave ring connectors on both batteries connected to the Y adapter (not connected to the battery minder)  at all times even during flight?  Or is it not safe to have that connection there?

I don't believe you want to have the y-connector in place and connected to both batteries unless you are actively charging the batteries on the ground. It connects the batteries together in parallel, which defeats the function of the BATT 1 /  BATT 2 select switch.

Cheers,
Rick

[LANCECASPER]

When I had only one Battery Minder I always ran separate lines to a port outside of the airplane and then hooked up the Y to the line coming from the Minder. They were never hooked together inside of the airplane. 

[Marc_B]

I remember @donkaye having a set up with dual battery but using a different connection so that neither battery was attached in parallel, but that it was a single connection coming out of the aircraft.  That might be what you're looking for.  Perhaps he can weigh in!

[Brandt]

 https://www.batteryminders.com/batteryminder-accessory-bm-aik2a-airframe-interface-kit-for-use-with-faa-certified-aircraft/

I had two of these hard mounted to the top of the avionics rack and use two battery minders.  Yes, you have to fiddle with the battery panel, but the quick disconnect is great and I can monitor the health of both batteries independently.  Strongly suggest this.  

[Fritz1]

I use two of the airframe interface kits, one for for each battery, I think the the plugs are called Anderson plugs. I only have one battery minder and parallel the batteries when charging with an external battery minder Y-interface. My batteries are Concords that have the same age. I use the minder when I am working on the avionics in the hangar, with the batteries externally paralled I can draw down both batteries which gives 20 Ah. My Anderson plugs are mounted in the TKS door. I have seen them mounted on the hat rack or on the rear cabin wall. The battery minder gives you about 4 Amps, in combination with 20 Ah from the batteries this gives you enough power to run the avionics for about 2h depending on your draw.

[r0ckst4r]

3 hours ago, Fly Boomer said:

VDC says:

WE NO LONGER ADVISE USE OF THE RING TERMINAL ASSEMBLY (RTA) ON ANY BATTERY WHILE BATTERY IS LOCATED WITHIN A CONFINED AREA, SUCH AS IN AN AIRCRAFT ENGINE COMPARTMENT. BATTERY SHOULD BE REMOVED OR OPEN TO FREE FLOWING AIR TO AVOID POSSIBLE BUILD-UP OF HARMFUL HYDROGEN GAS SHOULD BATTERY HAVE A SHORTED CELL(S) OR CHARGING SOURCE IS INCORRECT OR MALFUNCTIONS. REFER TO YOUR BATTERY MANUFACTURER’S RECOMMENDATIONS ON CHARGING A BATTERY WITHIN THE AIRCRAFT FOR FURTHER INFORMATION.

See p.14 of https://www.batteryminders.com/content/manuals/24041-AA-S2-S3-S5.pdf

I wonder why they specify ring terminals and not alligator clips?  Are alligator clips somehow immune to this problem and can used to charge in a confined space without hydrogen gas buildup?

[Fly Boomer]

4 minutes ago, r0ckst4r said:

I wonder why they specify ring terminals and not alligator clips?  Are alligator clips somehow immune to this problem and can used to charge in a confined space without hydrogen gas buildup?

Only thing that comes to mind is that, to use clips on the battery terminals, you would have to open the battery box.  Just a guess.

[Will.iam]

1 hour ago, r0ckst4r said:

I wonder why they specify ring terminals and not alligator clips?  Are alligator clips somehow immune to this problem and can used to charge in a confined space without hydrogen gas buildup?

Well the spark from when the alligator clip touches the battery post lights off any  hydrogen gas so you start out with no hydrogen buildup. Just kidding i have no idea why the difference. 

[JimK]

I agree with Fritz1.  I have a similar setup with an RTA-2415 accessory connection cord hard-wired to each of my two Concord batteries on my Ovation 3.  Both of the Battery Minder SAE plugs on these connectors are zip tied to the mounting bracket behind the oxygen service door.  It is a very convenient setup because I just open the oxygen service door, pull out the two connectors a few inches and connect them to the 210-AY multi battery connector which I leave connected to my Battery Minder charger.  This setup keeps the two batteries isolated from each other and makes it quick and easy to connect the charger after a flight.

[donkaye]

On 2/17/2024 at 2:35 PM, Marc_B said:

I remember @donkaye having a set up with dual battery but using a different connection so that neither battery was attached in parallel, but that it was a single connection coming out of the aircraft.  That might be what you're looking for.  Perhaps he can weigh in!

See my website for my Battery Minder setup with battery switch box for initial conditioning of each battery.  www.donkaye.com

[Rick Junkin]

Here's another way to do it @r0ckst4r .

I used two VDC Airframe Interface kits and attached them to the relay connections on each battery (heavy red wires in the pictures). I ran the fused wiring out through the TKS filler port door panel and bolted the two SB50 connectors inside the TKS door. That way I can connect the BatteryMinder to each battery individually if I need to get them conditioned separately and then add in the Y-connector to keep them both on trickle charge. Folks have done essentially the same thing with the smaller connectors run to the O2 service door.

I also mounted a 6 outlet electrical power strip to the side of a service cart on which I have my BatteryMinder, White Lightning GPU and engine dehydrator.  It's plugged in to a retractable extension cord that is mounted to the hangar wall. I post flight the airplane, push it back into the hangar, roll the cart up behind the left wing and connect the BatteryMinder and the engine dehydrator. Takes less than 5 minutes and I leave knowing that if something keeps me from flying for more than a week or two the airplane will be ok when I can get there. During preflight I disconnect the charger and dehydrator and push the cart back against the wall with no extension cords to clean up or trip over. Super simple and keeps things clean and organized.

Cheers,
Rick

[dkkim73]

@Rick Junkin

Junkman, 

Are you still liking that installation arrangement?

Now that I've had the plane a bit and have gone through the schematics, I'm circling back to this task. Thinking that the best mix of cost-effective, clean, and good prevention is to start with one BatteryMinder, 2 certified install kits, and the manufacturer's Y-connector (looks like it limits cross-current IIUC). Then can charge/condition each battery and then Y them together for maintenance with the S5 connector. Post-flight, as long as the cross-battery trickle charge is working, I am thinking can go directly to the Y-connector. 

Unfortunately don't have my own hangar, but boarding at 2 very reasonable places, so I think they will help me with occasional hook-ups. There is some clause in one contract about not leaving things plugged in, but at some point I could get a SwitcheOn and use it to run the minder and the pre-heat separately. 

@Brandt

Brandt, similar question.

I know you kept your install more "central" in the tail. Are you still happy with the trade-off of pulling the side panel to hook up or maintain batteries? And do you do it every time you park?

@donkaye's setup is very elegant as well. He has inline fuses so I am thinking it is as safe as the certified setup, and all the non-aircraft parts are transient and outside the airframe to boot. 

Thanks,

David

[Rick Junkin]

49 minutes ago, dkkim73 said:

Junkman, 

Are you still liking that installation arrangement?

Now that I've had the plane a bit and have gone through the schematics, I'm circling back to this task. Thinking that the best mix of cost-effective, clean, and good prevention is to start with one BatteryMinder, 2 certified install kits, and the manufacturer's Y-connector (looks like it limits cross-current IIUC). Then can charge/condition each battery and then Y them together for maintenance with the S5 connector. Post-flight, as long as the cross-battery trickle charge is working, I am thinking can go directly to the Y-connector. 

Hey David. I have no complaints with my setup. I'd do it exactly the same way if I were to install it today.

I check the voltage of each battery after engine shut down to verify they're within 0.5V of each other. If they are, I use the y-connector and I'm done. If they aren't, I use the single plug on the low battery and then switch to the y-connector before I leave or the next time I'm at the hangar. About the only time I can't use the y-connector is when I need power on for more than a few minutes after engine shut down, and that almost never happens.

I usually do my database updates on GPU external power, but I've also done them on battery power. When I use battery power, I unplug the y-connector from the battery I'm NOT using and leave it connected to the battery in use. My avionics only draw 4A so the BatteryMinder can keep up and maintain the charge for the 20-30 minutes the update takes. When I'm finished I plug the y-connector back into the other battery.

Cheers,
Junkman

EDIT: One word of caution - DO NOT leave the BatteryMinder unpowered and connected to your batteries. The sensing circuit in the BatteryMinder will drain your batteries. So plugging the BatteryMinder into a remote switch won't work. 

[Brandt]

56 minutes ago, dkkim73 said:

@Rick Junkin

Junkman, 

Are you still liking that installation arrangement?

Now that I've had the plane a bit and have gone through the schematics, I'm circling back to this task. Thinking that the best mix of cost-effective, clean, and good prevention is to start with one BatteryMinder, 2 certified install kits, and the manufacturer's Y-connector (looks like it limits cross-current IIUC). Then can charge/condition each battery and then Y them together for maintenance with the S5 connector. Post-flight, as long as the cross-battery trickle charge is working, I am thinking can go directly to the Y-connector. 

Unfortunately don't have my own hangar, but boarding at 2 very reasonable places, so I think they will help me with occasional hook-ups. There is some clause in one contract about not leaving things plugged in, but at some point I could get a SwitcheOn and use it to run the minder and the pre-heat separately. 

@Brandt

Brandt, similar question.

I know you kept your install more "central" in the tail. Are you still happy with the trade-off of pulling the side panel to hook up or maintain batteries? And do you do it every time you park?

@donkaye's setup is very elegant as well. He has inline fuses so I am thinking it is as safe as the certified setup, and all the non-aircraft parts are transient and outside the airframe to boot. 

Thanks,

David

I’m very happy with it.  Will post a picture when I get a chance.  But yes, I do pull off the access panel anytime I know the plane is going to sit for more than a couple of days.  Only takes a minute to reinstall the panel, so not a big deal. 

[Fly Boomer]

19 minutes ago, Rick Junkin said:

DO NOT leave the BatteryMinder unpowered and connected to your batteries. The sensing circuit in the BatteryMinder will drain your batteries.

I can't find the instructions for my BatteryMINDer right now, but I thought I had read that this was not a problem.  In particular, if the charger lost power, it would not drain from the battery.  Maybe it depends on which BatteryMINDer you have?

[Rick Junkin]

1 hour ago, Fly Boomer said:

I can't find the instructions for my BatteryMINDer right now, but I thought I had read that this was not a problem.  In particular, if the charger lost power, it would not drain from the battery.  Maybe it depends on which BatteryMINDer you have?

I have a model 244CEC1-S2 I purchased back in 2016. I know of one time that I plugged it into the airplane and forgot to plug the charger into the wall, and I came back to a flat battery about 3 days later.

I took a look through the manuals on the BatteryMINDer web site and couldn't find anything that addressed this. However I did find this in the FAQs:

Q: How long can I leave the BatteryMINDer connected to my battery?

        A: As long as it is plugged in you can leave the BatteryMINDer hooked up to a battery indefinitely.  It will never overcharge or damage your battery. 

 

That implies you can't leave the BatteryMINDer hooked up to your battery if the BatteryMINDer isn't plugged in. That fits with my experience.

 

Cheers,
Junkman

[Fly Boomer]

10 minutes ago, Rick Junkin said:

That implies you can't leave the BatteryMINDer hooked up to your battery if the BatteryMINDer isn't plugged in. That fits with my experience.

I'll dig harder for my documentation, and let you know.  I have left mine plugged in for days.  That said, eventually both my batteries failed a capacity check, so is it just correlation or is it causality?

[Fly Boomer]

30 minutes ago, Rick Junkin said:

That implies you can't leave the BatteryMINDer hooked up to your battery if the BatteryMINDer isn't plugged in. That fits with my experience.

Well, I located my documentation, and it says:
"be sure if outlet is controlled by a switch, no one will accidentally shut off the power to the outlet"
But it doesn't exactly say what will happen if the power is off.

[EricJ]

At a minimum when the minder is unplugged the battery will drive the "Battery Connected" indicator LED on the minder.   That takes a miniscule amount of current, but it is a draw so over a very long term it'll draw off some current.

[Shadrach]

I have inadvertently unplugged mine and the battery does not drive any of the lights. It was unplugged for nearly a week and had no noticeable effect on the battery charge level.

[EricJ]

8 hours ago, Shadrach said:

I have inadvertently unplugged mine and the battery does not drive any of the lights. It was unplugged for nearly a week and had no noticeable effect on the battery charge level.

I unplug the minder before disconnecting the battery, and connect the battery before plugging it back in per the BatteryMinder manual.    The Battery Connection light comes on if the battery is connected, whether the minder is plugged in or not on mine.

 

[GeeBee]

 

[Brandt]

My setup.