Top of Wing Fuel Gauges. Need advice.

[PT20J]

As I understand it, generally any custom parts that Mooney buys from a vendor require a minimum purchase quantity and maybe a setup charge. This ties up cash which is in short supply. So Mooney is prioritizing parts necessary to keep the fleet flying.

Skip

[Irmin]

As I understand it, generally any custom parts that Mooney buys from a vendor require a minimum purchase quantity and maybe a setup charge. This ties up cash which is in short supply. So Mooney is prioritizing parts necessary to keep the fleet flying.
Skip

Yes, that’s how it seems to me as well. Pity, really, that those wonderful efficient and fast platforms are so starved down to the minimum.


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[Stubby]

During a preflight the other day, I found the one on my right wing basically just sitting in its place. For as loose as it was (I popped it out with my fingers with minimum effort) I can't believe it was still there. Sealing it back in with RTV was very straight forward as mentioned by a few others here.

[Pinecone]

I have talked to Frank Crawford about this issue.  And mentioned that many of these parts, owners and MSCs would be willing to preorder with a deposit (or for smaller cost, pre-pay in full) to get them.  Even if it is to have spares.

With a moderate mark up, Mooney could get them into the pipeline and even purchase a few extras without tying up their capital.  

He agrees, but it is the bean counters that can't see that path.

[PT20J]

14 hours ago, Pinecone said:

I have talked to Frank Crawford about this issue.  And mentioned that many of these parts, owners and MSCs would be willing to preorder with a deposit (or for smaller cost, pre-pay in full) to get them.  Even if it is to have spares.

With a moderate mark up, Mooney could get them into the pipeline and even purchase a few extras without tying up their capital.  

He agrees, but it is the bean counters that can't see that path.

I had a friend that owned a 1957 Mercedes 300SL. He needed a fuel injection gizmo and none were available. He contacted Bosch and they said they would make them for $10K with a minimum order of five. He got some other owners to go in on it and they got them made. 

I think this might work with Mooney. It's more complicated because Mooney no longer sell parts direct but only through the service centers. But perhaps a MSC that likes selling parts (many don't) like LASAR could work this out. Let's say we got a bunch of us that wanted to buy M20J wing tank gauges. LASAR could get Mooney to quote the minimum order size and the price. We could get everyone to place an order with LASAR and pay up front. LASAR would make its markup for not much work, Mooney would get the cash up front to order the parts.

Skip

 

[1980Mooney]

14 hours ago, Pinecone said:

I have talked to Frank Crawford about this issue.  And mentioned that many of these parts, owners and MSCs would be willing to preorder with a deposit (or for smaller cost, pre-pay in full) to get them.  Even if it is to have spares.

With a moderate mark up, Mooney could get them into the pipeline and even purchase a few extras without tying up their capital.  

He agrees, but it is the bean counters that can't see that path.

 

23 minutes ago, PT20J said:

I had a friend that owned a 1957 Mercedes 300SL. He needed a fuel injection gizmo and none were available. He contacted Bosch and they said they would make them for $10K with a minimum order of five. He got some other owners to go in on it and they got them made. 

I think this might work with Mooney. It's more complicated because Mooney no longer sell parts direct but only through the service centers. But perhaps a MSC that likes selling parts (many don't) like LASAR could work this out. Let's say we got a bunch of us that wanted to buy M20J wing tank gauges. LASAR could get Mooney to quote the minimum order size and the price. We could get everyone to place an order with LASAR and pay up front. LASAR would make its markup for not much work, Mooney would get the cash up front to order the parts.

Skip

What you and @Pinecone suggest makes great business sense, makes sense to owners and makes sense to pilots that fly Mooney's. 

But isn't that exactly what @Pinecone said that he already posed to Mooney (Frank Crawford)?  " owners and MSCs would be willing to preorder with a deposit".  But @pinecone said the "He (Frank Crawford) agrees but it is the bean counters that can't see that path."

Back in 2020 the headlines proclaimed just the opposite - "Pilots, Mooney Owners Take Over Mooney International". But Frank Crawford is saying "Bean Counters" are in charge. 

What gives?  Where and who is this Wyoming-based ownership group, US Financial, LLC that bought 80% of Mooney.  What is the ongoing role of the Mejing Group which apparently kept 20% of the company and most likely kept their investment in the form of debt as a big IOU....maybe that is why the "Bean Counters" are in charge of business decisions.  

[EricJ]

41 minutes ago, PT20J said:

I had a friend that owned a 1957 Mercedes 300SL. He needed a fuel injection gizmo and none were available. He contacted Bosch and they said they would make them for $10K with a minimum order of five. He got some other owners to go in on it and they got them made. 

I think this might work with Mooney. It's more complicated because Mooney no longer sell parts direct but only through the service centers. But perhaps a MSC that likes selling parts (many don't) like LASAR could work this out. Let's say we got a bunch of us that wanted to buy M20J wing tank gauges. LASAR could get Mooney to quote the minimum order size and the price. We could get everyone to place an order with LASAR and pay up front. LASAR would make its markup for not much work, Mooney would get the cash up front to order the parts.

Skip

 

"Group buys" used to be common with specialty or race car groups to get sufficiently large orders to get something made.   In aviation the rules can be used to discourage this, so the factory isn't as motivated to do anything.  The community suffers for it.

[PT20J]

7 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said:

 

What you and @Pinecone suggest makes great business sense, makes sense to owners and makes sense to pilots that fly Mooney's. 

But isn't that exactly what @Pinecone said that he already posed to Mooney (Frank Crawford)?  " owners and MSCs would be willing to preorder with a deposit".  But @pinecone said the "He (Frank Crawford) agrees but it is the bean counters that can't see that path."

Back in 2020 the headlines proclaimed just the opposite - "Pilots, Mooney Owners Take Over Mooney International". But Frank Crawford is saying "Bean Counters" are in charge. 

What gives?  Where and who is this Wyoming-based ownership group, US Financial, LLC that bought 80% of Mooney.  What is the ongoing role of the Mejing Group which apparently kept 20% of the company and most likely kept their investment in the form of debt as a big IOU....maybe that is why the "Bean Counters" are in charge of business decisions.  

Mooney is pretty short staffed and I don't think this would work if Mooney had to do more than get a quote and place an order. To make it work we would have to do the footwork and pay in full up front which means that we take on some risk.

[Jeph357]

Wish I had the j model kit,  I have the complete kit/stc for the 54gal tanks that I can't use because I went with bladders....

[skykrawler]

I replaced both 6 years ago and thought they were stupid expensive for what they are.   The construction is an aluminum stamping with the thin plexi window held in place with the rolled edge of the aluminum.

If one could find the material,  a hangar elf could pry out the dial, carefully cut/remove the window and fit a fabricated window and glue it in place, and RTV the dial back in place. 

There is absolutely no risk of fuel contamination.

 

We are constantly being raped with price gouging - like $1760 for a set of landing shock disks (mains only), $35 oil filters, and $48 for a crappy Champion spark plug.

[Pinecone]

9 hours ago, PT20J said:

I had a friend that owned a 1957 Mercedes 300SL. He needed a fuel injection gizmo and none were available. He contacted Bosch and they said they would make them for $10K with a minimum order of five. He got some other owners to go in on it and they got them made. 

I think this might work with Mooney. It's more complicated because Mooney no longer sell parts direct but only through the service centers. But perhaps a MSC that likes selling parts (many don't) like LASAR could work this out. Let's say we got a bunch of us that wanted to buy M20J wing tank gauges. LASAR could get Mooney to quote the minimum order size and the price. We could get everyone to place an order with LASAR and pay up front. LASAR would make its markup for not much work, Mooney would get the cash up front to order the parts.

Skip

 

No reason Mooney can't do this type of thing directly.

But if not, we just need to find an MSC to set this up and sell it to the Mooney bean counters.

[tmo]

For the majority of the fleet, wouldn't the Vintage Aircraft Replacement and Modification Article (Varma) program help?

https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/faa-program-enables-using-some-off-the-shelf-parts-in-certificated-aircraft/

I think it was discussed here recently as well.

[N201MKTurbo]

40 minutes ago, tmo said:

For the majority of the fleet, wouldn't the Vintage Aircraft Replacement and Modification Article (Varma) program help?

https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/faa-program-enables-using-some-off-the-shelf-parts-in-certificated-aircraft/

I think it was discussed here recently as well.

How would that help? These capsules are made by Rochester to a Mooney specification. They probably won’t make that part for anybody except Mooney. Rochester probably has a minimum order size before they will make them, probably around a thousand pieces. They will not start production until they get a PO from Mooney for the whole lot. Mooney probably doesn’t have that much cash to invest in tank dials right now.

If you are talking about using the boat dials that go from E to F in your plane, I can’t imagine any IA or FAA inspector giving anybody grief about that. They aren’t required for anything.

[N201MKTurbo]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/355045769234?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=21562-222008-2056-1&mkcid=2&itemid=355045769234&targetid=296227501805&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9073855&poi=&campaignid=19868683663&mkgroupid=145907810526&rlsatarget=pla-296227501805&abcId=&merchantid=345822286&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIkdG6itj1gQMVnhCtBh1vyQvwEAQYASABEgI7C_D_BwE
 

just get one of these and carefully cut the ears off and glue it into your plane.

[Pinecone]

Another option would be for Mooney to release the suppliers to sell to MSCs or individuals.

It is not like they are losing money, as they aren't getting the parts made.

[N201MKTurbo]

27 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

Another option would be for Mooney to release the suppliers to sell to MSCs or individuals.

It is not like they are losing money, as they aren't getting the parts made.

How would that help? Rochester doesn’t have any to sell. They are made to order. If an MSC put in a big enough order, I’m sure Mooney would order a bunch.

[kortopates]

These aren't unobtanium as this discussion implies. this morning an Ovation student of mine showed me one he just got from the factory. he did have to wait a few months to get it. But since this isn't even remotely an airworthiness part I am glad Mooney prioritizes the important stuff first. but they do manage to ship them.
I am leaving the price out to avoid reading comments about being raped Call your favorite MSC if you need one.


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[Fly Boomer]

7 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/355045769234?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=21562-222008-2056-1&mkcid=2&itemid=355045769234&targetid=296227501805&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9073855&poi=&campaignid=19868683663&mkgroupid=145907810526&rlsatarget=pla-296227501805&abcId=&merchantid=345822286&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIkdG6itj1gQMVnhCtBh1vyQvwEAQYASABEgI7C_D_BwE
 

just get one of these and carefully cut the ears off and glue it into your plane.

Those say:

"Calibrated to the Industry Standard of 33-240 Ohms"

I thought ours were entirely mechanical?

[N201MKTurbo]

7 minutes ago, Fly Boomer said:

Those say:

"Calibrated to the Industry Standard of 33-240 Ohms"

I thought ours were entirely mechanical?

I think the EBay seller doesn’t know what they are selling.

[Pinecone]

Looks like a cut and paste from another product.

[Steve Dawson]

On 10/14/2023 at 9:58 AM, N201MKTurbo said:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/355045769234?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=21562-222008-2056-1&mkcid=2&itemid=355045769234&targetid=296227501805&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9073855&poi=&campaignid=19868683663&mkgroupid=145907810526&rlsatarget=pla-296227501805&abcId=&merchantid=345822286&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIkdG6itj1gQMVnhCtBh1vyQvwEAQYASABEgI7C_D_BwE
 

just get one of these and carefully cut the ears off and glue it into your plane.

I just received an email from Rochester and they don't have any in stock. 

Rich have you installed this unit in your 231? Other than cutting the tabs off, were there any other modifications needed?

 

[N201MKTurbo]

1 hour ago, Steve Dawson said:

I just received an email from Rochester and they don't have any in stock. 

Rich have you installed this unit in your 231? Other than cutting the tabs off, were there any other modifications needed?

 

I have not installed the boat dials. I just did a web search for compatible dials. It seems that Rochester makes three sized dials. We need the smallest they make.

Why didn't you buy them from the guy on EBay? He has them in stock. Moller seems to have them in stock. They order them from Rochester just like Mooney does.

[0TreeLemur]

Last spring I bought two off the shelf from Maxwell for our J.

[Steve Dawson]

1 hour ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I have not installed the boat dials. I just did a web search for compatible dials. It seems that Rochester makes three sized dials. We need the smallest they make.

Why didn't you buy them from the guy on EBay? He has them in stock. Moller seems to have them in stock. They order them from Rochester just like Mooney does.

They have the same ones on Amazon as eBay but before I buy them I wanted to check to see if they will actually fit and work before I spend any money on them. Not to mention if there's work to do on them other than removing the tabs.  

[N201MKTurbo]

2 hours ago, Steve Dawson said:

They have the same ones on Amazon as eBay but before I buy them I wanted to check to see if they will actually fit and work before I spend any money on them. Not to mention if there's work to do on them other than removing the tabs.  

Got any better ideas? Order them from Mooney and wait.