I have an ask for Texas Mooney owners

[bcg]

Hi guys, thanks for letting me join the group.  I'm a student pilot located between San Antonio and Kerrville (Bandera if you know the area) with the goal of completing my PPL and then getting the instrument right after.  My goal is to buy a 231, 252, Encore or Bravo and use it for travel so I (hopefully) never have to deal with commercial air travel again. 

So here's my ask, is there anyone near this area with one of those models that would be willing to give me a ride?  I'm planning to head over to GMax and start browsing but, sitting in a plane on the ground and actually being in the air in one are totally different experiences.  Plus, it would be great to be able to be able to pick your brain about your experience with the plane, what maintenance has been like, and to hear from you what you wish you'd known to ask or look for when you were shopping.

I'm starting to look more seriously now so I'd really like to be able to experience a few different variations and make an informed decision.

I really appreciate anything someone can offer.

Bernie

[Danb]

Dan calling Lance, you have a neighbor considering Mooney 

[smwash02]

I've got a 252 converted to an Encore in Lockhart you could go for a ride in. 

Will be back in August. 

[bcg]

2 minutes ago, smwash02 said:

I've got a 252 converted to an Encore in Lockhart you could go for a ride in. 

Will be back in August. 

Cool, let me know when you get back.  I really appreciate it!

[Fly Boomer]

4 hours ago, bcg said:

My goal is to buy a 231, 252, Encore or Bravo

More M20Ks available right now than usual:

https://www.controller.com/listings/for-sale/mooney/m20k/aircraft

[JayMatt]

4 hours ago, bcg said:

Hi guys, thanks for letting me join the group.  I'm a student pilot located between San Antonio and Kerrville (Bandera if you know the area) with the goal of completing my PPL and then getting the instrument right after.  My goal is to buy a 231, 252, Encore or Bravo and use it for travel so I (hopefully) never have to deal with commercial air travel again. 

So here's my ask, is there anyone near this area with one of those models that would be willing to give me a ride?  I'm planning to head over to GMax and start browsing but, sitting in a plane on the ground and actually being in the air in one are totally different experiences.  Plus, it would be great to be able to be able to pick your brain about your experience with the plane, what maintenance has been like, and to hear from you what you wish you'd known to ask or look for when you were shopping.

I'm starting to look more seriously now so I'd really like to be able to experience a few different variations and make an informed decision.

I really appreciate anything someone can offer.

Bernie

When are you buying? Before or after your Instrument rating?

What is the distance mission? The added cost of a turbo may not provide the benefits you think it does. I'd stay open minded about all options still. 

What type flying is the majority of your flying going to be? I thought I wanted a 231 for a long time because I have some long distance flying that I do, however I ended up settling with a 201 and I'm pretty happy with that choice given long distance was only a couple times a year and I'm normally @ or below 3000' for most of my flying.

Based on weather, you won't be flying high enough to need a turbo without IFR. That has been my experience anyway, you don't have tons of great weather cross country. But this depends o how far your flights actually are. If they are random all over the states then yeah a good 231 or better may just be the ticket. 

I'f you're around Galveston ever I can take you up in a 201. We do go to san Antonio occasionally 

[T. Peterson]

Hi Bernie,

I bought a 1979 K model about 5 months ago. I live 8 miles east of Ennis which is 33 miles south of Dallas right off I-45. I keep my plane at Ennis airport and would be happy to help you in any way I can. Unfortunately I am often out of town due to my job, but if our schedules mesh we can certainly go flying or visit about Mooney airplanes. My knowledge is very elementary compared to most of the folks on this forum, but I will help where I can.

Torrey

[bcg]

28 minutes ago, JayMatt said:

When are you buying? Before or after your Instrument rating?

What is the distance mission? The added cost of a turbo may not provide the benefits you think it does. I'd stay open minded about all options still. 

What type flying is the majority of your flying going to be? I thought I wanted a 231 for a long time because I have some long distance flying that I do, however I ended up settling with a 201 and I'm pretty happy with that choice given long distance was only a couple times a year and I'm normally @ or below 3000' for most of my flying.

Based on weather, you won't be flying high enough to need a turbo without IFR. That has been my experience anyway, you don't have tons of great weather cross country. But this depends o how far your flights actually are. If they are random all over the states then yeah a good 231 or better may just be the ticket. 

I'f you're around Galveston ever I can take you up in a 201. We do go to san Antonio occasionally 

It's hard to say whether it will be before or after the instrument rating, it'll depend on when I decide for sure which model what I want and/or if I find a deal I just can't pass up.  I'm going straight into instrument though so, if I buy it before I'll use it for my instrument training and check ride.  My dad has flown for 45+ years, 22 flying tankers in the AF and then as a type rating instructing on the Falcon 10, G200, G350 and PL-24, he made me promise I wouldn't go anywhere until I had my instrument rating.

I would like to use it all over, I have to be in Atlanta later this year and was in San Francisco last month, both trips I would like to fly myself in the future.  We like the West and will be in the mountains of Co, Wy, Mt and Id some as well.  I would rather have the turbo and not need it than the other way around, I think the extra cost is easily justified even if it's not used every trip.  There will be some shorter trips around the state occasionally but, I want to buy for the longer trips. 

Other than some time in an LSA with my step sister's husband when I was a kid and the pilot training now, everything I did with my dad in the SIMs for the corporate aviation was instrument and I really prefer it.  I like flying an instrument approach and following the command bars to stay on the glide slope better than doing it visually, I like trusting the instruments and not having to worry about clouds or traffic as much.  VFR flight at lower altitudes is fun for just screwing around and seeing some sights but if I'm going to be traveling and actually want to get somewhere, I would rather file and fly at higher altitude where I can go faster and will usually have smoother air.  My wife is going to be a lot more likely to fly with me in those situations as well, she would not enjoy getting bounced around at 4,000 - 5,000 feet in the summer time.

[bcg]

40 minutes ago, T. Peterson said:

Hi Bernie,

I bought a 1979 K model about 5 months ago. I live 8 miles east of Ennis which is 33 miles south of Dallas right off I-45. I keep my plane at Ennis airport and would be happy to help you in any way I can. Unfortunately I am often out of town due to my job, but if our schedules mesh we can certainly go flying or visit about Mooney airplanes. My knowledge is very elementary compared to most of the folks on this forum, but I will help where I can.

Torrey

My dad is up that way, in Dallas.  I'm planning to fly in and see him when I get my Private, maybe we'll be able to arrange something then.

[T. Peterson]

Hi Bernie,

I bought a 1979 K model about 5 months ago. I live 8 miles east of Ennis which is 33 miles south of Dallas right off I-45. I keep my plane at Ennis airport and would be happy to help you in any way I can. Unfortunately I am often out of town due to my job, but if our schedules mesh we can certainly go flying or visit about Mooney airplanes. My knowledge is very elementary compared to most of the folks on this forum, but I will help where I can.

Torrey

[T. Peterson]

Absolutely. PM me when that time comes and we will make it happen.

Torrey

[LANCECASPER]

6 hours ago, bcg said:

Hi guys, thanks for letting me join the group.  I'm a student pilot located between San Antonio and Kerrville (Bandera if you know the area) with the goal of completing my PPL and then getting the instrument right after.  My goal is to buy a 231, 252, Encore or Bravo and use it for travel so I (hopefully) never have to deal with commercial air travel again. 

So here's my ask, is there anyone near this area with one of those models that would be willing to give me a ride?  I'm planning to head over to GMax and start browsing but, sitting in a plane on the ground and actually being in the air in one are totally different experiences.  Plus, it would be great to be able to be able to pick your brain about your experience with the plane, what maintenance has been like, and to hear from you what you wish you'd known to ask or look for when you were shopping.

I'm starting to look more seriously now so I'd really like to be able to experience a few different variations and make an informed decision.

I really appreciate anything someone can offer.

Bernie

I'm between Kerrville and Fredericksburg. I've got a busy couple weeks coming up, but message me your contact info and we can get together.

Lance

[bcg]

7 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

I'm between Kerrville and Fredericksburg. I've got a busy couple weeks coming up, but message me your contact info and we can get together.

Lance

Done, thank you!

[Schllc]

1 hour ago, bcg said:

It's hard to say whether it will be before or after the instrument rating, it'll depend on when I decide for sure which model what I want and/or if I find a deal I just can't pass up.  I'm going straight into instrument though so, if I buy it before I'll use it for my instrument training and check ride.  My dad has flown for 45+ years, 22 flying tankers in the AF and then as a type rating instructing on the Falcon 10, G200, G350 and PL-24, he made me promise I wouldn't go anywhere until I had my instrument rating.

I would like to use it all over, I have to be in Atlanta later this year and was in San Francisco last month, both trips I would like to fly myself in the future.  We like the West and will be in the mountains of Co, Wy, Mt and Id some as well.  I would rather have the turbo and not need it than the other way around, I think the extra cost is easily justified even if it's not used every trip.  There will be some shorter trips around the state occasionally but, I want to buy for the longer trips. 

Other than some time in an LSA with my step sister's husband when I was a kid and the pilot training now, everything I did with my dad in the SIMs for the corporate aviation was instrument and I really prefer it.  I like flying an instrument approach and following the command bars to stay on the glide slope better than doing it visually, I like trusting the instruments and not having to worry about clouds or traffic as much.  VFR flight at lower altitudes is fun for just screwing around and seeing some sights but if I'm going to be traveling and actually want to get somewhere, I would rather file and fly at higher altitude where I can go faster and will usually have smoother air.  My wife is going to be a lot more likely to fly with me in those situations as well, she would not enjoy getting bounced around at 4,000 - 5,000 feet in the summer time.

My advice would be to get the plane you plan to fly as soon as you can afford to, and do as much of your training in that platform.  

There is no reason to spend all the time getting proficient through training in an aircraft only to hop into a completely different platform you have to learn and get comfortable with all over again.  This seems counter intuitive to me. 

I got my first mooney, a g1000 ovation 3 with about 30 hours total, and I had not taken my ppl checkride.  I finished my ppl and did all of my IFR in that mooney and I am very proficient in the platform.  

 A few years later, I  sold the ovation and bought an acclaim.  I would advise you to get feedback from people who have owned turbo planes, or someone who has actually owned the model that you are considering.  There are an awful lot of people willing to share anecdotal stories about what things cost, or how they perform, but they have not actually owned the model in question. 

I have owned several turbo mooney's and do not enjoy being in one without the added capability,  a turbo's benefits are not only top speed, and I have also not found the turbos to be significantly more money to maintain either. To be clear, I have only owned g1000 ovations and acclaims, and have right at 1000 hours over 8 years, so my experience is nowhere near as deep as others like @LANCECASPER.  He has had turbo mooneys for probably 3x as long.

Everything in aviation is a tradeoff, determine your mission, as well as what you want, and of course what you can afford and go for it!

[bcg]

1 hour ago, Schllc said:

Everything in aviation is a tradeoff, determine your mission, as well as what you want, and of course what you can afford and go for it!

This is just like boats, there's no such thing as the perfect boat, there's just the least objectionable compromise.

[Schllc]

40 minutes ago, bcg said:

This is just like boats, there's no such thing as the perfect boat, there's just the least objectionable compromise.

perhaps. people also say the two happiest days of a boat owners life are the day they buy and the day they sell.

I have not had that experience.  I have loved all of my boats and airplanes.  If i don't "love" them,  i don't buy them.  

my reasoning is that its a large discretionary purchase and if you don't love it, every time you write a check you will resent it.  But if you love it you will do it very joyfully.  buy the plane you love and you wont regret it.

[bcg]

5 minutes ago, Schllc said:

perhaps. people also say the two happiest days of a boat owners life are the day they buy and the day they sell.

I have not had that experience.  I have loved all of my boats and airplanes.  If i don't "love" them,  i don't buy them.  

my reasoning is that its a large discretionary purchase and if you don't love it, every time you write a check you will resent it.  But if you love it you will do it very joyfully.  buy the plane you love and you wont regret it.

I wasn't happy the day I sold any of my boats either.  Life had just changed and they were being neglected.  Like an airplane, the worst thing you can do to one is not use it.

[Schllc]

4 minutes ago, bcg said:

I wasn't happy the day I sold any of my boats either.  Life had just changed and they were being neglected.  Like an airplane, the worst thing you can do to one is not use it.

AGREED!!

If you love it you will use it!

[carusoam]

Living in TX… perfect place for a Mooney… 
 

Valley Ranch was a nice place to be…. (Near Dallas)

If you can… train for the IR in the plane you own…. You get to know each button, and knob, like your flight depends on it….

Dads give great insight… 
 

Best regards,

-a-

[JayMatt]

14 hours ago, bcg said:

 I would rather have the turbo and not need it than the other way around, I think the extra cost is easily justified even if it's not used every trip.  There will be some shorter trips around the state occasionally but, I want to buy for the longer trips. 

 

Sounds like you're on the right track. I looked before I had my PPL and I couldn't find insurance that would cover me for less than half the price of the plane a year. After your PPL you are looking at 3700 a year through Avemco, everyone else is double that. You have a gears up and no one will insure you in a mooney for the next 10 years. So remember GUMPS and repeat it 50 times till you're on the ground. Good luck on your endeavors, the addiction only gets worse when you have a plane in your own hangar and can do as you please whenever. 

[Fly Boomer]

15 hours ago, bcg said:

I would rather have the turbo and not need it than the other way around

Yes!

[bcg]

1 hour ago, JayMatt said:

Sounds like you're on the right track. I looked before I had my PPL and I couldn't find insurance that would cover me for less than half the price of the plane a year. After your PPL you are looking at 3700 a year through Avemco, everyone else is double that. You have a gears up and no one will insure you in a mooney for the next 10 years. So remember GUMPS and repeat it 50 times till you're on the ground. Good luck on your endeavors, the addiction only gets worse when you have a plane in your own hangar and can do as you please whenever. 

Yeah, I'm expecting insurance to be expensive initially and hopefully decrease over time. 

I wonder sometimes if after a gear up if it wouldn't be cheaper in the long run to just fix it out of pocket and never tell the insurance it happened.  I imagine they would probably find out anyway from the NTSB or FAA reporting.  Maybe if it didn't cost them anything they would be more lenient about it though.  Probably not, insurance companies generally suck... 

[Fly Boomer]

20 minutes ago, bcg said:

I imagine they would probably find out anyway from the NTSB or FAA reporting.

Read this:

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2013/october/21/accident-or-incident