Engine Dehydrator

[Will.iam]

5 hours ago, A64Pilot said:

If you can get and keep RH below 50% I believe rusting of Iron pretty much stops. I cut n pasted this from one site but it’s easily searched, just search iron rusting vs relative humidity.

“Clean iron in pure air does not corrode until the air is practically saturated. However, if the air contains contaminants or pollutants, (even a trace (0.01%) of sulphur dioxide), the critical relative humidity drops to 70%. It is generally accepted that when RH is below 35-45%, no corrosion occurs.”

Except for rare instances I keep the hangar below 65% RH, and as I said my drill press table and vise etc don’t rust anymore, before I dehumidified the hangar they did. 

However almost always I fly weekly at least to Breakfast every Sun, and I think that alone should keep my engine insides clean, but being in Florida I think it prudent to do what I can to cut down on Corrosion.

Attached pic is from Fridays IA renewal class, every year Corrosion comes up, it’s probably in truth the biggest killer of GA aircraft, many accidents are repaired but often corrosion is so extensive that it’s just not repairable, even for helicopters.

I live in the green strip in Fl, so not all of Fl is bad, but the majority of Fl aircraft are kept on the coast.

 

That is the contaminant ratio but not the humidity ratio. There is a reason spare airplanes are parked out in Arizona even though by this cart it’s a moderate contaminate area. I live in a mild contaminant area but my stuff rusts more than if it was in a dry climate. And even though you may be in just a heavy area the humidity in all of Florida is much higher. How ironic that the government put the space shuttle launch site at the highest rate of corrosion in the u.s. 

[A64Pilot]

Screen shots of last years corrosion talk, this one from Lycoming, although I’m not sure on the map 

 

 

[A64Pilot]

Fl coast was chosen as a launch facility primarily due to location, the closer to the Equator the better, and at the time there wasn’t much there but swamp and Ocean of course.

For political reasons Houston Flight Center is in Tx. It’s modern name sort of gives it away  

It’s the infrastructure that takes the beating, launch towers etc. Forever at least in old Science fiction Ecuador was thought to be where we would launch from

The French launch from Guiana because it’s close to the Equator.

I’m sort of surprised that Space-X isn’t launching from the Equator, but Elon for some reason seems to be strongly pro US and Space-X I think is a boost to the economy where it’s located. 

[GeeBee]

Closer you are to equator; less fuel, more payload, less stress on the payload package. 

[Will.iam]

On 1/27/2024 at 9:12 AM, A64Pilot said:

I went flying this morning for about an hour after the fog burned off, By the time I put the 140 in, the mooney, the go,f cart and motorcycle the doors are open I’d guess 15 min so the hangar humidity gets pretty high, right now it’s 70% and I’d assume the AC will run for hours getting it down to 60% where it cuts off.

‘I assume you’re talking about an engine dehumidifier? 50% is actually very low, but is there any harm in running one continuously? They don’t pull much power do they?

Mine pulls 315-415watts per hour.  Not big by a/c units comparison but not insignificant either. 

[Mooney-Shiner]

On 1/21/2024 at 10:52 PM, Alan Maurer said:

Mooney People

Anyone use a Black Max engine dehydrator? I saw one used on a Bonanza. and the tube is put in the engine breather. Since I live in humid Florida, it seems like a good idea. 

And  where is the Ovation engine breather found?  Any thoughts?

Thanks

Alan

I have it. Don't buy it.

Over a year of frustration and unable to get it to keep under 50% RH in the crankcase.

I will write a full write up eventually, but for now I will leave you with this: "build your own desiccant bead dryer with fish tank pump for under $100." 

Here is the link that I used the most

https://www.kitplanes.com/oh-dry-up-engine-dehumidifier/

I also added the car inline fuel filter on the way into the crankcase. Make it early on and improve eventually to add more fancy features. 

PM me if you need me to walk you through the process over the phone. 

[A64Pilot]

15 hours ago, Will.iam said:

Mine pulls 315-415watts per hour.  Not big by a/c units comparison but not insignificant either. 

Assume 400W 

My electric rate is 17c a KWH, so if I do the math right then .4 for KWH x .17 for electric cost is 6.8C x 24 hours in a day = $1.63 per day x 30 days = $48.96 a month.

Not nothing, but it’s not a big number either, and that’s if it never cuts off but runs solid 24x7.

Mine is off now because it’s 57% RH in the hangar, it’s that because it’s 53% RH outside, it’s cool in Fl right now 57F because we got a front through yesterday.

During Winter months it’s often surprisingly dry in N Central Fl, I’ve had weeks of no running the mini-split or dehumidifier.

I estimate and that’s all I can do is guess that on average my cost to dehumidify the hangar year round is about $50 a month on average.

Odd as this may sound but it’s almost always significantly more humid in my house than the hangar. I assume that’s because we shower and cook and breathe in the house. I also don’t run a dehumidifier in the house either.

The above referenced “fish tank pump dehydrator” probably surely less than $5 a month I’d guess.

Actually if I did the math right and if it’s 25W and has a 50% duty cycle it’s a $1.53 a month to run, and less than $100 to build.

[Will.iam]

You might be surprised at how jyst opening the door will let in a lot of humidity. Your hanger is closed until you go in. My latest thing is to blow dehumidified air up through the tank breather line and push the steam out the oil filler opening that way I’m not fighting heat’s natural tendency to rise I’m helping it to move along. Once the air coming out of the engine is not moist about 20 to 30 mins of blowing, i then take off the dehumidifier and close the cap with the engine still hot but with the dry air. What i have found is my RH proven with my RH probe drops even further as the engine cools. Since i have camguard in the oil i will left it like that for 3 to for 4 days if I’m not going to fly the plane again by then i will connect the dehumidifier up and left it regulate the RH from then on. I saw where they did a test and just plain oil would last 4-7 days before a part would start to get rust on the component (an old valve dipped in oil left outside) with camguard it went 21 days and even then it only started rusting at the top where gravity had pulled the camguard down exposing the valve top to the elements. I think it’s a good compromise from a cost vs benefit of having camguard and the dehumidifier. 

[M Terry]

I made my own

 

[glenn reynolds]

I broke my leg so I knew I would not be able to fly for nine weeks.  the normal humidity in my hanger is 97% so i purchased the black max.  Of the two options: desiccant vs refrigerator dryer type (black max type), I did not want to have to dry the desiccant in the kitchen oven every month so black max it is.  

The machine comes with a choice of two sizes of hose "plugs" to allow you to put the dry air hose in either the oil fill/dipstick port or the crankcase breather.  I started with the small plug inserted in the breather.  On my Ovation, the breather is a tee fitting off the oil filler/dipstick and terminates above my tailpipe on the pilot side.  The issue is that ALL crankcase breathers must have an ice hole.  on my io550G this hole is too far up the pipe, past two bends so I couldn't get the dryer air hose and plug past the ice hole.  while i considered taping the hole shut when the dryer is installed, 1) the hole is much too hard to reach with the lower cowling installed.  2) the risk of not removing the tape is too much risk.  So option two:  get a small step platform so you can stand and look down into the oil filler with a flashlight.  you will see the tee for the breather (it actually sticks into the oil fill, which explains why you need a really skinny long funnel to make sure you put new oil BELOW the breather tee and not on your foot via the breather!) I am able to stick the smaller dryer hose plug into the actual oil fill which is below the breather connection.  So far so good.  I'll know in 1,500 hours if my efforts are successful!  

[ChrisFlyer]

On 1/22/2024 at 10:50 AM, Will.iam said:

Just looked at that and compared it to my system it’s twice as expensive and my dehumidifier is rated for a 4000sf room. It blows out a ton of air so i don’t worry about a tight fit over the oil filler tube in fact i like that it’s blowing the excess dry air into the engine compartment getting humidity out of the engine bay area too. I’m sure my unit uses more electricity per hour as it’s an actual a/c unit using coils to capture and remove water from the air. I have a drain hose that goes out under the hanger door and drains outside the hanger. 
to give a reference to how much this thing sucks water out of the air in 4-6 hours i have 1 gallon of water out the drain. 
In fact if my hanger was better sealed i think it would just lower the whole hanger’s humidity but there are just too many drafts to lower it but maybe a few % compared to outside. 

My unit is no longer available but this is a comparable unit cheaper too! When i got mine i used the styrofoam that was protecting the top of the unit and cut out a hole where the vent blows, then i duct taped a home depot square to 4” round hole and bought 6 ft of 4” flexible duct tubing to a 4” down to 3” tube reducer and i put that 3” over the oil filler tube. I think all parts included was $500.

Amazon Basics Dehumidifier - For Areas Up to 4000 Square Feet, 50-Pint, Energy Star Certified, White https://a.co/d/4g95jbz

 

Oh and i plugged the unit into this:

WILLHI 1803-H Humidistat Digital Humidity Controller Dehumidifier Control Max 1650W 110V Greenhouse Growroom Humidity Control Outlet Humidifier and dehumidifier Mode with Sensor 0%~ 100% RH https://a.co/d/bDEacwy

Given that humidity above 40% is terrible for an engine, as in you will cause major damage over time, and really the lower the better, I am curious why you would use a dehumidifier with a low range of 45%? From the specifications listed on the Amazon link you provided: 

• Includes smart dehumidification feature to maintain humidity within a comfortable 45-55% range

[Will.iam]

1 hour ago, ChrisFlyer said:

Given that humidity above 40% is terrible for an engine, as in you will cause major damage over time, and really the lower the better, I am curious why you would use a dehumidifier with a low range of 45%? From the specifications listed on the Amazon link you provided: 

• Includes smart dehumidification feature to maintain humidity within a comfortable 45-55% range

I have learned over time using a humidity monitor humidity is relative. It’s like asking way is my air conditioner only cooling down my house to 80 degrees when it’s 120 outside. They are only good for about a 40 degree delta spread and my humidifier is just an air conditioner without the cooling. When it’s raining and hot (think summertime) humidity will be 90 to 95% in the hanger. With ny humidifier running non stop the best i can bring it down to is 60%.  If it was in an inclosed system like a sealed hanger to where i was dehumidifying already dehumidified air i could bring it further down  but this setting gives the humidifier time to cool down from running a long time. 

[N201MKTurbo]

6 hours ago, Will.iam said:

I have learned over time using a humidity monitor humidity is relative. It’s like asking way is my air conditioner only cooling down my house to 80 degrees when it’s 120 outside. They are only good for about a 40 degree delta spread and my humidifier is just an air conditioner without the cooling. When it’s raining and hot (think summertime) humidity will be 90 to 95% in the hanger. With ny humidifier running non stop the best i can bring it down to is 60%.  If it was in an inclosed system like a sealed hanger to where i was dehumidifying already dehumidified air i could bring it further down  but this setting gives the humidifier time to cool down from running a long time. 

My air conditioner only cools to 80 degrees inside when it is 120 outside because that's where I set it. any cooler and I have to put on a sweater. It will go much colder than that. I think air conditioners have to work much harder in humid areas than here. The latent heat of condensation is much higher than the sensible heat in dry air.

When measuring the delta temperature of an air conditioning system, they usually measure the temperature at the return and the closest outlet duct, so they are measuring the delta of the evaporator. The ability of the condenser to reject heat does affect the efficiency. If you want to supercharge your AC, put a sprinkler next to the condenser.

[Ragsf15e]

44 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

My air conditioner only cools to 80 degrees inside when it is 120 outside because that's where I set it. any cooler and I have to put on a sweater. It will go much colder than that. I think air conditioners have to work much harder in humid areas than here. The latent heat of condensation is much higher than the sensible heat in dry air.

When measuring the delta temperature of an air conditioning system, they usually measure the temperature at the return and the closest outlet duct, so they are measuring the delta of the evaporator. The ability of the condenser to reject heat does affect the efficiency. If you want to supercharge your AC, put a sprinkler next to the condenser.

I thought you guys would just use a swamp cooler.  Adding a little humidity would probably be ok?

[N201MKTurbo]

6 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

I thought you guys would just use a swamp cooler.  Adding a little humidity would probably be ok?

I'm a big fan of swamp coolers. (Pun intended) I have one in my hangar. 

When I was a kid, almost all houses had swamp coolers. Around 1980 they quit building houses with swamp coolers. I don't think you can buy a house with one now. My last house I retrofitted a swamp cooler along with the air conditioner. It had an automatic damper that would open when you turned on the evaporative cooler. 

They work great except between mid July and the end of August. When I was a kid, people would geek out on making their coolers work the best, even into the humid days of August. Adding Up-Ducs, cracking the windows in each room to get the perfect air flow. In May through mid July, they would sometimes over cool and freeze you out, so we would put thermostats on them. The fancy ones would change from high fan speed to low fan speed to off. You get creative with the water flow to limit the salt buildup on the pads. The best thing is to run the water through once and then water your yard with it, but that costs a fortune. The best compromise was to add a water bleed on the recirc pump to pump some water overboard. You still needed to clean or replace the pads at least once a year if not more often.

[Ragsf15e]

10 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I'm a big fan of swamp coolers. (Pun intended) I have one in my hangar. 

When I was a kid, almost all houses had swamp coolers. Around 1980 they quit building houses with swamp coolers. I don't think you can buy a house with one now. My last house I retrofitted a swamp cooler along with the air conditioner. It had an automatic damper that would open when you turned on the evaporative cooler. 

They work great except between mid July and the end of August. When I was a kid, people would geek out on making their coolers work the best, even into the humid days of August. Adding Up-Ducs, cracking the windows in each room to get the perfect air flow. In May through mid July, they would sometimes over cool and freeze you out, so we would put thermostats on them. The fancy ones would change from high fan speed to low fan speed to off. You get creative with the water flow to limit the salt buildup on the pads. The best thing is to run the water through once and then water your yard with it, but that costs a fortune. The best compromise was to add a water bleed on the recirc pump to pump some water overboard. You still needed to clean or replace the pads at least once a year if not more often.

Wait, did you just say Arizona is too humid from july to august??  I wouldn’t have guessed!

Edited April 12, 2024 by Ragsf15e

[EricJ]

4 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

Wait, did you just say Arizona is too dry from july to august??  I wouldn’t have guessed!

Too wet.  That's our monsoon season, generally, and the humidity gets high enough that the swamp coolers don't work very well.

Swamp coolers got deprecated here partly because of aesthetics in new neighborhoods.   I had a swamp cooler at my old house, which we used all the time and only ran the a/c during the monsoon when the humidity got too high, which you knew inherently because suddenly the house wasn't comfortable any more.    We had the current house built 27 years ago and they wouldn't let us put a swamp cooler in...the view was that they're ugly since they're a big, chunky thing that sticks up from the roof and is hard to hide.   They don't work as well if they're not on the roof and benefit from down draft.    My attic is huge, so I tried to figure out how to put one up there, but eventually gave up.   If they leak, which they do from time to time in normal maintenance, it's a mess if it doesn't have a roof to leak onto.