GNS 430 support

[aerobat95]

Has anyone heard if Garmin is going to no longer support the GNS 430?  What about the GNS 430W??  I heard a rumor from a Cardinal Flyers board this may be the case. 

[sreid]

They're likely to be supported for some time...

http://garmin.blogs.com/my_weblog/2011/11/since-their-introduction-in-1998-the-garmin-gns-series-gpsnavcom-products-have-been-widely-accepted-with-over-100000-of.html

 

[aviatoreb]

Quote: aerobat95

Has anyone heard if Garmin is going to no longer support the GNS 430?  What about the GNS 430W??  I heard a rumor from a Cardinal Flyers board this may be the case. 

[NateZ]

I can't really see that happenening. I was able to send them a GX55 for overhaul a year ago and that thing is ancient! 

[aerobat95]

Ok cool....cause I have been looking at the 430 line both WAAS and Non-WASS and don't want to purchase one if I can't get any service done on them. 

[rbridges]

Quote: aerobat95

Ok cool....cause I have been looking at the 430 line both WAAS and Non-WASS and don't want to purchase one if I can't get any service done on them. 

[KSMooniac]

The problem is not their willingness to support the units, it is the availability of the electronic bits that go into the boxes.  They are not custom Garmin components and are used on many other products that have life spans much, much shorter than aviation things (think computers and cell phones, for example).  I believe that many of these components are already out of production, and Garmin bought up a supply to keep in inventory to support the fleet, but that supply is finite.  

I also believe I read that the non-W boxes will have to be converted to WAAS if they need servicing, but that might be dependent on what the problem is.  If I were shopping for a 430 now I would call Garmin and ask what their current policy is.  I suspect it would be false economy to buy a non-W unit these days.

[jetdriven]

Upgrading the box to WAAS is 3K from Garmin, then another ~1000-1500$ for an upgraded antenna and wiring / installation.

 

http://www.jebriggs.com/blog/2011/05/upgrading-garmin-430-and-530-to-waas/

[John Pleisse]

Aviation consumer wrote a brief article on the subject. In it, they reported Garmin would support WAAS upgrages through the ADS-B mandate, suggesting it was profitable and there was demand.

[danb35]

Quote: jetdriven

Upgrading the box to WAAS is 3K from Garmin, then another ~1000-1500$ for an upgraded antenna and wiring / installation.

[KSMooniac]

Yes, the antenna is included in the upgrade fee to Garmin.  In 2007 I upgraded both of my boxes (under their original $1500 promotion) and my total bill was $3360 for the upgrade and installation labor, including running new coax.  The new antennae fit in the old antenna footprint so it isn't a big deal at all except for pulling the headliner bits to get access to the hardware and coax.

For those that haven't flown with a WAAS box and GPSS, it is a HUGE safety enhancement for single pilot IFR.  Very good bang-for-the-buck.

[John Pleisse]

Quote: KSMooniac

Yes, the antenna is included in the upgrade fee to Garmin.  In 2007 I upgraded both of my boxes (under their original $1500 promotion) and my total bill was $3360 for the upgrade and installation labor, including running new coax.  The new antennae fit in the old antenna footprint so it isn't a big deal at all except for pulling the headliner bits to get access to the hardware and coax.

For those that haven't flown with a WAAS box and GPSS, it is a HUGE safety enhancement for single pilot IFR.  Very good bang-for-the-buck.

[MATTS875]

I wish they had a trade up program for the GTN 650. would have been nice if it were a direct replacement..but that would have been too easy

[aerobat95]

Thanks again for all the input....so for the couple AMU's more pretty much I should go for the 430W?

[jetdriven]

If you are talking about installing a 430W, why bother? It is a bad value proposition and all said and done, you ar in it for the same 12K it would have cost to install a new 430W last year.

[KSMooniac]

Ray, I would get some detailed quotes to get a 430W installed today vs. the newer GTN-whatever and you might find that the spread isn't all that far.  I know before the GTNs were released, it seems (at least anecdotally) that by the time you found a used GNS-430 (with or without WAAS), an indicator, and got it installed that the price was within $1000 or so of buying it new/retail thru a good shop.  Since the 430 is pretty much discontinued now, I'm not sure if the prices have really come down or not, but I wouldn't necessarily exclude the new model from your debate as the shops/dealers typically have some room to work with pricing, even if the bill shows a new Garmin unit at full retail pricing.  (ie you pay full retail price and get it installed for free or very little)

If it were me, the final price delta would have to be greater than say $1500 for me to try to scrounge a used unit and deal with the hassles of getting it installed and fully checked out vs new with a warranty.  If I were choosing today, I think I would opt for the GTN if at all possible, even if it means squeezing the budget somewhere else.  Jimmy Garrison has written some interesting comments from the resale market perspective and makes some good points about installing the new equipment and enjoying it while you own the plane.

My plane came with a 530 and 430 combo, which I've stated many times that I think is overkill, but I upgraded both to WAAS and enjoy the redundancy.  If I were starting from scratch, I would go for the GTN-750 because of the larger screen, and couple it with a 496 or 696 or 796 for weather and extra data fields plus an SL40 nav/com.  I am a huge fan of the larger screen form factor and think it is worth a few thousand more, but that is just me.  

[Cruiser]

Last time I talked with my avionics guy he said he could get brand new GNS430W from Garmin for mid $7000s. His install price is about as good as they get.

I don't know what they can get a new GTNs for, but I will ask if anyone is interested.

[jetdriven]

7k for a 430w and 2k for an indicator. That's 9 grand there but don't forget 15 ft of rg-400 cable at 4$ a ft and an antenna or two. So 9k-9500 plus install.  2 years ago a 430w with indicator was 12k laid in. 

 

What's a GTN go for? Don't forget the avidyne ifd540 in that price range.  

[aerobat95]

Just got a quote for the GTN 650 from a shop in Tulsa.  They said around 14500 installed and that is without an indicator.  He said add 2K for that.  There is currently a used one on Ebay starting bid is 6995 which is probably what is going to sell for.  I can have that installed here for a pretty good price and I would be able to work with the guys putting it in.  Looking at the one on ebay it says it has a 8130 and is remanufactured.  What exactly is the 8130?  Is a remanufactured unit something to say away from?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GNS-430W-Compl-System-Rack-BP-Antenna-connecters-and-pilots-guide-/200710945659?pt=Motors_Aviation_Parts_Gear&vxp=mtr&hash=item2ebb4dfb7b

[Cruiser]

Ray, please check with a local avionics shop. You can get a brand new 430W from Garmin with a warranty for about $500 more.

[John Pleisse]

8130 is a yellow tag to return to service. All of these avionics shops have standard/flat install fees for boxes. Sometimes it is a good bet on an older plane not knowing what kind of rats nest is behind the panel, other times it is best to negotiate down and get the cheapest intall price you can. Also, if I could go back and do it all over again, I'd do the largest single screen you can afford. As opposed to smaller screens and multiple boxes. Remeber, you might want a viable screen for an ADS-B display not far down the road.

Good luck with it Ray.

[mooney2201]

i heard garmin 430's non wass with part nimber -10 at the end were the only units that garmin is going to support....

[DaV8or]

To the OP-

Do yourself and your plane a favor, stretch and get the GTN xxx. The 430, while being the industry standard for over a decade, really is an akward and dated peice of technology. It can be a serious PITA to use at times. I curse at mine frequently. I really wish Apple made avionics at times. I'm also really hoping Avidyne will make a drop replacement for the 430 someday soon.

[triple8s]

What is the alternative to a Garmin 430, 530 or GTN series for LPV app ?  I will have to upgrade soon enough,and I hate the thoughts of being FORCED to buy Garmin. If I buy something I want it to be for its performance not because it is the only game in town.

[KSMooniac]

triple8s, here is the only alternative on the horizon at Byron mentioned:  http://www.avidyne.com/products/ifd540/index.asp

Vaporware right now, but at least that company has "been there and done that" before.  From their FAQ:

"Availability

83.When will the IFD540 be delivered? (Updated 3 January 2012)The IFD540 is currently in development and in flight test so we don’t have a specific delivery date but we are driving to a late 2012 completion date.  "

Their Release 9 product for Cirrus aircraft got pretty favorable reviews from what I read, but it seemed to be a product without a home since Cirrus switched to G1000 and the aftermarket retrofit cost is EXPENSIVE for the R9.  Hopefully this product with the same interface will make it to market and lead to real competition.

John and I are of the same opinion about buying the largest screen you can instead of multiple boxes (like I have now, courtesy of the previous owner).  If/when I go through another panel modernization, I am going to strongly consider this Avidyne box as a replacement for my 530W and then perhaps ditch both Garmins.  It will be interesting to play with one of these units at Sun n Fun or OSH.