FAA is drinking the Kool-Aid

[A64Pilot]

	FAA Safety Team | Safer Skies Through Education
FAAST Blast — Vertiport Design Guidelines, Rotorcraft Performance Planning Video, Flying in Formation Notice Number: NOTC2641   FAAST Blast — Week of Oct 03, 2022 – Oct 09, 2022 Biweekly FAA Safety Briefing News Update    Vertiport Design Guidelines Published Last month the FAA released new design guidelines for vertiports, infrastructure that will support advanced air mobility (AAM) aircraft. The design standards will serve as the initial step to provide key information for airport owners, operators, and infrastructure developers to begin the development of facilities that will support operations of AAM aircraft that are electrically powered and take-off and land vertically. These vertical takeoff and landing (VTOL) operations will transport passengers or cargo at lower altitudes in rural, urban, and suburban areas. The design standards include critical information that designers and builders will need to follow to allow for safe takeoffs and landings. Some of those include safety-critical geometry and design elements; lighting, markings, and visual aids; charging and electric infrastructure; on-airport vertiports; and elevated vertiports. The final design standards are based on research conducted by the FAA, collaboration with industry partners, and feedback from the public. Download FAA Engineering Brief No. 105, Vertiport Design, at bit.ly/3fpJwS0. Rotorcraft Collective Video Highlights Performance Planning We should all understand the performance capabilities and respect the limitations of the aircraft we are flying. Watch this new video from The Rotorcraft Collective for steps to improve helicopter performance planning and power management. “The Rotorcraft Collective” is a group of engineers, pilots, mechanics, accident investigators, and communication specialists from industry and the FAA who produce short safety videos packed with information on topics such as preflight inspections and passenger briefings, helicopter icing, and securing cargo. Check out the entire video series here bit.ly/RotorYT. Flying in Formation If you’ve read the latest issue of FAA Safety Briefing, you’ll know the FAA owns and operates a fleet of aircraft as a certificated 14 CFR part 135 operator. But did you know that through the formation of several strategic partnerships, Flight Program Operations aircraft and crews also contribute to the mission of other federal agencies and the military? The FAA partners with the Department of Defense, the National Science Foundation, NTSB, and FEMA, which means you might see FAA aircraft assisting with rescue operations or even inspecting navigational aids in Antarctica. To learn more about how the FAA partners with other agencies, see the article “Flying in Formation” at https://medium.com/faa/flying-in-formation-ccc82c087c25. Check out the entire Flight Program Operations issue here www.faa.gov/newsroom/faa-safety-briefing-magazine.  Produced by the FAA Safety Briefing editors, www.faa.gov/newsroom/faa-safety-briefing-magazine   Address questions or comments to: SafetyBriefing@faa.gov Follow us on Twitter @FAASafetyBrief or https://twitter.com/FAASafetyBrief   This notice is being sent to you because you selected "General Information" in your preferences on FAASafety.gov. If you wish to adjust your selections, log into https://www.faasafety.gov/Users/pub/preferences.aspx where you can update your preferences.
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[Hank]

Oh boy! Vertiports!!    They must be well lighted for the autonomous, undiluted electric multi-rotor vehicles that so many people will be using . . . .

[MikeOH]

So, how does a "vertiport" differ from a heliport?

[PeteMc]

1 hour ago, MikeOH said:

So, how does a "vertiport" differ from a heliport?

Haven't read the documentation yet, but my guess is that it's similar to LPV vs ILS from a regulatory point of view.

The LPV was created not just because of the new fancy GPS approach capabilities, but because to call an approach an ILS it had to meet all sorts of regulatory minimums that were not written for GPS approaches.  So rather than go through years of dragging the "ILS" specs into the GPS world, they just wrote new specs for a GPS LPV approach.

My guess is that "heliports" have specific requirements.  Rather than try to make new the new VTOL craft conform to the older Helicopter standards, maybe they just wrote a new set of specs to match the new type of craft/technology.

Again...  all of the above is speculation (educated or not) because I've not talked recently to any of the "experts" in the field or read up on the latest info.  Just offering a (gad, I'm going to say it...) logical though on why they're creating "vertiports" vs "heliports" for the new VTOL craft.

 

Edited October 9, 2022 by PeteMc

[Shadrach]

5 hours ago, PeteMc said:

Haven't read the documentation yet, but my guess is that it's similar to LPV vs ILS from a regulatory point of view.

The LPV was created not just because of the new fancy GPS approach capabilities, but because to call an approach an ILS it had to meet all sorts of regulatory minimums that were not written for GPS approaches.  So rather than go through years of dragging the "ILS" specs into the GPS world, they just wrote new specs for a GPS LPV approach.

My guess is that "heliports" have specific requirements.  Rather than try to make new the new VTOL craft conform to the older Helicopter standards, maybe they just wrote a new set of specs to match the new type of craft/technology.

Again...  all of the above is speculation (educated or not) because I've not talked recently to any of the "experts" in the field or read up on the latest info.  Just offering a (gad, I'm going to say it...) logical though on why they're creating "vertiports" vs "heliports" for the new VTOL craft.

 

Which new VTOL aircraft are you speaking of? I’ve seen lots of prototypes over the last decade. I have seen at least none in service. This is not to say there won’t be, but given the “demand” for Vertiports, it seems a bit cart before horse.

[A64Pilot]

On 10/8/2022 at 10:06 PM, MikeOH said:

So, how does a "vertiport" differ from a heliport?

One exists, the other requires a revision to the laws of physics, until or unless those magic batteries I keep reading about come into existence, but even then they will consume huge amounts of power.

This was in my opinion largely political, writing rules and regulations for something that doesn’t even exist.

Remember how there were going to be so many of those little jets it was going to crash the ATC system? Not an insignificant amount of money and time was spent on that nonsense too.

So how long until we are flying around in big self flying electric “drones” as taxis in intercity travel? The power required to hover is enormous, many many times the power to roll a wheeled vehicle around, that alone will kill it in my mind, but for some reason a percentage of the population thinks that electricity just comes out of the wall, there is an endless supply.

[PeteMc]

On 10/9/2022 at 5:06 AM, Shadrach said:

Vertiports, it seems a bit cart before horse.

From a regulatory point of view, if you wait for the VTOL vehicles to be created to then start on deciding what criteria the VTOL ports are going to meet, then even the worst of the government rats are going to be laughing how you screwed the job.

But having said that...  My comment was about the heliports vs VTOL ports, nothing else.

 

[carusoam]

Soooo…..

Are we not going to have the freedom to park in the street in any open space we want to take?

This is going to cramp some style…

Going to Home Depot and McDonald’s… the landing zones are going to be in great demand!

What is the TBO for a handful of electric motors?

Is this affordable to anyone?

Sort of like owning a Bell JetRanger….

Economically self limiting…

Best regards,

-a-

[Shadrach]

55 minutes ago, PeteMc said:

From a regulatory point of view, if you wait for the VTOL vehicles to be created to then start on deciding what criteria the VTOL ports are going to meet, then even the worst of the government rats are going to be laughing how you screwed the job.

But having said that...  My comment was about the heliports vs VTOL ports, nothing else.

 

Interesting.  So then in your scenario, innovation follows regulation?   Sort of a regulatory "Field of Dreams".  If you regulate it they will create...

[Hank]

1 hour ago, A64Pilot said:

The power required to hover is enormous, many many times the power to roll a wheeled vehicle around, that alone will kill it in my mind, but for some reason a percentage of the population thinks that electricity just comes out of the wall, there is an endless supply.

Reminds me of a dairy farmer strike a while back. TV News interviewed shoppers in multiple grocery stores about how it would affect them--many said it would not affect them at all because "I buy my milk at the grocery store." Du-uhh!!!  

[A64Pilot]

Way I see it is at least a small issue with designing “ports” and establishing regulations is as these things don’t exist we can’t possibly know what their performance, noise levels or possible safety requirements are or aren’t.

Be like designing an airport for airplanes having no idea how long the runway has to be for example.

All I know is small drones aren’t quiet, neither are any size of helicopter, can these things be? If they are as loud as I think they will have to be will they be tolerated?

Can you imagine two 400 lb individuals stuffing themselves into a featherlight composite airframe? Before you say that’s not going to happen the 14 yr old “kid” that fell from an Orlando ride weighed 383 lbs.

 

[A64Pilot]

1 hour ago, carusoam said:

Soooo…..

Are we not going to have the freedom to park in the street in any open space we want to take?

This is going to cramp some style…

Going to Home Depot and McDonald’s… the landing zones are going to be in great demand!

What is the TBO for a handful of electric motors?

Is this affordable to anyone?

Sort of like owning a Bell JetRanger….

Economically self limiting…

Best regards,

-a-

I guess the theory is like the Eclipse Jet was, economy of scale, but when I heard a twin Jet was going to cost significantly less than a single turbo prop I laughed and knew it just wouldn’t happen, many have tried, no one has succeeded. Cessna in the 40’s knocked out 8,000 140’s in I think 5 years, stacked them everywhere, everybody who wanted one could have two, they way out built the market.

But even if they can get to being cheap, it’s the energy requirement I think that will kill it, flying is an energy intensive activity, hovering requires enormous amounts of power. Realize for the public to use these things they are going to have to be quiet inside and environmentally controlled as well as comfortable, in other words meet in my opinion automotive levels of comfort and interior durability, and that means heavy and heavy in a helicopter just doesn’t work, unless we get into Millions of $$ and approaching a hundred gallons an hour fuel burn.

I’ve been wrong before, but I just don’t see this happening, this is way more out there than the Eclipse, way more.

Landing zones I guess would be roof tops, can’t see anything else working, the rotor wash would blow anything not secured around, ingesting any kind of trash into the rotor system could be real bad.

I used to laugh watching Chinooks hovering over a Conex and blowing the guy off the top that wasn’t prepared for hurricane force winds.

[PeteMc]

On 10/11/2022 at 12:53 PM, Shadrach said:

So then in your scenario, innovation follows regulation?

Okay... And how did you even remotely get that I'm implying innovation follows regulations?

 

[Pinecone]

On 10/11/2022 at 2:03 PM, A64Pilot said:

Landing zones I guess would be roof tops, can’t see anything else working, the rotor wash would blow anything not secured around, ingesting any kind of trash into the rotor system could be real bad.

I used to laugh watching Chinooks hovering over a Conex and blowing the guy off the top that wasn’t prepared for hurricane force winds.

When the Marines were first looking at the Harrier my Dad (Naval Aviator) thought the idea was hilarious.

The idea was, they could cut a small hole in the jungle, close to the action and shorten the turn time to rearm and refuel.

Problem 1 - How do you get armement and fuel into a hole in the jungle.

Problem 2 - The vertical jetblast.  So the Marines tried to operate on off of PSP (pierced steel planking, for temp runways).  There were sheets of PSP flying EVERYWHERE.

[Shadrach]

12 hours ago, PeteMc said:

Okay... And how did you even remotely get that I'm implying innovation follows regulations?

 

From your post…

“if you wait for the VTOL vehicles to be created to then start on deciding what criteria the VTOL ports are going to meet, then even the worst of the government rats are going to be laughing how you screwed the job.”

[A64Pilot]

On 10/11/2022 at 12:20 PM, carusoam said:

Soooo…..

Are we not going to have the freedom to park in the street in any open space we want to take?

This is going to cramp some style…

Going to Home Depot and McDonald’s… the landing zones are going to be in great demand!

What is the TBO for a handful of electric motors?

Is this affordable to anyone?

Sort of like owning a Bell JetRanger….

Economically self limiting…

Best regards,

-a-

I think the concept for these things is they won’t be privately owned, but autonomous air taxis, and will be cheap enough for the average person to take one as opposed to a taxi, bus or Uber. They will fly programmed routes and only land at programmed locations. Sort of an individual mass transit thing?

Elon Musk has for years the plan of privately owned Tesla’s becoming available to be hailed as self driving taxis to be sort of an automated Uber type of service.

Pure fantasy in my opinion driven by those that think that the green new deal will bring unlimited amounts of essentially free electricity. The Tesla thing, maybe, but flying electric air taxis is I think pure fantasy, it takes way more energy to fly somewhere than it does to drive and that inconvenient fact is just ignored. Energy is expensive and Solar and wind are far more expensive than Fossil, now Nuclear could bring prices way down, but we know public opinion of Nuclear. Nuclear was supposed to make electricity so cheap that they wouldn’t even bother metering it. That of course didn’t happen either.

Back a decade or so ago I had several larger companies like Standard Fruit, we know them as Dole asking if I could Certify our aircraft for Bio-Fuels so they could become carbon neutral, that quickly just went away, was a political fad I guess you would call it. I assume some figured out that burning fuel, is burning fuel.