Upgrade Aspen or Wait for Full Garmin

[Pinecone]

Currently I have an Aspen 1000 Pro with GTN-650Xi, GTX-345, G-5, King nav/com and KAP-150 autopilot.

I was planning on doing a major upgrade in a year or so to G3X, add a GTN-750Xi and GFC-500 autopilot.

But Aspen has some great deals for another week with trade in.  So it would be relatively cheap to change to an Aspen 2000 Pro Max setup, or even a 2500.

So Aspen upgrade now?  Or wait to do Garmin?

[ArtVandelay]

Is this a forever plane?

[PT20J]

Key thing is the autopilot. If you are comfortable keeping the KAP 150 for a few years, you can put off the Garmin upgrade and enjoy the newest Aspen equipment. If not, or if you really want a more capable autopilot with Smart Glide, altitude preselect, no GPSS to fool with, VNAV and a flight director, then you need the Garmin PFD. I can't see it being very cost effective to do an Aspen upgrade for only a year especially when you factor in the depreciation on the used equipment when you go to sell it next year and the installation cost and down time. One advantage to holding off is that the G3X is getting a bit long in the tooth and Garmin will certainly come out with an updated version at some point. A brighter screen and faster processor (the G3X takes a long time to boot and install databases) would be nice improvements.

Skip

[carusoam]

Aspens are nice…

a full suite of big G is helpful…

Dynon is always an option… but no Mooney AP yet?

 

Go Aspen… Big G needs the competition!

 

Best regards,

-a-

[donkaye, MCFI]

Guess which route I would suggest?

[MIm20c]

If you’re itching to spend money you might consider just installing a 3 servo gfc500 and connecting it to your g5…

[glbtrottr]

Guess which route I would suggest?

Not everyone is a baller and a high roller. Much as I dislike brand G, I can’t arm wrestle with my favorite flight instructor.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Pinecone]

7 hours ago, MIm20c said:

If you’re itching to spend money you might consider just installing a 3 servo gfc500 and connecting it to your g5…

I was thinking that it would be a possibility with the Aspen upgrade.

[Pinecone]

17 hours ago, PT20J said:

Key thing is the autopilot. If you are comfortable keeping the KAP 150 for a few years, you can put off the Garmin upgrade and enjoy the newest Aspen equipment. If not, or if you really want a more capable autopilot with Smart Glide, altitude preselect, no GPSS to fool with, VNAV and a flight director, then you need the Garmin PFD. I can't see it being very cost effective to do an Aspen upgrade for only a year especially when you factor in the depreciation on the used equipment when you go to sell it next year and the installation cost and down time. One advantage to holding off is that the G3X is getting a bit long in the tooth and Garmin will certainly come out with an updated version at some point. A brighter screen and faster processor (the G3X takes a long time to boot and install databases) would be nice improvements.

Skip

My KAP150 is working fine, for now.

And I was thinking the same thing about the G3X, maybe a G3Xi version.    I would hate o put in a G3X and 1 month later, have Garmin announce the new version

 

[Pinecone]

Another option would be a Garmin upgrade, but not quite as all out.

Maybe just the G3X, GFC-500, and a new audio panel.

And NOT add a GTN-750Xi, just run with the single GTN-650Xi I have now.  Maybe change the King Nav-Com out

 

[ArtVandelay]

Another option would be a Garmin upgrade, but not quite as all out.
Maybe just the G3X, GFC-500, and a new audio panel.
And NOT add a GTN-750Xi, just run with the single GTN-650Xi I have now.  Maybe change the King Nav-Com out
 

If you’re going to glass and having to cut new panels, it just makes cents to go all in, and then you’ll have a panel you won’t have to keep patching.
There’s overhead installing avionics (removing interior, access panels).
I’d (and I did) bite the bullet and get it fixed.
That doesn’t mean it has to be all Garmin, just that it’s the final solution, not a stop gap.

[Ragsf15e]

4 hours ago, Pinecone said:

I was thinking that it would be a possibility with the Aspen upgrade.

I definitely wouldn’t do that.  Then your primary autopilot indications and flight director are on your backup adi (g5) and not on your pfd (aspen).  The aspen and the gfc500 have limited or no interaction.

[LANCECASPER]

4 hours ago, Pinecone said:

I was thinking that it would be a possibility with the Aspen upgrade.

Aspen and Garmin now work together with the GFC600  with a new Aspen software unlock *. Unfortunately Garmin didn't certify the GFC-600 for the Mooney.

(Garmin's original plan was to do the GFC600 for Mooney long bodies, but everyone jumped on the GFC500, so they dropped those plans. The GFC600 would have been excellent since the 600 servos are much more robust (GFC500 servos weigh only 1.4 lbs. each), the autopilot is fully TSO'd, has its own built in AHRS and was designed to work with third party displays (https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2017/july/18/garmin-announces-two-new-autopilots).

Garmin was going to use my Bravo with the three Aspen Max displays to certify the GFC600 for the Mooney, but when they dropped those plans I decided eventually it would be more cost effective to sell  my Bravo and replace it rather than starting over and spending $80,000 - $100,000 on my panel.) 

Pick which road you are going down and stay on that road.  If you're going to go Garmin and it will be a few years that will work in your advantage since by then the G3X will most likely be updated. The MAX screens are nicer but absolutely not a game-changer. You are still left with Aspen's biggest limitation with the KAP/KFC autopilots - the EA-100 interface which has a high disconnect rate. People replace the EA100 thinking they are defective but it is a design limitation IMHO.   

 

*  https://www.beechtalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=209246

[PT20J]

13 hours ago, MIm20c said:

If you’re itching to spend money you might consider just installing a 3 servo gfc500 and connecting it to your g5…

Besides what @Ragsf15e pointed out, you’d have to check the STC. Garmin probably requires that the G5 be the primary display and it might have to be located where you want to put the Aspen.

[Pinecone]

1 hour ago, LANCECASPER said:

Pick which road you are going down and stay on that road.  If you're going to go Garmin and it will be a few years that will work in your advantage since by then the G3X will most likely be updated. The MAX screens are nicer but absolutely not a game-changer. You are still left with Aspen's biggest limitation with the KAP/KFC autopilots - the EA-100 interface which has a high disconnect rate. People replace the EA100 thinking they are defective but it is a design limitation IMHO.   

That is one reason to consider waiting.

The only reason to go to MAX is to the PFD and MFD are the same generation.

I have not had issues with my Aspen and KAP-150 disconnecting.  At least so far.

[Pinecone]

2 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

If you’re going to glass and having to cut new panels, it just makes cents to go all in, and then you’ll have a panel you won’t have to keep patching.
There’s overhead installing avionics (removing interior, access panels).
I’d (and I did) bite the bullet and get it fixed.
That doesn’t mean it has to be all Garmin, just that it’s the final solution, not a stop gap.

I have to review, but I think the intermediate step would be complete on the left panel.  Add ons/changes would be in the stack or right panel.

[PT20J]

21 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

I have to review, but I think the intermediate step would be complete on the left panel.  Add ons/changes would be in the stack or right panel.

That sounds good looking at the panel from the pilot's side, but I would discuss this with an installer familiar with Mooneys. The Mooney radio stack is built up on rails and the trays for each unit are riveted to the rails and then the rails are riveted into the structure. It's a whole lot easier to remove everything and build the new radio stack on the bench including the cable harnesses and then install the stack and connect the wiring to the other panel units.

[Pinecone]

Hmmm, that may change things.

The two later additions I was thinking of was a 750Xi with my 650Xi.  Maybe do the 750Xi with the first part.  Do an AERA 760 on the right panel.  And possibly later swap for a G3X 7"

But the 750Xi and install is what pushes the cost up to have to wait to get funds together.

[KSMooniac]

If you go with a 10" G3X, I don't see the need for the big-screen 750.  What is your use case for that over the 650 you already have?  If you can pull the trigger now on G3X & GFC 500, I think that would do nicely with your G5 GTN 650.  Maybe spend the leftover funds on a modern nav/com?

With my steam gauge panel, I am a big fan of the large-screen GPS... my plane came with GNS 530/430 combo and it is nice to have that much screen real estate since I don't have a PFD.  530 has my arc view/map, and 430 has all data fields...plus it is linked to a 496 for 4 more data fields and XM weather.  However, if/when I go to a big PFD, I could see "downgrading" to a newer smaller screen GPS box of some sort, and maybe a simple nav/com for #2.  I'm still undecided...

As I mentioned on my beechtalk reply to this same topic, autopilot is my first decision, and the rest will follow.

[carusoam]

@gevertex’s panel is coming to life…

Inviting him to join this discussion….

Best regards,

-a-

[Pinecone]

16 hours ago, KSMooniac said:

If you go with a 10" G3X, I don't see the need for the big-screen 750.  What is your use case for that over the 650 you already have?  If you can pull the trigger now on G3X & GFC 500, I think that would do nicely with your G5 GTN 650.  Maybe spend the leftover funds on a modern nav/com?

I am getting quote including trading in the 650XI on the 750.  To see how the numbers are.

I like the idea of having the additional large screen to keep a nav page up, with the PFD and approach plate on the G3X.

I did talk to the avionics shop and they are looking at booking for Dec/Jan.  So have time to build additional funds.

[Fly Boomer]

16 hours ago, KSMooniac said:

If you go with a 10" G3X, I don't see the need for the big-screen 750.

 

Agree.  One of the airplanes I took a run at had a G500 and a pair of GNS-430s.  Tiny screens on the 430s, but who cares with the G500 in front of you.

[Pinecone]

I may end up that way.  I want to aim high, and cut back to reality.

Better that doing a lot of work, and then saying, darn, I should have.  And since so much has to be taken apart and put back together, it makes sense to do it once.

 

[PT20J]

FWIW, I put in the G3X 10" and a GTN 650Xi. The 750 takes up so much space that you either have to remote some avionics or have a second radio stack and I wanted to avoid both. I have a yoke mount for an iPad mini running ForeFlight and a MCI True Blue USB charging cube mounted behind the panel with a cable running beneath the yoke and I use it for the approach plates because it has a larger screen than the G3X. I usually fly with the the G3X set  split screen with the map page displayed and the GTN on either the traffic page or the flight plan page.

Skip

[KSMooniac]

I concur with Skip and my next question was going to be if you use an iPad or other portable.  As I've been dreaming about my panel upgrade to be named later, I plan to keep using an iPad Mini for extra screen real estate.  I use the MyGoFlight case and yoke mount and like it.  My frugal-ness (I own a Mooney, after all) likely prevents me from ever paying for a subscription to have plates on a panel-mount system.  Maybe Dynon might get cheap enough if I go that route, but for now, the Mini works well for me.  I grew up using paper NACO plates on my lap or clipped on to the yoke.    

Having a portable battery backup for emergency nav is great redundancy, and especially if there is a fake panel screen to help keep the shiny side up.  Maybe I'm contorting myself to feel better about not wanting to upsize a panel-mount GPS box (+$5,000?) and pay for additional subscriptions beyond the required nav data (+$500-1000/year?).  There will be a better iPad out every year or two for far less money.  You can easily mount a GDL 39 or 52 or similar and use ship power to feed an iPad and decouple it from the panel system.