For those mechanics and others that ignore manuals and still pull the tail down cause it’s always worked before

[ragedracer1977]

7 hours ago, KB4 said:

Reasons why members have left.  Some just feel the need to personally attack and criticize without any substance to their posts.  Please reread the post.  This isn’t for you!  It’s for those that follow or want to follow the MM. not for those that know more than the manufacturer.  
 

Didn’t always agree with him, but he shared his insights here and many including me, valued his Mooney knowledge.  Who? Try searching gsxrpilot.  He’s gone now. Why?
 

 Only reason I’m sticking around is for Clarence not you or anyone else who chases the good talent away from MS. 

Says the guy calling everybody schmucks???

[ilovecornfields]

2 hours ago, rbp said:

some of these comments are ironic given the sarcastic and arrogant reception I got when I asked about blocking people in another thread. perhaps if it was possible to block repeat offenders, people wouldn’t up and go.

I think the moderator can boot people off the site but we seem to do ok with self moderation most of the time. Any time you interact with a large group of people you’re going to run into a range of personalities.

Hopefully you didn’t take my Bobby Brown comment as arrogant and sarcastic. I’ve blocked a few people and I’m sure some have blocked me. System seems to work pretty well. Not perfect but then when you start blocking a bunch of people it can turn into POA where a small group of people control the conversation and the “moderators” liberally hand out violations and threaten to ban those whose opinions differ from their own which has a pretty chilling effect on speech.

[ragedracer1977]

2 hours ago, ilovecornfields said:

I think the moderator can boot people off the site but we seem to do ok with self moderation most of the time. Any time you interact with a large group of people you’re going to run into a range of personalities.

Hopefully you didn’t take my Bobby Brown comment as arrogant and sarcastic. I’ve blocked a few people and I’m sure some have blocked me. System seems to work pretty well. Not perfect but then when you start blocking a bunch of people it can turn into POA where a small group of people control the conversation and the “moderators” liberally hand out violations and threaten to ban those whose opinions differ from their own which has a pretty chilling effect on speech.

Short of flat out personal attacks or attacks on family, blatant trolling, etc - we’re all adults.  We’re not going to agree on lots of things.  I much prefer to let us self moderate.  I’ve never blocked anyone, anywhere.  My skin is too thick

[Schllc]

2 hours ago, ilovecornfields said:

I think the moderator can boot people off the site but we seem to do ok with self moderation most of the time. Any time you interact with a large group of people you’re going to run into a range of personalities.

Hopefully you didn’t take my Bobby Brown comment as arrogant and sarcastic. I’ve blocked a few people and I’m sure some have blocked me. System seems to work pretty well. Not perfect but then when you start blocking a bunch of people it can turn into POA where a small group of people control the conversation and the “moderators” liberally hand out violations and threaten to ban those whose opinions differ from their own which has a pretty chilling effect on speech.

I agree with this, I’ve blocked a few, who seemed to be posting purely for the agitation effect, but even the majority of ones that may annoy me from time to time I leave visible. Mostly because I’m far from perfect either…
I had lots disagree with things I say, and I’ve disagreed with more than a few as well. 
If something really gets under my skin I either write what I feel and delete, or I just blow it off.  I try really hard not to stir the pot. 
As far as I can tell, nearly everyone here has good intentions, even if the “way I read what they wrote” doesn’t impact me that way in the moment. I prefer to assume they are all good guys. 
I have enough unsolicited friction in my daily life with people, I certainly don’t want to add to that on a forum where I come simply to learn and hopefully share what little I know with people that share my interest in mooney’s. 

[Hank]

On 4/16/2023 at 7:50 PM, ilovecornfields said:

Hopefully you didn’t take my Bobby Brown comment as arrogant and sarcastic. I’ve blocked a few people and I’m sure some have blocked me. System seems to work pretty well. Not perfect but then when you start blocking a bunch of people it can turn into POA where a small group of people control the conversation and the “moderators” liberally hand out violations and threaten to ban those whose opinions differ from their own which has a pretty chilling effect on speech.

Yep, they chilled my speech right out of their forum! But I did sign out first, so they'd know I left. Haven't been back for several years . . . .

Here, though, I just know to avoid certain threads after a while, like the whole Little Timmy debacle. I bowed out around page 7 or 8, it went 50+ before being locked.

With my C, I've used tail tie downs, I've stacked cases of oil on the horizontal stab; no idea how my new IA has done it the last 3 or 4 annuals since my last IA retired, he doesn't do Owner Assisted . . . .  

[rbp]

On 4/16/2023 at 8:50 PM, ilovecornfields said:

when you start blocking a bunch of people it can turn into POA where a small group of people control the conversation and the “moderators” liberally hand out violations and threaten to ban those whose opinions differ from their own which has a pretty chilling effect on speech.

I’m not sure it works pretty well. Two people have up and left, with laments all around. And there are topics which should be shut down (climate, really?). And posts which bash people (usually liberals, but others too). And some pretty stupid shit about people needing to learn to fly tailwheels.  Honestly, this site is about 25% dumpster fire, 25% useful stuff, and 50% random banter. I wouldn’t mind some tools in order to adjust those percentages to have a better. 

[Shadrach]

20 minutes ago, rbp said:

I’m not sure it works pretty well. Two people have up and left, with laments all around. And there are topics which should be shut down (climate, really?). And posts which bash people (usually liberals, but others too). And some pretty stupid shit about people needing to learn to fly tailwheels.  Honestly, this site is about 25% dumpster fire, 25% useful stuff, and 50% random banter. I wouldn’t mind some tools in order to adjust those percentages to have a better. 

Have you spoken to the defectors? Do you know exactly why they left?  Your perspective and assessment of this forum is quite different from mine, but then so is your assessment of what people should and should not be free to discuss. I find sometimes a sabbatical from mooneyspace is the right course of action. One day that sabbatical may be permanent for me. 

 

[DXB]

I truly regret having read the title of this thread and everything that came thereafter. Such Cirrus owner behavior in the Mooney community 

[Shadrach]

On 4/16/2023 at 7:50 PM, ragedracer1977 said:

Says the guy calling everybody schmucks???

To be fair, I am pretty sure that the “schmucks will be schmucks” comment was directed at me.  Looking back on my life, I can think of a number of  instances where that would be a true statement, so I’m not really bothered by it.  How I jack my airplane is low in my personal hierarchy of schmuckery. Nevertheless, watching that video is enough to make this schmuck feel smart.

[ilovecornfields]

3 hours ago, rbp said:

I’m not sure it works pretty well. Two people have up and left, with laments all around. And there are topics which should be shut down (climate, really?). And posts which bash people (usually liberals, but others too). And some pretty stupid shit about people needing to learn to fly tailwheels.  Honestly, this site is about 25% dumpster fire, 25% useful stuff, and 50% random banter. I wouldn’t mind some tools in order to adjust those percentages to have a better. 

Those percentages are still much better than the internet as a whole. When you have such a low threshold to  shut things down that you disagree with (like the POA mafia) then you end up creating an environment where people aren’t free to openly discuss and a small group controls the content of the site. I was on there very briefly but it seemed that whenever someone posted something that was disagreeable to the group in control they would scramble to lock the thread as quickly as possible and silence any dissenting opinion.

I much prefer the open environment here. Even if it does lead to stupid crap like the climate thread with now corrected erroneous statistics that really had no place on this site to begin with. Not surprising that the most liked post there is the one saying it doesn’t belong here. One of those threads every once in a while still seems like a small price to pay for the excellent content and people who generally post here.

And a sabbatical is sometimes therapeutic as well.

[rbp]

For the last 34 years, I have been a participant in one of the most freewheeling groups on the internet (yes, since 1989, on USENET). There are only 2 rules:

1. There are no rules
2. Go ride (it’s a motorcycle group.)

That group works because the community at large, in the absence of any moderator, won’t take any shit. 

here OTOH people say stupid shit every single day, and the community just let’s it slide, and sometimes even encourages it by piling on, participating, and debating. 

if you want to have an unmoderated, freewheeling environment then the community has to have some balls and shut the stupid shit down

[Vance Harral]

Not really my place to speak for him, but since gsxrpilot's name was bandied around here briefly, I thought I should note that I talk to Paul on a regular basis.  He still has his Mooney, still enjoys flying it (along with his taildragger), and doesn't have anything negative to say about Mooneyspace.  He doesn't have anything positive to say about Mooneyspace either - he doesn't talk about it at all.  But I know he didn't leave in a huff, has no bone to pick.  While his specific reasons for not visiting here any more are his own, I'm pretty certain it has little to do with the nature of this community, and much to do with a healthy desire to get off the internet and enjoy real life.  Those of you that think he got "run off" are reading far, far too much into things.

[Bolter]

22 minutes ago, rbp said:

For the last 34 years, I have been a participant in one of the most freewheeling groups on the internet (yes, since 1989, on USENET). There are only 2 rules:

1. There are no rules
2. Go ride (it’s a motorcycle group.)

That group works because the community at large, in the absence of any moderator, won’t take any shit. 

here OTOH people say stupid shit every single day, and the community just let’s it slide, and sometimes even encourages it by piling on, participating, and debating. 

if you want to have an unmoderated, freewheeling environment then the community has to have some balls and shut the stupid shit down

rec.moto?  I got too busy to read it anymore, but loved it back in the 90's.

[rbp]

4 minutes ago, Bolter said:

rec.moto?  I got too busy to read it anymore, but loved it back in the 90's.

Yep! We’re on FB now. DM me and I’ll hook you up 

[Hank]

1 hour ago, Vance Harral said:

Not really my place to speak for him, but since gsxrpilot's name was bandied around here briefly, I thought I should note that I talk to Paul on a regular basis.  He still has his Mooney, still enjoys flying it (along with his taildragger), and doesn't have anything negative to say about Mooneyspace.  He doesn't have anything positive to say about Mooneyspace either - he doesn't talk about it at all.  But I know he didn't leave in a huff, has no bone to pick.  While his specific reasons for not visiting here any more are his own, I'm pretty certain it has little to do with the nature of this community, and much to do with a healthy desire to get off the internet and enjoy real life.  Those of you that think he got "run off" are reading far, far too much into things.

I certainly agree with that! For a while I chased likes and enjoyed winning days, but I was here all the freaking time! I cut it off for a couple of weeks, and now pop in and out when I feel like it, have a question or have dug up an answer for someone else's question. I guess you could say that I relaxed . . . . And it's better now.

[Shadrach]

3 hours ago, Vance Harral said:

 I'm pretty certain it has little to do with the nature of this community, and much to do with a healthy desire to get off the internet and enjoy real life.  

I'm glad Paul is well. This is just what I had suspected. Likely because I too have felt driven to take long breaks from this forum. Usually months but sometimes for years. When you see that you've got in excess of 10,000 posts you contemplate the utility or futility of the activity...

[ilovecornfields]

2 hours ago, rbp said:

if you want to have an unmoderated, freewheeling environment then the community has to have some balls and shut the stupid shit down

Who decides what shit is stupid?

[Shadrach]

On 4/16/2023 at 11:51 AM, KB4 said:

Reasons why members have left.  Some just feel the need to personally attack and criticize without any substance to their posts.  Please reread the post.  This isn’t for you!  It’s for those that follow or want to follow the MM. not for those that know more than the manufacturer.  
 

Didn’t always agree with him, but he shared his insights here and many including me, valued his Mooney knowledge.  Who? Try searching gsxrpilot.  He’s gone now. Why?
 

 Only reason I’m sticking around is for Clarence not you or anyone else who chases the good talent away from MS. 

Have you asked Clarence how he jacks up a Mooney?

[EricJ]

3 hours ago, Bolter said:

rec.moto?  I got too busy to read it anymore, but loved it back in the 90's.

rec.pets.cats was always where it was really at.

And alt.tasteless. 

[rbp]

2 hours ago, ilovecornfields said:

Who decides what shit is stupid?

It’s not a matter of who decides. 

It’s a matter of each person speaking up when they observe behavior they find unacceptable. 

Or would you just let someone shit on the sidewalk in front of your house without saying something?  Or not want your neighbor to say something if they saw it?  

[N201MKTurbo]

But can’t you just insist that your maintainer jack your airplane the way you want and leave everybody else alone?

[Shadrach]

5 hours ago, rbp said:

It’s not a matter of who decides. 

It’s a matter of each person speaking up when they observe behavior they find unacceptable. 

Or would you just let someone shit on the sidewalk in front of your house without saying something?  Or not want your neighbor to say something if they saw it?  

I think @ilovecornfields misspoke. It's not who decides "what shit is stupid" but who decides what is shit (stupid or otherwise). I like the current system where individuals speak their minds and move on. I don't like it when mods step in, here or anywhere else. 

I have had posts deleted here for "reasons" that haven't even the thinnest resemblance to what I actually said. My protest was not even acknowledged. I get the feeling mods often feel like a Mother with an unruly brood...don't care who started it...don't care who's fault it was, just sit down and shut up.   I want no parts of that type of moderation.

[EricJ]

5 hours ago, Shadrach said:

I think @ilovecornfields misspoke. It's not who decides "what shit is stupid" but who decides what is shit (stupid on otherwise). I like the current system where individuals speak their minds and move on.

That'd be great if that's how it worked, but people speak their mind and then not move on.   Topics are breached not to engage in discussion, but to advance an agenda.   If you don't support the agenda, your reasoned input may be determined to be stupid shit, regardless of the history or supporting evidence or science or logic or math or reasonableness.

So who decides what shit is stupid is, I'd argue, a key component.   There is no forum where everyone will agree on that, so unmoderated fora are always subject to unnecessary strife when people can't resist the temptation to not move on.   It is the way.

[Shadrach]

33 minutes ago, EricJ said:

That'd be great if that's how it worked, but people speak their mind and then not move on.   Topics are breached not to engage in discussion, but to advance an agenda.   If you don't support the agenda, you're reasoned input may be determined to be stupid shit, regardless of the history or supporting evidence or science or logic or math or reasonableness.

So who decides what shit is stupid is, I'd argue, a key component.   There is no forum where everyone will agree on that, so unmoderated fora are always subject to unnecessary strife when people can't resist the temptation to not move on.   It is the way.

Interesting take. Do you recall any threads that were closed/deleted for espousing left wing beliefs or individuals banned for the same reason? It’s a genuine question? I don’t, but I could have missed it.

[EricJ]

1 minute ago, Shadrach said:

Interesting take. Do you recall any threads that were closed/deleted for espousing left wing beliefs or individuals banned for the same reason? It’s a genuine question? I don’t, but I could have missed it.

On this forum or anywhere?    There've been threads closed on this forum for political content.   It seemed to me that it wasn't because of any particular point of view, but just because political topics aren't really appropriate for this forum and if such get contentious there's not really any benefit to the intended community and potential risk.   I thought it was an appropriate move.

Threads get closed and people get banned from fora all the time for political views or religious views or social views of all flavors.