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[N201MKTurbo]

21 hours ago, Fly Boomer said:

Interestingly, the electrical impulses generated by typing on your keyboard can be detected and interpreted.

And when our computers had CRT monitors, you could receive the emissions from the CRT and reconstruct the image on the screen from (I was told) 2 miles away. 

[Fly Boomer]

8 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

And when our computers had CRT monitors, you could receive the emissions from the CRT and reconstruct the image on the screen from (I was told) 2 miles away. 

Wow!  I had not heard that before.

[N201MKTurbo]

9 minutes ago, Fly Boomer said:

Wow!  I had not heard that before.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Eck_phreaking

[wombat]

Some clarifications/corrections:

You *can* take pictures of people's license plates and keep them in a database as long as you want. You are even free to sell access to it if you want.    There are some restrictions on what government entities can do in this regard, but those restrictions are for the government and not for you as a citizen or resident.  

A raspberry Pi is a single board computer, or SBC.  It's just a small computer. The most common version is a little smaller than the palm of your hand.  Not very fast or capable compared to modern PCs but perfectly capable of quite a lot of interesting things.    You can plug cameras into them, or software defined radio receivers.  Or both.      There is pre-built software to use these radios to listen to ADS-B transmissions and forward that data on to sites like flightaware or flightradar24 or others.  They make it quite easy to set up.   You can also get other software for the computer and radios that will forward that data to ForeFlight in your cockpit.  It's called stratux and it is just an easy and cheap ADS-B in system.  The name is a play on "stratus" and it works basically just like a stratus device.    I've assembled about a dozen of these devices, of which 5 are running with cameras, 3 are running with software defined radios listening to ADS-B and forwarding to FlightAware, 3 are in airplanes forwarding to ForeFlight (Well, two of them I've given away so I don't know if they are still in those planes), and one is also running my small alfalfa field's sprinkler system with some add-on hardware called OpenSprinkler.   I'm happy to talk anyone through exactly what to buy and how to assemble it and configure it so they can run a FlightAware station too.  It does give you access to the paid tier of FlightAware so you can see more history and stuff,  which is nice.

Regarding Van Eck phreaking... Yeah, that's true... But also, you can do something similar to LCDs.  If things are lined up..  Just have it facing an open window, and set up a telescope 2 miles away.      When you put it like that, it doesn't sound so crazy, but it's an example "receive the emissions from the CRT and reconstruct the image on the screen".  And it doesn't even have to be a CRT.  You can also do it with LCDs not using visible light. Also, if listen really close, the sound of each key on the keyboard is different, and you can just set up a microphone and tell what people are typing.   All sorts of interesting stuff!

Regarding Blue Force Tracker (BFT).    Yes, it's technically possible some person or organization that is hostile to US Forces could get access to that data, but..... The level of difficulty in getting access to that data at all is above what any organization in the world (including China and Russia) can do and even if they had access,  getting it to a person or group that could take action based on that data in a timely way is also beyond what any organization could do.   Heck, the US Military could barely make use of it, and it's ours and integrated into our systems!   I'll admit that the last time I used that was about 10 years ago, but it was barely useful just because of the delays and frequency of system malfunctions and stuff just dropping out of the network.  But watching trains of smurf turds marching across Iraq was fun.  It would be WAY easier and cheaper and more effective for any hostile force to station a bunch of people to watch along where they expected US Military to go and report in on some in-house made iPad app.  Until we completely stop broadcasting our location by producing sound and being visible, BFT isn't going to be the way someone finds our locations.

 

Edit:  Adding some links to the things I mentioned:

https://opensprinkler.com/product/opensprinkler-pi/

https://www.flightaware.com/adsb/piaware/

https://stratux.me/

https://www.raspberrypi.com/

https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/raspberry-pi-high-quality-camera/

https://www.amazon.com/RTL-SDR-Blog-RTL2832U-Software-Defined/dp/B0BMKZCKTF

[Pinecone]

On 2/13/2024 at 8:25 AM, N201MKTurbo said:

And when our computers had CRT monitors, you could receive the emissions from the CRT and reconstruct the image on the screen from (I was told) 2 miles away. 

That was when and why the Tempest requirements came about.

LOTS of RF leakage from computers.

[N201MKTurbo]

2 hours ago, Pinecone said:

That was when and why the Tempest requirements came about.

LOTS of RF leakage from computers.

The card cage was an electrically and magnetically shielded box with more screws than a Mooney belly. I had to torque all the screws with a certified torque screw driver, then put a sticker over the screws and sign and date it. The CRT, keyboard and card cage were separate shielded boxes. All communications between the boxes was fiber. Any spare parts I put in the system to troubleshoot it went in a burn bag along with any floppy disk I put in it. We made a commercial version of the same machine and I would use the commercial parts for troubleshooting, then order the TEMPEST parts.

The weak point was the printer. They didn’t do much with it. It was a Qume daisy wheel printer. I think if you could detect the pulses from the print head hammer, you could reconstruct the text being printed.

[Echo]

On 2/13/2024 at 10:32 PM, wombat said:

Some clarifications/corrections:

You *can* take pictures of people's license plates and keep them in a database as long as you want. You are even free to sell access to it if you want.    There are some restrictions on what government entities can do in this regard, but those restrictions are for the government and not for you as a citizen or resident.  

A raspberry Pi is a single board computer, or SBC.  It's just a small computer. The most common version is a little smaller than the palm of your hand.  Not very fast or capable compared to modern PCs but perfectly capable of quite a lot of interesting things.    You can plug cameras into them, or software defined radio receivers.  Or both.      There is pre-built software to use these radios to listen to ADS-B transmissions and forward that data on to sites like flightaware or flightradar24 or others.  They make it quite easy to set up.   You can also get other software for the computer and radios that will forward that data to ForeFlight in your cockpit.  It's called stratux and it is just an easy and cheap ADS-B in system.  The name is a play on "stratus" and it works basically just like a stratus device.    I've assembled about a dozen of these devices, of which 5 are running with cameras, 3 are running with software defined radios listening to ADS-B and forwarding to FlightAware, 3 are in airplanes forwarding to ForeFlight (Well, two of them I've given away so I don't know if they are still in those planes), and one is also running my small alfalfa field's sprinkler system with some add-on hardware called OpenSprinkler.   I'm happy to talk anyone through exactly what to buy and how to assemble it and configure it so they can run a FlightAware station too.  It does give you access to the paid tier of FlightAware so you can see more history and stuff,  which is nice.

Regarding Van Eck phreaking... Yeah, that's true... But also, you can do something similar to LCDs.  If things are lined up..  Just have it facing an open window, and set up a telescope 2 miles away.      When you put it like that, it doesn't sound so crazy, but it's an example "receive the emissions from the CRT and reconstruct the image on the screen".  And it doesn't even have to be a CRT.  You can also do it with LCDs not using visible light. Also, if listen really close, the sound of each key on the keyboard is different, and you can just set up a microphone and tell what people are typing.   All sorts of interesting stuff!

Regarding Blue Force Tracker (BFT).    Yes, it's technically possible some person or organization that is hostile to US Forces could get access to that data, but..... The level of difficulty in getting access to that data at all is above what any organization in the world (including China and Russia) can do and even if they had access,  getting it to a person or group that could take action based on that data in a timely way is also beyond what any organization could do.   Heck, the US Military could barely make use of it, and it's ours and integrated into our systems!   I'll admit that the last time I used that was about 10 years ago, but it was barely useful just because of the delays and frequency of system malfunctions and stuff just dropping out of the network.  But watching trains of smurf turds marching across Iraq was fun.  It would be WAY easier and cheaper and more effective for any hostile force to station a bunch of people to watch along where they expected US Military to go and report in on some in-house made iPad app.  Until we completely stop broadcasting our location by producing sound and being visible, BFT isn't going to be the way someone finds our locations.

 

Edit:  Adding some links to the things I mentioned:

https://opensprinkler.com/product/opensprinkler-pi/

https://www.flightaware.com/adsb/piaware/

https://stratux.me/

https://www.raspberrypi.com/

https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/raspberry-pi-high-quality-camera/

https://www.amazon.com/RTL-SDR-Blog-RTL2832U-Software-Defined/dp/B0BMKZCKTF

I have a friend that went to work for E Systems out of college. He had double major in math and Computer Science. I asked him what he did once and he said “I could tell you, but then I would have to kill you”. I laughed and asked again. He said can’t talk about it…

[A64Pilot]

I was briefed years ago that it had gotten to the point that if you had a floor of people using type writers that it was possible by monitoring the buildings power supply to determine everything that was being typed.

As I said it’s possible to monitor conversations being had from a significant distance simply by monitoring the I guess the magnetic field of the pilots microphone, significant as in line of sight distance, so miles.

How practical is that? I’d guess not very

[Pinecone]

On 2/14/2024 at 1:38 PM, N201MKTurbo said:

The card cage was an electrically and magnetically shielded box with more screws than a Mooney belly. I had to torque all the screws with a certified torque screw driver, then put a sticker over the screws and sign and date it. The CRT, keyboard and card cage were separate shielded boxes. All communications between the boxes was fiber. Any spare parts I put in the system to troubleshoot it went in a burn bag along with any floppy disk I put in it. We made a commercial version of the same machine and I would use the commercial parts for troubleshooting, then order the TEMPEST parts.

The weak point was the printer. They didn’t do much with it. It was a Qume daisy wheel printer. I think if you could detect the pulses from the print head hammer, you could reconstruct the text being printed.

You would need to detect the wheel stepper motor to see what position it stopped when being struck.

 

[N201MKTurbo]

23 hours ago, Pinecone said:

You would need to detect the wheel stepper motor to see what position it stopped when being struck.

 

I don’t think so. If you were crafty enough, you could correlate the timing to print wheel positions. It would be kind of like decoding the Enigma. You would need to shift the character set until it started making sense. The print wheel motor was a servo. It could reverse directions to get to the next character. Some cheap daisy wheel printers would just spin the print wheel and fire the hammer when the proper character came by. The Qume would actually stop the wheel then fire the hammer. It had perfect character alignment.  

 

[N201MKTurbo]

This video mentions the Tempest word processor I used to work on.
 

[Hank]

9 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

This video mentions the Tempest word processor I used to work on.
 

The calculator I bought in college in the 80s has a built-in word processor (HP-41CX), and was part of a "portable computer" article in Personal Computing magazine. I still use the calculator every day at work, and bring it home to do my taxes every spring.

[Pinecone]

I am a HUGE fan of the HP-41.  I bought my -41C when it was introduced (worked for HP).  Got the whole set with printer, card reader and the Aviation Pack.

Sold it to a good friend in USAF UPT, and bought a -41CV through a friend who still worked at HP.

Now have a couple of -41CXs around the house.  I have an HP-41CX app for my iPhone and recently found one for my desktop PC free42decimal

 

[Fly Boomer]

17 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

This video mentions the Tempest word processor I used to work on

MicroPro WordStar all the way.

[N201MKTurbo]

13 minutes ago, Fly Boomer said:

MicroPro WordStar all the way.

But that is a PC app. This machine was before there were PCs.

[Fly Boomer]

36 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

But that is a PC app. This machine was before there were PCs.

Nope.  Before PC.  Before Windows.  Before DOS.  I knew the engineering manager in the 70s.  Operating system was CP/M.

[Pinecone]

25 minutes ago, Fly Boomer said:

Nope.  Before PC.  Before Windows.  Before DOS.  I knew the engineering manager in the 70s.  Operating system was CP/M.

Yeap.  I used WordStar on CP/M and TRS-80 machines.

The main PC word processors was Work Perfect until Windows and WP did not switch to WSIWYG.

[EricJ]

1 hour ago, Fly Boomer said:

Nope.  Before PC.  Before Windows.  Before DOS.  I knew the engineering manager in the 70s.  Operating system was CP/M.

I remember that, too.   We had WordStar running on a Cromemco Z-2D that had *gasp* a hard disk in it that had 10 or 20 Mb capacity IIRC.   I loved it because it also had a Fortran compiler that I'd fuss around with.    Until not too long ago I still had some S100 bus memory cards laying around from that, and finally decided they were basically clutter and they went to the recycler.   Not sure what we ever did with the computer, but it was definitely a boat anchor by the time we got rid of it.

WordStar was ahead of its time, though.   I seem to recall I thought it took MS and the other competitors a bit to catch up.

 

 

[Fly Boomer]

1 hour ago, EricJ said:

WordStar was ahead of its time, though.   I seem to recall I thought it took MS and the other competitors a bit to catch up.

In the late 70s and early 80s it had a rabid, cult-like following.  But eventually it fell victim to companies with real engineering, sales, and marketing power.

[Echo]

12 hours ago, Fly Boomer said:

In the late 70s and early 80s it had a rabid, cult-like following.  But eventually it fell victim to companies with real engineering, sales, and marketing power.

Capitalism. Mimicking. Listening to customers. Telling them what they need. This aviation fuel swap could use a little to have competition for pricing. I understand that monopoly and agendas and crushing competition and perhaps an industry (and little guys like me that dabble) are losses that, like Ukraine, are not just accepted, but desirable. 

[Pinecone]

17 hours ago, EricJ said:

I remember that, too.   We had WordStar running on a Cromemco Z-2D that had *gasp* a hard disk in it that had 10 or 20 Mb capacity IIRC.  

10 or 20 MB was a HUGE hard drive.  The original Winchester drives for desktop computers were 5 MB.

I was with HP in 79 - 80 and a 10 MB hard drive had a platter the size of a large pizza.

[DCarlton]

19 hours ago, Fly Boomer said:

Nope.  Before PC.  Before Windows.  Before DOS.  I knew the engineering manager in the 70s.  Operating system was CP/M.

I have an Osborn 1 Portable Computer (with manuals) in my closet if anyone can use it.  Will make anyone on MS a special deal.  It still powers up.  CP/M 2.2.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_1

[Fly Boomer]

4 hours ago, DCarlton said:

I have an Osborn 1 Portable Computer (with manuals) in my closet if anyone can use it.  Will make anyone on MS a special deal.  It still powers up.  CP/M 2.2.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_1

If I wasn't already up to my eyeballs in nostalgia, I would be first in line.  That's a gem.  I think "adequate" was one of Adam Osborne's favorite words.  I recall someone complaining about the screen size, and being told it was "adequate".

[EricJ]

5 minutes ago, Fly Boomer said:

If I wasn't already up to my eyeballs in nostalgia, I would be first in line.  That's a gem.  I think "adequate" was one of Adam Osborne's favorite words.  I recall someone complaining about the screen size, and being told it was "adequate".

So it could be "portable". 

[A64Pilot]

7 hours ago, Echo said:

 are losses that, like Ukraine, are not just accepted, but desirable. 

If it’s not politics, can you explain that?

If it could be considered political maybe send a PM? I’m curious how losing the Ukraine could be desirable