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LSA's - I don't see the point

GeorgePerry

By GeorgePerry
in Miscellaneous Aviation Talk

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GeorgePerry Veteran

GeorgePerry

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Quote: aerobat95

Very interesting......I love the Mooney but I have thought about in the coming years to build something.  I was looking at the RV's as they are aerobatic.  But, this is definately interesting.  I didn't realize you had started building a kit plane.  I love tinkering....I am lucky that my A&P lets me help out on a lot of the work and love it.

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N601RX Grand Master

N601RX

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Kit planes have come a long way in the last 15 years.  15 to 20 years ago you got a set of plans and some flat pieces of aluminum.  You had to form and custom fit each piece. Jigs had to be built to ensure everything was straight. If you buy a kit today every piece is cnc cut and formed to shape, and almost every hole is already drilled. Just line up the holes and put in rivets and everything will be square and straight.  If you want to pay a little more for a quickbuild kit the wings and fusloge will already be assembled at the factory.  Today proven firewall foward packages can also be purchased as a complete kit ready to bolt on. Prewired avionics are available.  These kits have really came a long way and build time has went down considerably int he last 20 years. As a result of this quality and reliability of the finished product is much better also.

Becca Experienced

Becca

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Quote: GeorgePerry

 Byron I just did the math on this...750 hours at 10 gph = 7500 Gallons of 100LL.  At $5.50 p/gal that's $41,250.  This only leaves $58,750 to purchase the J.  Gunna be a P.O.S. for that kinda money. 

Hank Grand Master

Hank

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Quote: aerobat95

George,

 

I think you have me sold on the Lightning....question for you.  Can you do aero in it?  also what about a constant speed prop? 

jetdriven Grand Master

jetdriven

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George, my math was 68k for a 201, and 32k for gas.  The 750 hours was 8.5 gph LOP (here we go again!) and 5$ a gallon.  

Quote: GeorgePerry

 Byron I just did the math on this...750 hours at 10 gph = 7500 Gallons of 100LL.  At $5.50 p/gal that's $41,250.  This only leaves $58,750 to purchase the J.  Gunna be a P.O.S. for that kinda money. 

Bennett Mentor

Bennett

Posted
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Still another perspective.  I had a great LSA for about 2 years or so. While the Slylark (DOVA DV-1) is not well known in the United States there are about 150 flying in Europe. They are built (under license) in the Czech Republic, Germany, and Poland, and currently the "Type Certificate" is held in Tracy, California. In contrast with many of the LSAs, this one was wind tunnel tested, and designed by a noted professor of aeronautics (in Canada), and I have met with tthe designer, Dr. Marden, and discussed the flying qualities of the airplane. It was a really fun airplane - all metal, incredible visibility, and wonderfully light on the controls. Like so many LSAs she had the Rotax 912 engine. Actually once you got used to the unusual aspects of the engine, she was perfectly reliable, started everytime - instantly, and burned very little fuel.  I averaged about 4.5 gallons per hour at WOT, which is how you fly this airplane.  In Europe, where you can use a variable pitch propeller -generally electric, the airplane easily will fly at 120 knots IAS or better. In the U.S. you can only have a ground adjustable propeller to meet S-LSA rules. Too bad, as I could never get better than about 110 Knots IAS with ether of the two props I tried (3 bladed Kaspar, or a two bladed Sensenich). The cockpit was fully custom with dual Dynon 180s, a TruTrack autopilot, and an AvMap EKP 7" moving map, Plus two Garmin SL30 nav/coms. I also had her stripped and painted (hated the original dull white paint and decals), and custom upholstered.  All in all, a very nice LSA. So why am I flying a Mooney 201 now?  I've owned Mooneys (and other aircraft for more than 25 years), and I really, really like Mooneys.  The LSA eneded up costing about $180,000 with all the custom work, and she sold for about $125,000 (not surprisingly - ouch).  That $125,000 was enough to buy, and customize a very nice Mooney M20J.  Would I recommend the LSA? Yes, for someone who thinks they are getting to the point where they might not pass a standard FAA medical, but who still could honestly self-evaluate their ability to fly, or for someone who would like to have all the new great avionics, at a very reasonable cost.  The LSA's cost per hour is very low - both direct operating costs, and engine reserves.  The annual (only had one) was very reasonable, especially compared to a Mooney, and the insurance was not too bad - slighly more than the Mooney in Avemco.  The negatives: Few LSAs actually can fly at 120 Knots IAS, and I hate flying any slower than I have to, and the 1320 pound gross weight limit makes for light wing loading. The insurance statistics (as published by Avemco) show a high accident rate for landing accidents - most often by higher time certificated pilots.  From experience, I can vouch that an LSA in a strong crosswind is a handful - much more difficult to land well in those circumstances than a Mooney. Mooneys, in my experience at least, handle mild to moderate turbulence fairly well - LSAs, not so well. I wanted an LSA for the idea of local flights in good weather, with no expectations that she would be a great cross country machine, and the DOVA DV-1 met those expectations, but then my priorities changed, and I remembered how much utility I had in my prior Mooney.  Incidently the Lightning LSA is a really nice airplane if you want a composite aircraft. I will post a couple of DOVA photos on my gallery later in the morning.

PilotDerek Community Regular

PilotDerek

Posted
Posted

That Lightning is a nice looking plane. I understand the LSA for those that can no longer get a medical, but weren't they supposed to be the "cheap" way to plane ownership originally? They had a piper sport were I learned to fly but it was rarely rented. The owner told me unless the air was as smooth as glass it just was not fun to be in, and being in the palm springs area those days are few and far between. I would love to be able to build a plane in the future.

triple8s Mentor

triple8s

Posted
Posted

Other than the Medical Card Issue, I dont see the point either. I told my wife that she better be thinking about lessons so when I do get to "that" point on the Medical Card that I'd still be able to fly. I have been really on her about this, (her learning to fly) two pilots in the front would greatly improve safety and make for LOTS more fun for both. I do wonder though if she would tell me what I'm doing wrong like when I am left seat in her G-35. Maybe Jetdriven will chime in on this one?

aviatoreb Grand Master

aviatoreb

Posted
Posted

Quote: triple8s

Other than the Medical Card Issue, I dont see the point either. I told my wife that she better be thinking about lessons so when I do get to "that" point on the Medical Card that I'd still be able to fly. I have been really on her about this, (her learning to fly) two pilots in the front would greatly improve safety and make for LOTS more fun for both. I do wonder though if she would tell me what I'm doing wrong like when I am left seat in her G-35. Maybe Jetdriven will chime in on this one?

N601RX Grand Master

N601RX

Posted
Posted

Here is a video of a LSA that I owned a few years ago.  Lots of fun, no insurance, no hanger fee, and $2 dollar a gallon pump gas.  I put over 300 hrs on it and probably gave over 100 rides.  Flew in and out of the back yard.


http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1526863115&ref=tn_tnmn#!/photo.php?v=1027689662293&set=t.1526863115&type=3&theater


http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1526863115&ref=tn_tnmn#!/photo.php?v=1018404190162&set=t.1526863115&type=3&theater

Ron McBride Mentor

Ron McBride

Posted
Posted

There is 1 at the airport that I fly out of. It has a red parachute. I was surprised by how quick that I caught it, and the fact that I could not see it from very far off.


Ron   at KMPI

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