New insurance claim

[David Lloyd]

A week ago yesterday, a thunderstorm and strong, gusty winds blew in several walls in two rows of open T-hangars at Stanly County Airport, KVUJ.  About an hour later, I got an email from the airport advising of damage to the hangars and to move my airplane right away as the hangars may be structurally unsound. About an hour later I got a phone call from the airport with the same information.  Shortly after that, I got a phone call from Lew, Mooney owner and another hangar resident.  Lew advised my hangar and airplane had been damaged as well as several others.  He sent these pictures.

The right elevator left a mark on the hangar wall, scraped off a little paint.  As far as I can tell, the only real damage is the left elevator in the picture.  The day before, I had cleaned and waxed the airplane, all that dirt appeared with the storm.

After years with Global, their rates have more than doubled for me in the last three years.  Upon questioning, the agent indicated the big factor in the increases is my 71 years.  Not only that, but was told their offer to renew this year was no guarantee for the possibility to renew in the future.  Well, thank you for being candid.  Avemco has a reputation for insuring older pilots and that was acknowledged within seconds during my next phone call.  High in the past, the premium at Avemco was reasonably close to what Global offered.  Huge difference was the stated willingness to insure me for years to come.  So, 13 days into the new policy, I phoned the Avemco claims line.  Another real live person, here's what happened, okay, an adjuster will call shortly.  A supervisor called the next morning and explained an adjuster would call in a couple hours to set up a time to look at the airplane and hangars.  Several hours later, an adjuster did call and arrange to meet me at the airport Thursday morning.  You know he was a nice guy, he owns a 1966 M20C.

Paperwork, claims statement, more pictures, copies of airplane logbooks, etc.  Shop at KVUJ working on an estimate after I located a replacement at Loewen's Aircraft Salvage.  Just minutes after sending the email from their website, Paul Loewen responded.  Could have been Sherry using Paul's name.  I talked to Paul several times about 40 years ago as I bought several STC mods for my first Mooney.  Adjuster was on time to the minute, more pictures, then on the way to another heartbreak.  As I was taking the adjuster back to his car, my phone rang and the shop had the estimate ready if I wanted to stop by.  Good timing.  

Estimate included removal of both elevators, inspection of all brackets, actuators, springs, replacement of hardware, inspection of right elevator, inspection of replacement elevator, strip, prime, paint, balance, installation of both elevators, rigging and test flight.

That's where it stands, waiting for insurance to nod their head.  Airport is trying to figure out what to do about the 40 year old hangars.

Lew's airplane was not damaged.  It was up at AGL getting an annual inspection.  This was a big year for Lew.  New shock discs, prop overhaul with new B hub, and found a cracked rudder pedal steering arm.  His airplane is going to be ready end of next week.  I won't be giving him a ride.  Anyone?

[LANCECASPER]

I hate to say that you are fortunate .  . but I think you are. This could have been a lot worse. The whole building could have collapsed on your airplane. The fact that you have someone on top of it and that you already have an estimate and have sourced parts means that you should be back in the air relatively soon. The insurance company gets by with less expense since you are getting it repaired on the field.

[ArtVandelay]

I see you have it tied down, why didn’t the tail tied down prevent this?

[cferr59]

 

 

14 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

I see you have it tied down, why didn’t the tail tied down prevent this?

It looks like the hangar wall was repositioned such that it interfered with the aircraft.

[David Lloyd]

14 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

I see you have it tied down, why didn’t the tail tied down prevent this?

That tail tie down was about as tight as a banjo string afterwards.  Before it was merely tight.  No matter, that part of the wall moved about 3 feet in from the side.  See that blue tape on the back wall?  That used to be in the center of the back wall.

[hammdo]

Wow, close call... hope everyone else there is ok too...

-Don

[McMooney]

2 hours ago, David Lloyd said:

That tail tie down was about as tight as a banjo string afterwards.  Before it was merely tight.  No matter, that part of the wall moved about 3 feet in from the side.  See that blue tape on the back wall?  That used to be in the center of the back wall.

newer owner here,  why isn't the airport covering the dmg?  you'd think a hangar collapsing wouldn't be my fault.

admitted, i haven't really read all the details of my policy or lease

[Rick Junkin]

4 hours ago, David Lloyd said:

His airplane is going to be ready end of next week.  I won't be giving him a ride.  Anyone?

@David Lloyd I'd be happy to hop over the hills and carry him up to MRN. I need to stop in for a visit with Lynn and Ron at AGL anyway, it would be no trouble to go another 60 miles or so first. Let me know if there are no better offers and we can make a plan.

Cheers,
Rick

[jetdriven]

Why should your insurance pay for the hanger falling on your airplane? If they are hangers built to standards, it should not have happened. So I guess it puts you in a precarious situation given your  age and your insurance carrier, but really, the airport should be covering this.

[Pinecone]

15 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

Why should your insurance pay for the hanger falling on your airplane? If they are hangers built to standards, it should not have happened. So I guess it puts you in a precarious situation given your  age and your insurance carrier, but really, the airport should be covering this.

Most likely, your insurance will cover you, and the subrogate the claim against the airport.  And it ends up as not a claim on your insurance, and you you do not have to flight with the other insurance company.

[larrynimmo]

If you look for my thread on ground damage I had a similar damage on the elevator….it is my expectation that you have significant damage to the tail…look for popped rivets.

also measure distances and heights of empennage compared to the rest of the plane 

brand new elevators can be had for under $5,000 each

[David Lloyd]

9 hours ago, McMooney said:

newer owner here,  why isn't the airport covering the dmg?  you'd think a hangar collapsing wouldn't be my fault.

admitted, i haven't really read all the details of my policy or lease

 

7 hours ago, Pinecone said:

Most likely, your insurance will cover you, and the subrogate the claim against the airport.  And it ends up as not a claim on your insurance, and you you do not have to flight with the other insurance company.

I bought insurance to protect me.  The airport has insurance to protect them.  I contacted my insurance to get the claim going and to make repairs in a timely manner.  I don't want to get involved with trying to get someone else' insurance to do something.  If my insurance company wants to subrogate the claim, they will take care of me first before duking it out with the others.

[David Lloyd]

59 minutes ago, larrynimmo said:

If you look for my thread on ground damage I had a similar damage on the elevator….it is my expectation that you have significant damage to the tail…look for popped rivets.

also measure distances and heights of empennage compared to the rest of the plane 

brand new elevators can be had for under $5,000 each

Yes, I looked carefully before the adjuster showed up.  Still, until things are taken apart it is difficult to know for certain.  Salvage elevators without corrosion, with new paint are fine for a 47 year old airplane.  Corrosion or anything more than a very minor ding is a no go.

[steingar]

A pal had his hangar collapse on his Cessna 180 after a big storm. Insurance jacked him around bad, he wound up paying about 12 grand out of pocket (in addition to his deductible) for repairs.  They were sort of awful to me when I had my claim, though I only went out of pocket for a half an AMU, and only then because I didn't want to deal with the adjuster ever again in this lifetime.

[Pinecone]

4 hours ago, David Lloyd said:

 

I bought insurance to protect me.  The airport has insurance to protect them.  I contacted my insurance to get the claim going and to make repairs in a timely manner.  I don't want to get involved with trying to get someone else' insurance to do something.  If my insurance company wants to subrogate the claim, they will take care of me first before duking it out with the others.

EXACTLY

And your insurance company will pay to have the repairs done right, and then go after the other party.

[McMooney]

5 hours ago, Pinecone said:

EXACTLY

And your insurance company will pay to have the repairs done right, and then go after the other party.

If anything like auto insurance, they will then turn around and raise your rates

[jetdriven]

Perhaps some of the insurance expert here can check on, but anytime they pay money it counts as a claim. We had a hail claim  on our airplane (very first trip) and although they said they did not raise our rates the price the next year was higher, but curiously, all the other companies refused to quote us. Which is pretty interesting and they said after three years that would go away. 

[David Lloyd]

Avemco has agreed the claim is covered, the estimate acceptable. They will reimburse me when presented with an invoice. They would pay for parts up front if needed (no).

 I doubt they would attempt to collect this small a claim from the airport’s insurer.  Don’t know, their business.

Several claims over my 45 years of flying, 44 years of airplane ownership. Each time the agent or adjuster was reasonably prompt in returning phone calls, helpful with forms, seemed to enjoy their job. Each time, when the dust settled, I felt fairly treated.

First claim, airplane was damaged in Bahamas by a military helicopter.  Fortunately it was flyable. A windshield, a fairing, some paint. I do not remember any change in my premiums.

Next claim, a contractor used my electricity in my open hangar to cut some metal with a chop saw.  Dented my newly painted aileron. Sprayed hot metal on my newly painted wing.  Aileron replaced, that and wing repainted.  I do not remember any change in my premiums. Contractor buried at end of hangar row.

Next claim, RV7 prop strike. I was reimbursed $40 (?) per hour for removing and reinstalling the engine and prop. Insurance allowed only 17 hours labor for that. Later I documented 27 hours labor and that is what they paid.  The engine shop would not do the prop strike inspection AD without doing the Lycoming SB which dictated teardown and replacement of various parts including magnetos. Insurance didn’t blink, paid the SB.  The next year, my premium we down about 20%. Year after up a little as the next year but still less than the year of the claim.  Go figure.
 

That last claim, insurance did not pay the whole thing. They paid for a prop blade but only about 25% of the overhaul on the 4 year old Hartzell. Fair. Engine had some bad lifters and cam I bought. Fair. There was some other overhaul period involved with the engine but I don’t remember exactly.  I was pleased with the fairness of it all.

[EricJ]

29 minutes ago, David Lloyd said:

Contractor buried at end of hangar row.

That seems kind of drastic.   I probably don't want to work on your field. 

[A64Pilot]

20 hours ago, jetdriven said:

Why should your insurance pay for the hanger falling on your airplane? If they are hangers built to standards, it should not have happened. So I guess it puts you in a precarious situation given your  age and your insurance carrier, but really, the airport should be covering this.

I’m no insurance guy or Lawyer but believe it’s considered an act of God, unless the airport was negligent somehow. I can show you where a Thunderstorm broke 20,000 lb tie down straps and flipped over 20,000 lb helicopters.

[MikeOH]

2 hours ago, David Lloyd said:

Contractor buried at end of hangar row.

Just curious, were the burial costs covered by insurance, or was that on you?

[Pinecone]

12 hours ago, McMooney said:

If anything like auto insurance, they will then turn around and raise your rates

Not at all if they subrogate the claim and the other insurance pays.

 

If your car insurance goes up when you have  claim based on the other driver at fault, you need a new insurance company.

[Parker_Woodruff]

I think it would be a hard case to make that the airport was negligent here unless maybe they had operation control over some doors which would have protected things better if they'd been closed (but sounds like there are no hangar doors).  It's probably a difficult task to say the builder of the of the hangars was at fault, too.

This is a weather event and is yet another claim event I've seen this past year or so while a plane is properly parked and it falls victim to some outside force.

[carusoam]

Great insight shared Parker!

Thanks for supplying the guidance.

Best regards,

-a-

[David Lloyd]

11 Weeks, my airplane is repaired.  Two salvage elevators from Lowen, strip, inspect, repaint, new hardware etc.  Internal parts looked good.  Bungees were disassembled, cleaned, greased.  Rigged.  Should have invoice to send copy for insurance reimbursement tomorrow.

If you are wondering about the delay, there are several factors.  Like most other shops, the one here is busy.  Annuals booked months out.  Anything else they try to fit people in.  Several other planes were damaged in the same incident.  They were in line before me as I was a day late.  One of those repairs involves a new or very well kept Piper Saratoga that suffered damage to the stabilator, right wingtip, left wing and a big dent in the fuselage roof.  Rumor is, $75-100k.  Who gets more attention, a $10k job or $100k job?

The hangars themselves, the airport announced today the repair contract has been awarded, they will keep us advised when we can return.

Did the test flight yesterday after it cooled off to about 90*.  I think it did as it should although in cruise flight the elevator counterweight, both sides, is slightly up rather than being in-trail.  Up 1/2-3/4".  Never paid attention previously but I think it was very close to being in trail.  Maybe it is correct now, wrong before.  Maybe it is my old, faulty memory.  For you guys with C models, what does it look like, just you up front and no baggage?

I don't think I have ever left an airplane sit more than 3 weeks when something did not break or malfunction the next flight.  Record is intact, ten minutes into the flight the 70A circuit breaker popped.  Turned around and headed back.  Near the airport, I pushed the breaker in, everything came back up.  Voltage normal, gear down, flaps down, over the numbers it popped again.  Accompanied by an electrical burning odor.  45 Seconds later it was pretty distinct when I shut the engine down.  Never had a main CB pop before.  Diodes, field windings, brushes, broken wires and voltage regulators, but never before the big CB.  Didn't think that alternator had enough beans to trip 70A. It's going to be obvious when found.  I'm betting a chaffed wire.