(Not a Mooney) First U. S. Sling TSi crash 09/25/2023 in California

[LANCECASPER]

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-09-25/plane-crash-san-pedro-soccer-field-2-seriously-injured

 

I believe that this Sling TSi has more time than any other TSi. It is the first USA registered TSi.

http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=m ... c88a3625f0

https://www.airplanefactory.com/aircraf ... la-to-lal/

I had to land at DeFuniak Springs, FL for weather on the way back from Sun N Fun in 2019 and the Sling guys landed there as well in this airplane (N135WT). This one has been in all of the brochures and at all of the airshows. I would be curious to hear how many hours were on the Rotax. Also since there was no fire at the scene and the airplane was completely destroyed wondering if fuel starvation was the issue.

[LANCECASPER]

59 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said:

This news story has a video showing the Sling stalling and rolling over onto the right wing as it goes down.  It appears to be an engine out for some reason.

https://abc7.com/plane-crash-san-pedro-soccer-field-of-dreams/13828208/

Also, although hard to see, there does not appear to be S-bending of the 3 blade prop in the pic in this LA Times story.  You can just barely see one blade sticking straight up.

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-09-25/plane-crash-san-pedro-soccer-field-2-seriously-injured

That looks like a desperate way-too-tight turn, leading to a stall,  to try to put it down in a field surrounded by neighborhoods and businesses. Not many options in that area. I hope they both make it.

The local ABC  interview mentions fuel on the field so probably not fuel starvation.

[DCarlton]

16 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

That looks like a desperate way-too-tight turn, leading to a stall,  to try to put it down in a field surrounded by neighborhoods and businesses. Not many options in that area. I hope they both make it.

The local ABC  interview mentions fuel on the field so probably not fuel starvation.

It's gotta be really tough to resist the urge to pull up when you're low to the ground and don't have a landing area in the glide path.  I've always wondered if there's any amount of training that can overcome that.  

[Mooney in Oz]

7 hours ago, DCarlton said:

It's gotta be really tough to resist the urge to pull up when you're low to the ground and don't have a landing area in the glide path.  I've always wondered if there's any amount of training that can overcome that.  

It is tough, but in my view the best chance to survive is to maintain best glide speed and gradually reduce to fly into the crash site. It may or may not be survivable, but risking an inadvertent stall spin is not an option.

I have found practicing the impossible turn to be good training in overcoming the urge to pull up as the first response is to forcefully push the yoke forward to reach the all important glide speed. 

[DCarlton]

2 hours ago, Mooney in Oz said:

It is tough, but in my view the best chance to survive is to maintain best glide speed and gradually reduce to fly into the crash site. It may or may not be survivable, but risking an inadvertent stall spin is not an option.

I have found practicing the impossible turn to be good training in overcoming the urge to pull up as the first response is to forcefully push the yoke forward to reach the all important glide speed. 

I’ve always been hesitant to practice with realism the impossible turn in the Mooney but it’s been discussed many times.  

[Mooney in Oz]

2 hours ago, DCarlton said:

I’ve always been hesitant to practice with realism the impossible turn in the Mooney but it’s been discussed many times.  

Before I learnt this, I too was hesitant, so I understand where you are coming from. As you know, the Mooney is a wonderful glider with excellent handling characteristics and you will surprise yourself how quickly you’ll adapt.

At first, don’t try it on your own. Find a competent Mooney instructor who will take you through the sequences or attend a Mooney proficiency course as it should be part of the syllabus. If it isn’t, request an instructor to take you through the steps anyway.

Provided I am on my own, the wind is favourable and traffic permitting, I try to practice it at least once a month after landing at a destination. It will get you into the habit of immediately pushing the yoke down to attain glide speed following an engine out, no matter the scenario or where you are.

[neilpilot]

22 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

Also since there was no fire at the scene and the airplane was completely destroyed wondering if fuel starvation was the issue.

Maybe you meant to say fuel exhaustion.  In 2012 I totaled my M20E due to fuel starvation, after landing in soybeans due to a fuel injection system failure.  I had nearly full tanks. 

[LANCECASPER]

14 minutes ago, neilpilot said:

Maybe you meant to say fuel exhaustion.  In 2012 I totaled my M20E due to fuel starvation, after landing in soybeans due to a fuel injection system failure.  I had nearly full tanks. 

Actually it turns out with the local ABC affiliate video that there was fuel spilled on the soccer field. So even though I meant to say fuel exhaustion, it could have been fuel starvation.

[A64Pilot]

The Lady that flew one of those from Australia I believe to I think Oshkosh gave our local EAA chapter a talk and had her airplane there, flight of two I think if memory serves.

She kept going on and on about how she wanted a “Modern” engine and thought the Rotax to be that. She was very experienced, coming out of I believe a Turbo C-210 and may have been a Professional pilot..

I just remember being shocked at anyone thinking a Rotax to be superior to a big Continental, that’s not at all my opinion.

[Niko182]

30 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

I just remember being shocked at anyone thinking a Rotax to be superior to a big Continental, that’s not at all my opinion

The Rotax is significantly more modern than the Continental. Not superior in my opinion, but way more modern.

[A64Pilot]

This is her, apparently she has the first high wing, by modern she meant superior. She complained how she was tired of the constant problems of the Continental, wanted something more reliable.

I believe of all aircraft engines the Rotax has the highest failure rate, by failure I mean quits and forces you down as in can no longer fly.

 

[gevertex]

On 9/26/2023 at 11:26 PM, DCarlton said:

I’ve always been hesitant to practice with realism the impossible turn in the Mooney but it’s been discussed many times.  

In gliders it's been a regular part of my BFR. One CFI made me do it at 200'. I also practiced it in a 172 with a CFI at an empty field. You can make the turn at 500', but you can't make the field unless the runway is long enough. With a 3200' runway we were about 1000' short of the field lined up with the runway. In the Mooney with a longer runway, I don't think it'd be a problem. I am at 500' while still over the runway at my home airport (7000' runway). Agree the key is to get to glide speed and don't rush the turn. It's a pretty good push to get from Vx at full throttle to best glide at idle.

[Yetti]

On 10/10/2023 at 9:58 PM, gevertex said:

. Agree the key is to get to glide speed and don't rush the turn. It's a pretty good push to get from Vx at full throttle to best glide at idle.

The last line.   configure for take off up high and have an instructor pull the throttle.   You want the push over to be immediate and with authority and not thinking about it.   Then you figure out your options.   Had this taught to me on Flight Review and then used it when the engine stumbled at Midland.   I asked the passenger who was also a pilot with me when I pushed over.  He said it was immediate.  I don't remember doing it.