Avblend or Camguard?

[jetdriven]

It won't harm your engine, but there is no evidence it works.  "soaks into metal" is a total lie.  And the ony other data they offer is in 1978, American flyers mechanic "sez" they have an 80% reduction in vlave sticking.  Ask your mechanic for some hard data?

Running your engine 100 ROP or more,  it fouls the engine and guides with lead causes valve sticking.  Run the enigne right, eliminate that.

Anyways, Marvel Mystery Oil does the same thing at 5$ a quart.  It cleans up the varnish and carbon, and lubes the valve stems.

Camguard has plenty of test data that shows it delays the onset of corrosion.

Quote: 201er

Does anyone at all have anything good to say about AvBlend? My mechanic has just been sticking it in without asking me. Later when I asked him about it he said it was pretty much the same thing as Camguard but better. Is there any good reason to keep using it? I see the arguments for Camguard, just want to check one last time if there is any reason not to switch.

[PTK]

So let me make sure I understand this correctly! Yes you can use Camguard... No you can't in turbos..yes you can!? Avblend is bs mineral oil... it soaks into metal...no it doesn't...it keeps exhaust valves clean and helps with cold starts...no it doesn't!!??

Make up your minds! I don't care either way because I don't contaminate my oil with additives. But To someone looking for some light on the subject, you guys are confusing!!

 

[jetdriven]

Pete:

Avblend's claims are unsubstantiated, and they had to settle a 1 million lawsuit for deceptive claims for their ZMax product, which they freely admit is the same substance.  

MMO can do this for 5$ a quart. MMO cleans carbon out and cleans ring belts.  Our engine went from 6 hours per quart to ~10, and the filter is clean too.  Oh, and a 28% lower takeoff roll, 15% lower fuel consumption,  added 12 knots, and runs 17% cooler.  My frau claims it runs smoother too, and climbs 27% better.   

  bunk of course.

Quote: allsmiles

So let me make sure I understand this correctly! Yes you can use Camguard... No you can't in turbos..yes you can!? Avblend is bs mineral oil... it soaks into metal...no it doesn't...it keeps exhaust valves clean and helps with cold starts...no it doesn't!!??

You guys are confusing!! Make up your minds!

 

[PTK]

Byron, you made reference to my caption "some things are best left to professionals." Also you cite the Amsoil article: 

http://worldsbestoil.com/amsoil/synthetic/articles/additives.htm

In this article the author states in no uncertain terms, "...stay away from additives you don't need them!" 

"How can it be that some fly by night additive manufacturer can have a miracle, cure-all additive without knowing the chemistry of the oil it will be used in? The answer is, they don't."

Yet you talk up Camguard as the best thing since sliced bread and down talk Avblend. They are both additives or contaminants to your oil!! Both of them! One is not less of a contaminant than the other!

You see how you are confusing the issue!? If I didn't know better I'd think you are talking out of both sides of your mouth!

(Sorry about the fonts)

[201er]

Now I'm really confused. More than coming into all this. Can someone explain exactly what Camguard does that Avblend doesn't? Is there some advantage (even if different or minor) that Avblend offers over Camguard? Also, anyone know good deals on Camguard?

[jetdriven]

Mike, Avblend does nothing.  There is no proof it does anything.  It is  a light mineral oil and a dye. 

Camguard helps delay the onset of corrosion in infrequently flown aircraft.   Aviation Consumer wrote it up in an article, and ABS magazine did one also.  Camguard has a humidity cabinet test on their website.  Mike Busch also ran it in one engine as a test on his 310. In a Lycoming engine, given the camshaft issue, this is a huge deal.

[Shadrach]

Quote: allsmiles

Byron, you made reference to my caption "some things are best left to professionals." Also you cite the Amsoil article: 

http://worldsbestoil.com/amsoil/synthetic/articles/additives.htm

In this article the author states in no uncertain terms, "...stay away from additives you don't need them!" 

"How can it be that some fly by night additive manufacturer can have a miracle, cure-all additive without knowing the chemistry of the oil it will be used in? The answer is, they don't."

Yet you talk up Camguard as the best thing since sliced bread and down talk Avblend. They are both additives or contaminants to your oil!! Both of them! One is not less of a contaminant than the other!

You see how you are confusing the issue!? If I didn't know better I'd think you are talking out of both sides of your mouth!

(Sorry about the fonts)

[Sabremech]

Yup, I think I got it now!

Thanks but no thanks! I can't see contaminating a perfectly good oil with ANYBODY'S additive! 

[PTK]

Yup, I think I got it now!

Thanks but no thanks! I can't see contaminating a perfectly formulated oil with ANYBODY'S additive! 

 

(sorry Sabremech, that was my post! These bugs are at it again!)

[PTK]

Quote: jetdriven

Mike, Avblend does nothing.  There is no proof it does anything.  It is  a light mineral oil and a dye. 

Camguard helps delay the onset of corrosion in infrequently flown aircraft.   Aviation Consumer wrote it up in an article, and ABS magazine did one also.  Camguard has a humidity cabinet test on their website.  Mike Busch also ran it in one engine as a test on his 310. In a Lycoming engine, given the camshaft issue, this is a huge deal.

[jetdriven]

Additives like Camguard increase the cost of making the oil.  Ed Kollin developed Exxon Elite for Exxon, but they did not want to use the additive package he specified. They instead copied the same TCP additive that Aeroshell did.  So he sold it on his own.    There must be some reason the Camguard engine on Busch's 310 shows 1/3rd as much iron in the oil analysis after sitting through the annual.

[PTK]

Quote: jetdriven

Additives like Camguard increase the cost of making the oil.  Ed Kollin developed Exxon Elite for Exxon, but they did not want to use the additive package he specified. They instead copied the same TCP additive that Aeroshell did.  So he sold it on his own.    There must be some reason the Camguard engine on Busch's 310 shows 1/3rd as much iron in the oil analysis after sitting through the annual.

[Shadrach]

Quote: allsmiles

Yup, I think I got it now!

Thanks but no thanks! I can't see contaminating a perfectly formulated oil with ANYBODY'S additive! 

 

(sorry Sabremech, that was my post! These bugs are at it again!)

[PTK]

I don't think my thinking is flawed at all. But if you think it is then your thinking is even more so! I choose the safe route and don't botch up the formula with contaminants! You do!

And if you want to talk about being ignorant, what's ignorant is trying to convince someone to use one additive over another! Instead of giving, as I'm trying to do, unbiased opinion and steering them in making their own decision.

[Shadrach]

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything other than the fact that AvBlend is snake oil. I've stated very clearly that I don't use any additives in my engine. Based on discussions with ED (developer of both Exxon Elite and Camgaurd) and tests conducted in moisture cabinets by AvConsumer, I do think that Camgaurd offers additional protection in many oils.

What you fail to understand is that all oils are comprised of a base stock and an additives package. The additive packages are different for each brand and label. While you may believe that no compromise occurs with the various manufacturers, the evidence does not bear that out. Additives themselves either have a proven effect or they don't. Just because it's an additive does not make it bad. As was said, all of the MFGs use and additives package. Your assumption that there are no compromises is naive... All businesses compromise in their dealings with market forces.

 

[danb35]

Quote: allsmiles

And if you want to talk about being ignorant, what's ignorant is trying to convince someone to use one addiive over another! Instead of giving unbiased opinion and steering them in making their own decision.

[scottfromiowa]

Quote: allsmiles

I don't think my thinking is flawed at all. But if you think it is then your thinking is even more so! I choose the safe route and don't botch up the formula with contaminants! You do!

And if you want to talk about being ignorant, what's ignorant is trying to convince someone to use one additive over another! Instead of giving, as I'm trying to do, unbiased opinion and steering them in making their own decision.

[PTK]

Yes Dan you are correct. Don't mess with it! As I said be it Camguard or Avblend, they can formulate an oil the way they envision it with their own additive package. But don't mess with someone else's! 

[scottfromiowa]

Quote: allsmiles

The reason is he flies, flies, flies his airplane and does frequent oil changes!

But let me ask you this. Why don't you use straight Camguard? Or better yet why doesn't camguard or Avblend for that matter, develop and bring to market their own aviation piston oil? Assuming it competes on par and favorably with Aeroshell I'd be the first to pour it in my engine! But don't try to sell me a bottle of goop at 4x what a quart of real oil costs, tell me to pour it into my engine and tell me to make sure I fly, fly, fly!! Where is this playing!

[fantom]

My boat captain buddy uses Camguard in his plane which he flies about 20 hours a year and based on scoping it's clean and rust free.

Take the advise of flying experts and unbiased Aviation Consumer extensive testing....not some overly opionated but ignorant blow hard

[KSMooniac]

Frequently wrong, but never in doubt!

[danb35]

Quote: KSMooniac

Frequently wrong, but never in doubt!

[201er]

Where's the cheapest place to get camguard? How often do you need to add it? Just complete oil changes or when adding oil as well? Should I wait till my next oil change before adding it the first time?

[jetdriven]

I usually get it from Aircraft Spruce.  Follow the directions, add 5% of oil volume at fill, and 5% of makeup oil.  That is important.  It has to be present to work. If your oil change is coming due in <2 months of flying, I'd wait.   Up to you.

http://aslcamguard.com/faq/

[Jeff_S]

Not to add fuel to the fire, but what they heck, WHY NOT?!  My only purpose with this post is to help sort out what I think is some misinformation printed above, specifically about what Aviation Consumer had to say about AvBlend vs. CamGuard. In fact, they didn't come out totally in favor of either one, but said they both could be useful.  Citing the magazine's conclusion (April '011, page 13):

"Based on lab tests, field tests, and owner comments, we've come to a split decision. When premature top overhauls or valve issues are the concern, we'd try AvBlend. If your engine isn't flying regularly, then corrosion is your arch enemy. For corrosion and corrosion-induced wear, our preference would be CamGuard."

The article also lists much more evidence from both field trials and lab analyses that suggest that AvBlend does have a positive effect. I won't bother to repeat it all here, but for someone really interested in what they have to say, I suggest going to the source.

As I stated, I use AvBlend based initially on the recommendation of Jerry Manthey, but the Aviation Consumer article helped bolster my decision as I do try to keep my engine active to prevent corrosion. If I get to a point where I can't fly as much, I would consider switching to CamGuard.