Considering M20M Bravo - Need advice

[amillet]

I’m 6’3” 210.  Longest day was 12.5 hours (3 legs) coming home from Oshkosh. I was glad to finally land but wasn’t too uncomfortable 

[NickG]

I thank everyone for their input (keep it coming)… I’ve now got a couple real world WB and performance profiles. So it looks like it will work for me - yes, there will be some compromises, but all GA planes come with those.

I had a Cherokee 235 which I sold last year. It was too slow, not comfortable and here in the desert SW, the high DA’s  were problematic over the summer. My wife suggested we get a bigger plane (yes, she’s a keeper) so we started looking at Saratoga Turbos. I had a couple in prebuy, neither one panned out. So we started looking at other possibilities and she fell in love with Mooneys along the way….. She like Bonanzas as well but I’m not crazy about the yoke system and they’re quite pricey compared to a Toga or Mooney.

[Pinecone]

FYI, with Mooneys, if you are within gross weight, and within the baggage compartment limit, you are pretty much in CG.  Hard to load one out of the aft limit. 

I just played with the numbers in mine, and I could fly with a 140 pilot, no right seater, two 150 pounders in the back, 120 baggage, 10 hat shelf, 40 gallons of fuel and was right at the aft limit.  Fuel is forward, so I could carry more and be in front of the aft limit for the entire flight.

[Fritz1]

Happy wife, happy life, in case you want to fly a Bravo and nothing local pans out Jimmy Garrison in TX may be the guy to call, he has a couple for sale and also personally owns a Bravo, very knowledgeable and well connected, probably sold half the Bravos in the US in the last 10 years including mine, needless to say watch out, talking to him you may just be suckered into joining the magic carpet club

[Pinecone]

I would also talk to Richard Simile of Thunderbird Aircraft sales.

Between Richard and Jimmy, they handle a LOT of Mooneys

 

[Danb]

7 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

I would also talk to Richard Simile of Thunderbird Aircraft sales.

Between Richard and Jimmy, they handle a LOT of Mooneys

 

Agree Jimmy sold my Bravo and I purchased my Acclaim through Richard. Both great and knowledgeable 

[NickG]

Right! Calls to Jimmy Garrison and Thunderbird on the list! Went to walk the dogs at KHND today and seems like my wife only has eyes for Mooneys.

[Schllc]

8 hours ago, Pinecone said:

I would also talk to Richard Simile of Thunderbird Aircraft sales.

Between Richard and Jimmy, they handle a LOT of Mooneys

 

I’d stick with richard for a long body for sure. He travels, sees the plane, is very engaged and communicates much much better than any other I’ve dealt with. 

[NickG]

I'd really like to thank Robert for letting me check out his gorgeous Acclaim at St George! Had a chance to sit in it and see how well it fit and while the cockpit is certainly snug, not uncomfortable at all and the amount of usable space in the cabin is quite surprising. Also, the wife loved it! So now I've decided that a M20M Bravo will be my plane! Let the looking begin (or continue..)....

[Fix]

Instead of creating new thread, I hope it's OK to ask it here.

You Long Body Mooney owners, how do you handle MLW (Maximum Landing Weight) restrictions?
MTOW is when I do some quick calculations not a problem for my situation, but the MLW would be a issue to consider not being over 3200lbs when landing.

It's very easy if you have an TKS Mooney with ~900lbs of Usefuel load to have 100lbs over MLW.
How do you do if you need to land "over weight"

In the manual it says it's OK to do a smooth landing, but how hard is to hard?

 

[Fly Boomer]

7 minutes ago, Fix said:

Instead of creating new thread, I hope it's OK to ask it here.

You Long Body Mooney owners, how do you handle MLW (Maximum Landing Weight) restrictions?
MTOW is when I do some quick calculations not a problem for my situation, but the MLW would be a issue to consider not being over 3200lbs when landing.

It's very easy if you have an TKS Mooney with ~900lbs of Usefuel load to have 100lbs over MLW.
How do you do if you need to land "over weight"

In the manual it says it's OK to do a smooth landing, but how hard is to hard?

 

I didn't go back to read this whole thread, but I have a max landing weight that turns out to be exactly 20 gallons less than MTOW.  So, on the rare occasion that I take off at MTOW, it doesn't take long to get rid of 20 gallons.

[Will.iam]

46 minutes ago, Fix said:

Instead of creating new thread, I hope it's OK to ask it here.

You Long Body Mooney owners, how do you handle MLW (Maximum Landing Weight) restrictions?
MTOW is when I do some quick calculations not a problem for my situation, but the MLW would be a issue to consider not being over 3200lbs when landing.

It's very easy if you have an TKS Mooney with ~900lbs of Usefuel load to have 100lbs over MLW.
How do you do if you need to land "over weight"

In the manual it says it's OK to do a smooth landing, but how hard is to hard?

 

Landing smooth at max landing weight is easier than landing smooth light weight. Just be super picky about a very stable approach and if at all unstable go around. If you have to go around more than twice, good news you now have burned off enough gas to be under max landing weight especially if you leave the gear and flaps out the whole time you go-around for another approach. 

[Schllc]

2 hours ago, Fix said:

Instead of creating new thread, I hope it's OK to ask it here.

You Long Body Mooney owners, how do you handle MLW (Maximum Landing Weight) restrictions?
MTOW is when I do some quick calculations not a problem for my situation, but the MLW would be a issue to consider not being over 3200lbs when landing.

It's very easy if you have an TKS Mooney with ~900lbs of Usefuel load to have 100lbs over MLW.
How do you do if you need to land "over weight"

In the manual it says it's OK to do a smooth landing, but how hard is to hard?

 

All I can say is this is a complete non issue all the way around. 
you’ll know hard bc you will bounce! And while it is certainly possible to damage the plane in landing, it’s inertia not simply gross weight. 

[Fix]

20 hours ago, Schllc said:

All I can say is this is a complete non issue all the way around. 
you’ll know hard bc you will bounce! And while it is certainly possible to damage the plane in landing, it’s inertia not simply gross weight. 

So landing overweight ain't generally a problem as long you don't land to hard?
And what is a too hard landing?
Is a too hard landing in a Bravo/Ovation a too hard landing in a J or K for example.
Or the long bodies are more sensitive/fragile ?

[Hank]

1 hour ago, Fix said:

So landing overweight ain't generally a problem as long you don't land to hard?
And what is a too hard landing?
Is a too hard landing in a Bravo/Ovation a too hard landing in a J or K for example.
Or the long bodies are more sensitive/fragile ?

I've only.bounced my C a couple of times, did a go around and landed better on the next try. Well under max gross, 3-1/2 flight hours after departure. 

But I'm 800 lbs lighter than a long bodybat gross, shorter tail moment arm and much lighter engine. Maybe it's enough to make a difference. 

[Schllc]

3 hours ago, Fix said:

So landing overweight ain't generally a problem as long you don't land to hard?
And what is a too hard landing?
Is a too hard landing in a Bravo/Ovation a too hard landing in a J or K for example.
Or the long bodies are more sensitive/fragile ?

Same landing gear and same wing, more weight, I have never owned a mid or short body, so I’ll let the others opine. 
But like I said, it’s inertia, not the static gross weight.  
I don’t think it’s possible to answer your question “what is too hard”, in the way you are asking, if you stall too high you can do just as much damage when light. 
I guess damaging the plane is too hard, but it’s not difficult to land gently over weight.   
Like someone else already said, a smooth landing at max weight is probably easier than super light. 

[Will.iam]

There is a drop test that a certified aircraft has to pass, i think it’s 6ft?(maybe it was 3ft?)  drop at max landing weight that they have to pass. My point is i have had a gust that went away or airpocket right in the flare before that i just fell out of ground effect onto the runway. It could not been more than a ft or so but it definitely would pop a coffee mug off  and on to the floor. I try to imagine a hot cup of coffee on the glare shield. A smooth landing is no coffee spilled over the rim, a rough but ok landing a little coffee spilled and a hard landing by my standards is if the coffee mug falls off the glare shield and lands in my lap.  

[MikeOH]

18 hours ago, Will.iam said:

There is a drop test that a certified aircraft has to pass, i think it’s 6ft?(maybe it was 3ft?)  drop at max landing weight that they have to pass. My point is i have had a gust that went away or airpocket right in the flare before that i just fell out of ground effect onto the runway. It could not been more than a ft or so but it definitely would pop a coffee mug off  and on to the floor. I try to imagine a hot cup of coffee on the glare shield. A smooth landing is no coffee spilled over the rim, a rough but ok landing a little coffee spilled and a hard landing by my standards is if the coffee mug falls off the glare shield and lands in my lap.  

And, my policy is to finish my coffee before landing

[LANCECASPER]

22 hours ago, Will.iam said:

There is a drop test that a certified aircraft has to pass, i think it’s 6ft?(maybe it was 3ft?)  drop at max landing weight that they have to pass. My point is i have had a gust that went away or airpocket right in the flare before that i just fell out of ground effect onto the runway. It could not been more than a ft or so but it definitely would pop a coffee mug off  and on to the floor. I try to imagine a hot cup of coffee on the glare shield. A smooth landing is no coffee spilled over the rim, a rough but ok landing a little coffee spilled and a hard landing by my standards is if the coffee mug falls off the glare shield and lands in my lap.  

I follow that same logic, but I got a spill proof mug so that all of my landings are “smooth” 

[Fix]

Lucky me, I don't drink Coffee...

 

[Will.iam]

19 hours ago, Fix said:

Lucky me, I don't drink Coffee...

 

That might explain your hard landings ha ha