Gear unsafe light

[LANCECASPER]

7 minutes ago, MikeOH said:

Surely, there is SGOTI that knows an 'expert' near Kerrville that could travel to his hangar?  Anyone, ..Bueller????

His name is Kerrville but he lives in Houston

[MikeOH]

9 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

His name is Kerrville but he lives in Houston

LOL!  I meant near where he lives, wherever that might be.  I actually had no idea where he lives!

So, surely there must be a Mooney expert in Houston that can help him?

[Fly Boomer]

On 12/14/2023 at 3:07 PM, Kerrville said:

 Do I need two jacks or do they make jack stands?  Do all the alpha jacks work?  I don’t want to order some only to find they won’t fit under the Mooney. Thanks. 

This is what the Mooney jack points look like.  This isn't factory, but it's very close.  You screw the tie-down rings out and hold these in place (they slip into the threaded hoist point because they are slightly smaller than the threaded shank of the tie-down rings) while bringing the jack up to meet the jack point.

 

[Fly Boomer]

On 12/14/2023 at 4:08 PM, Kerrville said:

Perfect. If my friend’s don’t fit I’m going to get those tomorrow. I also need to get the preload tool and the mm calls for shim stock, can I just use a feeler gauge?

The Mooney is so close to the ground that jacks that work okay for most other low-wing airplanes are too long to get under our wing.

[1980Mooney]

2 hours ago, MikeOH said:

LOL!  I meant near where he lives, wherever that might be.  I actually had no idea where he lives!

So, surely there must be a Mooney expert in Houston that can help him?

He said he is at KCXO (Conroe) in the northern part of  the Greater Houston area which is over 10,000 sq mi - bigger than Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New Jersey, Connecticut....  I know one good Mooney shop in the south west part of Houston about 50 miles from him.  There are some at Pearland even farther south. 

No A&P is going to waste time driving across Houston when his shop is full and stacked up with upcoming work.  Maybe there is someone up where he is that claims to know what they are doing.

Edited December 16, 2023 by 1980Mooney

[MikeOH]

17 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said:

He said he is at KCXO (Conroe) in the northern part of  the Greater Houston area which is over 10,000 sq mi - bigger than Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New Jersey, Connecticut....  I know one good Mooney shop in the south west part of Houston about 50 miles from him.  There are some at Pearland even farther south. 

No A&P is going to waste time driving across Houston when his shop is full and stacked up with upcoming work.  Maybe there is someone up where he is that claims to know what they are doing.

Again, no help to the OP.

Let me phrase it a different way:  If it was YOUR plane, in his location and situation (not an A&P, nor a Mooney expert) what would you be doing to solve this?

[DonMuncy]

It is my understanding that it is possible to clamp the gear some way so the plane could be ferried (gear down) to somewhere a good Mooney guru could check it. Doesn't someone know how this is done?

[MikeOH]

1 minute ago, DonMuncy said:

It is my understanding that it is possible to clamp the gear some way so the plane could be ferried (gear down) to somewhere a good Mooney guru could check it. Doesn't someone know how this is done?

Thank you!  Finally, some actual useful information to OP!

That sounds like a really good idea.

[1980Mooney]

9 hours ago, Kerrville said:

That’s kind of what I thought. Need a full rerig. Found a mexhanic who might be able to do it, but they have no Mooney experience. Right now that’s the best I can do…

 

6 hours ago, Kerrville said:

Mechanic pretty much straight up told me that he doesn’t want the liability of rerigging Mooney gear…

 

5 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

Thank him for that. You want someone that is not learning on your airplane.

Not surprising.  The number of A&P's with Mooney experience is shrinking and their isn't great incentive for new ones to learn.

I used a shop on the southwest side of Houston for about 15 years starting in 2005.  They were pretty good with Mooney's.  However, early on in 2010 they saw the rising domination of Cirrus and became a certified Cirrus repair center.  When my long previously scheduled Annual in 2020 rolled around, they delayed me multiple times until I was out of Annual.  Then they told me that they could not do it at all and that I need to find someone else - "They had too much Cirrus work under contract (prepaid and Warranty maintenance)".  Remember that the Mooney Factory had shut down (again) shortly before - they made a business decision - their future was with Cirrus.

So I found another shop nearby in Houston.  What a friggin disaster - ANNUAL FROM HELL.  My Annual went of for months.  Rather than find all issues in parallel they did it in a serial fashion.  The supply chain was screwed up but they would misplace things causing delays. They did work that was not required - one day I went over and they were removing everything from my hatrack including the insulation.  I told them it was not needed in the Annual and I would not pay shop rate for it.  I spoke to another mechanic who laughingly referred to the shop that was doing my Annual as a "Cessna Shop".  We had a dispute on the bill and they would not sign off the Annual without discrepancies (which they were not competent enough to address).  I wound up flying my Mooney with a Ferry Permit to another airport to a different shop.

Edited December 16, 2023 by 1980Mooney

[1980Mooney]

3 minutes ago, MikeOH said:

Thank you!  Finally, some actual useful information to OP!

That sounds like a really good idea.

If Clarence hadn't been run off we would probably would have gotten the answer the first day.....

[MikeOH]

Just now, 1980Mooney said:

If Clarence hadn't been run off we would probably would have gotten the answer the first day.....

Yeah, I'm sure he's the ONLY person in existence that knows the answer.  We're all doomed...

Oh, wait, DonMuncy had a pretty damn practical ideal...there's hope for us after all

[1980Mooney]

4 minutes ago, MikeOH said:

Yeah, I'm sure he's the ONLY person in existence that knows the answer.  We're all doomed...

Oh, wait, DonMuncy had a pretty damn practical ideal...there's hope for us after all

Yes - he said "Doesn't someone know how this is done?".  Apparently not.

 Oh wait - the OP will need a "knowledgeable Mooney mechanic" to clamp the gear so there is no chance that it will fold up. I doubt the rookie mechanic that he found (the one that doesn't want the liability of learning Mooney landing gear) will be of any use.  And @LANCECASPER gave the example of the collapse in a Mooney shop caused by nose gear going first in the hands of a knowledgeable Mooney mechanic - Flying with the gear down puts a continuous force on the nose gear that will cause it to fold up if something is amiss or lets go.

The OP will likely need to inform his Insurance Company that the gear is malfunctioning and that he plans to fly with the gear down.  They may object - they may want a Ferry Permit which involves a knowledgeable Mooney A&P....

 

[EricJ]

+1 that I think this is probably being made to be a bigger deal than it probably is.    If the floor indicator is indicating locked, then it should be locked just like the gear was put down manually.   It'll be prudent to check things, like the preloads, once it's all on jacks and ready to be swung, but otherwise I don't know why it wouldn't be locked if the floor indicator is indicating it's locked.

It'd probably be possible to consult with Maxwells or others who might be able to take it and just fly it there with the gear down.    Whether it needs additional hardware or fixtures for further safety could be determined by them before flying it there.

[PT20J]

I'm certainly not in a position to advise anyone, but I can tell you what I would do in this situation if it were me. There are four independent Mooney Service Centers in Texas plus the factory service center. I would call them and find one that is willing to check the gear rigging. I'd also get their opinion on what is necessary to ferry the airplane. From what I've read here, I suspect that just pulling all three gear breakers and flying it to a shop with the gear down would be fine. 

Skip

[Justin Schmidt]

3 hours ago, 1980Mooney said:

 

 

Not surprising.  The number of A&P's with Mooney experience is shrinking and their isn't great incentive for new ones to learn.

I used a shop on the southwest side of Houston for about 15 years starting in 2005.  They were pretty good with Mooney's.  However, early on in 2010 they saw the rising domination of Cirrus and became a certified Cirrus repair center.  When my long previously scheduled Annual in 2020 rolled around, they delayed me multiple times until I was out of Annual.  Then they told me that they could not do it at all and that I need to find someone else - "They had too much Cirrus work under contract (prepaid and Warranty maintenance)".  Remember that the Mooney Factory had shut down (again) shortly before - they made a business decision - their future was with Cirrus.

So I found another shop nearby in Houston.  What a friggin disaster - ANNUAL FROM HELL.  My Annual went of for months.  Rather than find all issues in parallel they did it in a serial fashion.  The supply chain was screwed up but they would misplace things causing delays. They did work that was not required - one day I went over and they were removing everything from my hatrack including the insulation.  I told them it was not needed in the Annual and I would not pay shop rate for it.  I spoke to another mechanic who laughingly referred to the shop that was doing my Annual as a "Cessna Shop".  We had a dispute on the bill and they would not sign off the Annual without discrepancies (which they were not competent enough to address).  I wound up flying my Mooney with a Ferry Permit to another airport to a different shop.

Probably, the same shop west houston that worked on my plane (previous owner) and pencil whipped an annual when I bought it

[Kerrville]

15 hours ago, MikeOH said:

Wow!  This saga just won't conclude...

The summary:

1) The SGOTI are saying don't touch, let alone move the plane

2) The SGOTI are saying take it to an expert

Since 2 kinda contradicts 1, what do the SGOTI suggest @Kerrville do at this point because, apparently, the Mooney gear is so complex that competent experts are few and far between?

Surely, there is SGOTI that knows an 'expert' near Kerrville that could travel to his hangar?  Anyone, ..Bueller????

Damned if I do, damned if I don’t. If I could pin the gear I would do that and fly gear down to get fixed…. The Maxwells shop is only about an hour flight north and kerville a few hours west…. I know an older ia who knows what he is doing but can’t get under the plane who might be willing to babysit me…

[hammdo]

Don’t forget SWTA @84R (Smithville). JD et.al. are great… another option besides Dugosh, Maxwells, and Factory. Many places to contact for help/suggestions…

-Don

[Kerrville]

I now have found that the retraction tube is bent. Any good place to source parts?  It is 560244-501 in the parts manual. 

[EricJ]

Junkyards/recyclers or the factory.

 

[KSMooniac]

Call BAS in Greeley CO. Those go fast to repair gear-up planes, though. You can straighten it and weld a doubler over it per AC 43.13 too if you have a good A&P.

Sent from my motorola edge plus 2023 using Tapatalk

[1980Mooney]

On 12/21/2023 at 4:22 PM, Kerrville said:

I now have found that the retraction tube is bent. Any good place to source parts?  It is 560244-501 in the parts manual. 

Only one of the 2 MLG tubes is bent?  Everything is linked together. If it bent (buckled) because the Dukes actuator over- extended (due to lack of microswitch stop) then everything was overextended. Every tube should be checked for straightness. And turnbuckles for any 
 

On the other hand perhaps the one tube had some residual damage from the original gear up and it was the first to bend. 
 

check out this post

 

[1980Mooney]

On 12/21/2023 at 4:22 PM, Kerrville said:

I now have found that the retraction tube is bent. Any good place to source parts?  It is 560244-501 in the parts manual. 

 

[Kerrville]

I need to pull everything apart now. Can’t find parts. Another airplane for the scrap heap?  

[1980Mooney]

33 minutes ago, Kerrville said:

I need to pull everything apart now. Can’t find parts. Another airplane for the scrap heap?  

once you get it up on jacks here is a video for reference 

 

 

[1980Mooney]

On 12/21/2023 at 5:11 PM, KSMooniac said:

Call BAS in Greeley CO. Those go fast to repair gear-up planes, though. You can straighten it and weld a doubler over it per AC 43.13 too if you have a good A&P.

Sent from my motorola edge plus 2023 using Tapatalk
 

A clean “oh crap I completely forgot “ gear up generally does not tear up the rods, turnbuckles or actuator. It is the remembering and dropping the gear(partially extended)just as you touchdown, the porpoising nose gear collapse, the side skid collapse, and the improper gear rigging/weld crack collapse that tears up and bends everything in the landing gear system.