Low oil pressure and high engine temp after annual inspection..part 2

[willerjim273]

I am back to the experts here about my last post re: low and higher oil temps.(as a note here: according to forum etiquette Is it proper to just add on to the previous post? Or start a new one?)  Going over the timeline here's what I have: 

I picked up the plane 3.6 hours ago after an annual. Good shop nice guy all that. Anybody who knows Greg at BJC knows what I'm talking about.  I have a JPI.  It’s an older one, 700 series, that does not monitor oil pressure.  I have oil temp alarm set for 197 degrees oil  temperature. 

First thing I noticed on the flight home was the oil alarm went off on the JPI.  I've been flying this plane for 3 years and very, very seldom does the oil temperature alarm sound. I realize that 200 to 210 it's not anything to worry about but I rather just sideline that discussion for later.  At the same time I looked down and the oil pressure was right on the line of yellow and green, 30 lbs. . Again my JPI does not monitor oil pressure. I was at 8000 ft. I have taken her no higher than 8000 ft on several flights since then. Same results. Prior To the annual at 16500 ft my oil temperature was just above minimum and oil pressure was about 46.-50. Now it is 30lbs at 8,000 ft. with higher than normal oil temps. Taking her up to 17k to get over the rocks out of Denver does not seem like a great idea. 

First thing that came up as the cause was the oil pressure relief valve system. I called Continental and they ran my engine serial number telling me that I do not have an adjustable system. I can see where it is coming off the block, but I'm not sure I'm comfortable being able to get it back in if I take it apart and clean it..The mechanic says if I bring it into the shop that's what he'll do, unless he see something else that's “obvious”. Of course he'll  “T”  in  and check the gauge first.  

In the last week, I have: 1) changed the oil not knowing what he  used. No difference. 2) Drained the oil again and, pulled the filter and took it to the mechanic. No metal.  

I have a father-in-law that just went into hospice and a wife in Reno. I'd rather not drive. 

Research- hours of it:  Possible culprits seem to be that there is a speck of dirt or something blocking the seat on my fixed pressure relief valve.  Again I have the non adjustable pressure relief valve set up. The cap-plug comes out of the block at an angle if anyone has that setup. 

So I am fixated on that oil pressure relief valve. I am set now to take it back to the mechanic on Monday.  Right now I don't think he fully realizes that this occurred right after the annual (I went on a 3 week out of town trip in the meantime).  

Status right now is she has a new filter and 7 qts of oil and I am ready to take her back to the shop. Looking forward, if it is not the pressure relief system, what then?

 Any thoughts?

[willerjim273]

Opps. Sorry guys. She is a 1980 M20k,  TSIO 360 GB-LB C. 

[A64Pilot]

Pressure relief valve won’t cause high oil temp, yes it will reduce pressure but won’t make it hot. I don’t know anything about your cooler installation, many have a scat hose on them

Hot oil on the other hand will reduce pressure.

Look for a shop rag on the cooler, I’d focus more on the cooling system. kinked hose maybe or something.

Very high blow by can cause high oil temp too, maybe a quick compression test to rule that out, sometimes you have to eliminate possibilities one at a time.

On edit, hot oil and low pressure are the classic signs of bearing failure, usually spun, but that produces huge amounts of metal so it seems you have ruled that out.

[Ethan]

I had a very weird problem with my old engine, a TSIO-360-LB1B, 1981 M20K. One flight, at 15k, I noticed my oil pressure was in the yellow. My heart was instantly in my throat but then I just sat there, flying straight and level, and the engine sounded great. As soon as I started descending my oil pressure went up and gradually reached the bottom of the green. This happened every subsequent flight. To be honest - I never pay much attention to my oil temp - but, regardless of OAT, this pattern would recur, the higher I flew, the lower the oil pressure. We tightened the pressure relief valve and that did not solve the problem. We tried a hard line mechanical oil pressure gauge. It behaved the same way. Finally, thinking my engine was just old, we took it off to replace with a remanufactured engine. When my mechanic examined the engine he found a paper shop towel stuffed up inside the oil screen. I bet that was the problem. Too bad we didn’t look at the oil screen first.

Edited October 1, 2022 by Ethan

[toto]

59 minutes ago, willerjim273 said:

according to forum etiquette Is it proper to just add on to the previous post? Or start a new one?

We resuscitate threads here all the time. Sometimes people start new threads, but those are often met with replies that link to the old thread. No one is going to get too upset either way

My personal opinion is that if you’re adding a new chapter to an existing story, it’s better to update the old thread.

[willerjim273]

So did you install new engine?

[M20F]

Are the cylinders or EGTs operating differently prior to annual?  Do you have a data recording log you can post?

[Guest]

On 10/1/2022 at 1:42 PM, willerjim273 said:

I am back to the experts here about my last post re: low and higher oil temps.(as a note here: according to forum etiquette Is it proper to just add on to the previous post? Or start a new one?)  Going over the timeline here's what I have: 

I picked up the plane 3.6 hours ago after an annual. Good shop nice guy all that. Anybody who knows Greg at BJC knows what I'm talking about.  I have a JPI.  It’s an older one, 700 series, that does not monitor oil pressure.  I have oil temp alarm set for 197 degrees oil  temperature. 

First thing I noticed on the flight home was the oil alarm went off on the JPI.  I've been flying this plane for 3 years and very, very seldom does the oil temperature alarm sound. I realize that 200 to 210 it's not anything to worry about but I rather just sideline that discussion for later.  At the same time I looked down and the oil pressure was right on the line of yellow and green, 30 lbs. . Again my JPI does not monitor oil pressure. I was at 8000 ft. I have taken her no higher than 8000 ft on several flights since then. Same results. Prior To the annual at 16500 ft my oil temperature was just above minimum and oil pressure was about 46.-50. Now it is 30lbs at 8,000 ft. with higher than normal oil temps. Taking her up to 17k to get over the rocks out of Denver does not seem like a great idea. 

First thing that came up as the cause was the oil pressure relief valve system. I called Continental and they ran my engine serial number telling me that I do not have an adjustable system. I can see where it is coming off the block, but I'm not sure I'm comfortable being able to get it back in if I take it apart and clean it..The mechanic says if I bring it into the shop that's what he'll do, unless he see something else that's “obvious”. Of course he'll  “T”  in  and check the gauge first.  

In the last week, I have: 1) changed the oil not knowing what he  used. No difference. 2) Drained the oil again and, pulled the filter and took it to the mechanic. No metal.  

I have a father-in-law that just went into hospice and a wife in Reno. I'd rather not drive. 

Research- hours of it:  Possible culprits seem to be that there is a speck of dirt or something blocking the seat on my fixed pressure relief valve.  Again I have the non adjustable pressure relief valve set up. The cap-plug comes out of the block at an angle if anyone has that setup. 

So I am fixated on that oil pressure relief valve. I am set now to take it back to the mechanic on Monday.  Right now I don't think he fully realizes that this occurred right after the annual (I went on a 3 week out of town trip in the meantime).  

Status right now is she has a new filter and 7 qts of oil and I am ready to take her back to the shop. Looking forward, if it is not the pressure relief system, what then?

 Any thoughts?

Does your oil cooler have the fold down winter plate? If so is it possible that it got lowered into the Winter position?  That would raise your oil temperature.

[jlunseth]

I think the concern should be the somewhat low OP. On occasion, say during a long climb in high-hot conditions, the oil temp in my 360LB will see 200-210, but the lowest pressure I see is 37-38, not 30. I would definitely get concerned at 30. If you are not seeing oil blow out (is the belly greasy?) then I would guess either a malfunction in the pump or a partial blockage somewhere. Did the sump come off during the annual?

[Jim F]

What was done to the engine at the annual?  I would pop the cowl and do a look-see.  Look at the baffle seal to make sure its laying correctly and there is no blockage on top of the oil cooler.  Your oil cooler is in the back of the engine on the pilots side, a rag or birds nest can easily cause the high temp which will cause low pressure. 

[Will.iam]

@T. Peterson Here is a thread with your same issue. Check it out. 

[Guest]

Whether a fixed or adjustable oil pressure relief valve, they all come out the same way.  Cut the safety wire and back off the valve.  Older versions have a brass cap, the spring and plunger reside in the bars cap.  On some of the larger TCM engine small particles occasionally get trapped between the plunger and the seat causing a drop in pressure.

Removing it for cleaning is easy, you need safety wire and a new copper gasket for reassembly.