Let the games begin - MAJOR Avionics Upgrade.

[Pinecone]

I dropped off my plane at the avionics shop last week for a major upgrade.  The shop is close enough for me to visit on a regular basis, so I will update this thread with pictures and progress reports.

Below is a pic of the current panel.  I have:

Aspen 1000 Pro (not max) with AoA and Synthetic Vision

Garmin G-5

Garmin GTN-650Xi with FS-510

Garmin GTX-345

King KMA-24 Audio Panel

King KAP-1150 Auto Pilot with KAS-287B altitude preselect

JPI-830

King KX nav/com (can't remember which one)

 

Planned setup

Garmin G3X Touch 10" with EIS

Garmin G-5 backup (from above)

GTN-750Xi (FS-510 moved from 650 to 750)

GTN-650Xi (from above)

GTX-345R (remote)

PS Engineering 450B Audio Panel

Garmin GFC-500 Autopilot with trim and yaw damper

AirGizmos AERA 760 dock for right side

Alpha Eagle AOA indicator

Replacing rocker switches with toggle switches

Whelen Light Pulser

Original project start was Jan 8, but will be slightly delayed due to a plane ahead of mine having some parts issues.  Projected to take 8 - 10 weeks.

Also having a nearby shop redo the interior while it is out of the airplane for this work.   Picture below of current interior and also the materials for the interior work.  In the materials picture, the bottom sample is the carpet, the middle is the seat fabric, and the top is the leather for the side panels and sides and backs of the seats.  I am going with cloth seats as they are cooler in the summer and warmer in the winter.  The plastic parts will be repaired and painted, not covered in ultraleather.  Yokes will be leather wrapped.

Should be an interesting journey.

 

[donkaye, MCFI]

That should be a nice setup.  I have a few recommendations from my experience; 1. Mount the 760 on the yoke.  I use mine so much that it would be a real pain to have to constantly reach over to get the information I want "right now".  It's also easily moveable.  2. Add the LHS system.  It is reasonably inexpensive and ever so useful.  3.  I know it's a matter of taste, but having the outstanding graphical interface with the GTN 750 Xi makes the GMA 35c my choice for the audio panel notwithstanding the great reviews of the PMA 450B.

[LANCECASPER]

55 minutes ago, donkaye said:

 1. Mount the 760 on the yoke.  I use mine so much that it would be a real pain to have to constantly reach over to get the information I want "right now".  It's also easily moveable.  

I really like my 760 on the yoke also. (On a previous airplane I had an Aera 660 on the right side and didn't use it as much. When I moved it to the center stack I used it much more frequently. I find I use the 760 even more frequently since it's on the yoke. It is much more substantial than an iPad. I keep my iPhone as a backup.)

I haven't done this yet on the G1000 but I would like to hard wire the power for the 760 and interface it to receive flight plans. I can turn off that feature if I want to do some "what-if" scenarios.  

[RoundTwo]

I installed the Aera 760 on a fixed MyGoFlight swivel mount in front of the passenger. It is hardwired to the GTN (MapMX) format so it receives all of the curved tracks for showing holds and turns of the flight plan. It’s also hardwired to the GTX for all the ADS-B goodies. I used its Bluetooth connection to the G3x for AHRS information so the synthetic vision makes a good enough PFD panel for a right seat pilot. There are of course some differences in the displayed data, but it’s good enough for someone to follow the magenta line without having to look across the cockpit.

[Pinecone]

I will have an iPad Mini on the yoke running both FF and GP depending.  I have the AERA 760 attached to the right with velcro, and it is usable.

I have the LHS already.    I bought it when they had the free upgrade to the C version.

I just prefer the 450B features.   

Thanks for the inputs.

[Echo]

What a beautiful panel (now) and wow for future.  I really like my ipad mini on the yoke.  I have an aera 7 series that will go on co-pilot side of panel (as back-up and for use by my co-pilot wife).  I would absolutely NOT want that big pig on my yoke in front of me.  Can not wait to see your completed dream panel.  I hope install goes smoothly.

[toto]

22 hours ago, RoundTwo said:

I installed the Aera 760 on a fixed MyGoFlight swivel mount in front of the passenger. It is hardwired to the GTN (MapMX) format so it receives all of the curved tracks for showing holds and turns of the flight plan. It’s also hardwired to the GTX for all the ADS-B goodies. I used its Bluetooth connection to the G3x for AHRS information so the synthetic vision makes a good enough PFD panel for a right seat pilot. There are of course some differences in the displayed data, but it’s good enough for someone to follow the magenta line without having to look across the cockpit.

The only downside to the 760 for a copilot panel is that it won’t do EIS. If the 760 would display EIS, it would be my hands-down preference over an iPad. But since GP on the iPad shows EIS and the 760 doesn’t, there’s an unfortunate functionality gap that will cause me to keep carrying an iPad.  In all other respects, I prefer the dedicated aviation unit to a consumer tablet. 

[Marc_B]

I have both Aera 760 (pilot yoke mounted and hardwired following @donkaye) and an iPad.  Both have their place.  You can't beat the functionality of flight research, filing flight plans, wx briefs and all the easy flight planning that an iPad EFB gives you.  But in the cockpit, I like the functionality and integration of the Aera for quick navigation between terrain, wx, traffic, charts, etc.  Once you learn it, it's really quick and effortless.  I can also control things like XM volume and muting from my Aera that I can't do from my iPad.  But like Don, I use the Aera routinely with each flight and personally would rather have it on the pilot yoke.  Now if I needed to divert and was trying to quickly pull up a plethora of diversion options, charts, weather, and do in flight "flight planning" I'd pull out my iPad.

I've routinely had my iPad overheat...haven't had that in my Aera.  I also think that the Aera is sometimes easier to see in glaring light; but fixed position anywhere is sometimes challenging regardless of the screen with the "right light."

I'm also in the remote audio panel camp (GMA35) and have really appreciated Telligence and push to command button on my yoke.

So I guess the general gist is that you get used to whatever you use and develop a preference for your way of doing things. Fortunately with modern glass panels there's always about 8 ways you can do the same thing.  So just find out what works.  And don't be surprised when you fly with someone who has similar equipment and you learn a new way of doing something.  The plus is that sometimes their way is even better than my way!  Always fun to fly XC with a pilot and play with buttons and talk shop on the way.

Regardless, @Pinecone you'll have a great panel that is HUGELY capable for a great GA traveling machine!  And maroon...at one time it was probably luxurious like crushed red velvet!  Like pulling out the family pictures as a kid and thinking what the heck were we thinking?!?

[donkaye, MCFI]

Without extensive use I don't think many appreciate (with the exception of Marc who actually took my advice with his upgrade) the value of the flight dedicated Aera 760 on the yoke.  The notion that it's a "big pig" on the yoke is far from the truth.  It's a big improvement over the sizes of the 696 and 796, and even those were a blessing on the yoke.  While I use the iPad as a backup to my backup, I just don't trust it.  You never know when it's going to fail due to overheating.  I don't want to be depending on it on approach and have it go blank at an inopportune time.  I've never had that be an issue with any of the Garmin handhelds, and I've owned them all except the 196.

[Z W]

Looks like that will all be quite the upgrade.  Good luck and I hope it goes smooth.

I'm curious - why would you need an Aera 760 with a panel like this?  I found after the install of a G500Txi and GNC355, there's no need to touch anything outside the panel.  If I had a GTN 750 and 650 as well, it seems like there would be even less need for a portable.  Just for a better total redundancy option if you lose the entire panel and all of the battery backups on your certified instruments run out? 

At this point I open Garmin Pilot on my phone, but don't use it for anything other than its automatic logbook entry feature on a normal flight.  Sometimes to study a chart if I don't want to put it up on the big screen in the panel for whatever reason.

I won't mount anything on the yoke.  These beautiful planes fly with perfect balance and precision as Al Mooney designed them until you bolt several ounces (or a couple pounds) of plastic cantilevered out into the cabin.  Not for me, thanks.

[toto]

5 minutes ago, Z W said:

I won't mount anything on the yoke.

I’m also an anti-yoker by personal preference, but I do think it’s nice to have a 760 or an iPad for the copilot side, as either option is far cheaper than a full G500 or G3X install for the front seat pax. 

Running GP on the iPad is the only option I’m aware of for viewing Garmin EIS if the LCD dies. 

[donkaye, MCFI]

22 minutes ago, Z W said:

I won't mount anything on the yoke.  These beautiful planes fly with perfect balance and precision as Al Mooney designed them until you bolt several ounces (or a couple pounds) of plastic cantilevered out into the cabin.  Not for me, thanks.

Have you ever done it?  There's absolutely not difference in balance that I have been able to notice in my 32 years and 10,650 hours of Mooney time.  I'd say more, but it's just not worth the effort any more.  Clearly, my experience is getting through to no one.  As with other valuable contributors, I'm close to leaving Mooneyspace...

[amillet]

2 hours ago, donkaye said:

Have you ever done it?  There's absolutely not difference in balance that I have been able to notice in my 32 years and 10,650 hours of Mooney time.  I'd say more, but it's just not worth the effort any more.  Clearly, my experience is getting through to no one.  As with other valuable contributors, I'm close to leaving Mooneyspace...

Please don’t Don. Your experience and wisdom are greatly appreciated by most of us. 

[Z W]

3 hours ago, donkaye said:

Have you ever done it?  There's absolutely not difference in balance that I have been able to notice in my 32 years and 10,650 hours of Mooney time.  I'd say more, but it's just not worth the effort any more.  Clearly, my experience is getting through to no one.  As with other valuable contributors, I'm close to leaving Mooneyspace...

Yes.  I've had a Garmin 496 on the yoke, and after that an iPad.  I can tell the difference and the plane feels more stable without them, to me.

I value your and everyone else's contributions.  No effort required you don't want to give.  I've read many of your posts over the years and gained some value from them.  I do still feel entitled to have my own opinions based on my personal experience.  Hope you're having a good evening.

[Aerodon]

I'm curious to see how you fit all that into the panel. Here's my latest iteration, I've managed to get all the radios into the centre stack, but there is not enough space for an Air Gizmo mount in the second stack.  I'm playing around with a backplate and cradle to flush mount a 760.

And this is a second 760 for my co-pilot, I prefer the yolk mount 760.

Aerodon

 

 

 

 

[Pinecone]

Thanks for the kind words and comments.

FYI, GFC-500 controller will be left of the stack, just above the throttle.

AERA 760 on the right for backup and info for right seater.  I fly a lot with someone who is a pilot in the right seat.  A 7" G3X would have also worked, but it would be repeating info from the main screen, the AERA is stand alone.

Don, I am listening to you.  I will try the AERA on the yoke, but have gotten used to my iPad Mini running Fore Flight on the yoke.    I have had the AERA velcroed on the right and it seems perfectly usable there

[donkaye, MCFI]

I can see, if you use the Garmin mount, how there could be an imbalance.  I use a RAM mount that mounts underneath the control column, not on top and away from the yoke (creating a possible 760 CG issue), as the Garmin mount does.  I went with the RAM mount because the Garmin mount had no flexibility and was unstable (vibrated).    I've attached a picture showing how the 760 adaptor allows the 760 to be in the center of the yoke and up against the yoke creating no imbalance with yoke movement, since  you're turning around the CG of the yoke.

[Marc_B]

@donkaye can you show a side pic of how you have the Aera mounted? Mine is mounted with the Garmin mount and it’s off center and barely tight enough for clamping. That being said I haven’t had any ill effects with flying, AP or balance issues even how it is. Definitely not a “nice tucked and high quality mount” that I would have liked! Maybe I need to picked up a RAM mount and switch it!!

[donkaye, MCFI]

19 minutes ago, Marc_B said:

@donkaye can you show a side pic of how you have the Aera mounted? Mine is mounted with the Garmin mount and it’s off center and barely tight enough for clamping. That being said I haven’t had any ill effects with flying, AP or balance issues even how it is. Definitely not a “nice tucked and high quality mount” that I would have liked! Maybe I need to picked up a RAM mount and switch it!!

Here are a couple of pictures:

[donkaye, MCFI]

Here's a better picture of the 796 mount in the plane, but the mount is the same except for the 760 adaptor.

[Marc_B]

Interesting. The one at Sporty's has a diamond mount for the Aera mount attachment and has a little different claw.

[donkaye, MCFI]

10 hours ago, Marc_B said:

Interesting. The one at Sporty's has a diamond mount for the Aera mount attachment and has a little different claw.

That won't work well.  It will place the 760 too low and give you less flexibility.  You need the attachment like I have for best placement.

[Pinecone]

9 hours ago, donkaye said:

I can see, if you use the Garmin mount, how there could be an imbalance.  I use a RAM mount that mounts underneath the control column, not on top and away from the yoke (creating a possible 760 CG issue), as the Garmin mount does.  I went with the RAM mount because the Garmin mount had no flexibility and was unstable (vibrated).    I've attached a picture showing how the 760 adaptor allows the 760 to be in the center of the yoke and up against the yoke creating no imbalance with yoke movement, since  you're turning around the CG of the yoke.

Thanks for that picture.  My plan is, to put the GFC-507 about where your PFD/MFD controller is.  So should be plenty of room for 450B, 750 and 650 in the stack.

I use a RAM mount for my iPad Mini.  It is slightly offset to the right, but I don't notice any offset weight from hit.  The 760 is a good bit heavier, so may need to be centered.

Have you used FF on an iPad?  What is the difference in functionality?  One advantage of the iPad is, you can run Garmin Pilot and have your EIS display.  I am going with Garmin EIS and not JPI.

[Schllc]

Make sure you tell them to uninstall (as opposed to ripping them out like they don’t care what they damage) all your old avionics and retain all the clips, plugs, racks, mounts, sensors and everything reasonable so you can sell what’s left over. And remove them from the avionics shop immediately!

I didn’t think to specifically say this and I got a box of garbage with a lot of my old stuff damaged and missing almost everything they came with. 

[donkaye, MCFI]

3 hours ago, Pinecone said:

Thanks for that picture.  My plan is, to put the GFC-507 about where your PFD/MFD controller is.  So should be plenty of room for 450B, 750 and 650 in the stack.

I use a RAM mount for my iPad Mini.  It is slightly offset to the right, but I don't notice any offset weight from hit.  The 760 is a good bit heavier, so may need to be centered.

Have you used FF on an iPad?  What is the difference in functionality?  One advantage of the iPad is, you can run Garmin Pilot and have your EIS display.  I am going with Garmin EIS and not JPI.

As a flight instructor, FF gives you ⅓ off, so I do have it in addition to Garmin Pilot.  It does some things that GP won't, like give you 3D pictures of any airport and a 3D view of your planned flight.  Having said that, its interface is quite a bit different that GP, enough so that Brian Schiff has devoted many hours online to describe how it works.  I started the series, but just didn't have the time to see it all the way through.   Since most of my avionics are Garmin, I have used GP primarily since it came out.  Before Garmin screwed it up again, when it worked, database concierge made it easy to upload databases.  A couple of months ago Garmin changed something and it hasn't worked right since.  Many on BT confirmed the same thing.

When I did my upgrade, EIS wasn't available.  Having said  that, I wouldn't want it.  It takes up too much screen real estate and with the exception of iPad compatibility doesn't have some of the functionality that I have and want with the MVP-50.  I have found the 60/40 PFD/MFD screen sizes with the ability to reverse them to be especially useful on the TXi.  Enroute, I change to 40/60 for bigger map functionality.  This is especially useful on the flight plan page where several more columns become available.

At least for me, after 10 years of use, and with several replacement upgrades like the G500 TXi from the G500, I wouldn't change a thing on my upgrade.  "What if" flight plan diversion scenarios can and have been done extremely rapidly with a switch to disconnect the 760 from the 750 so I can examine weather alternatives without altering the current flight plan.  If I wanted to, I could then push the new diversion plan back to the 750.