MountainGoat Posted April 8, 2022 Report Posted April 8, 2022 So it looks like the new guy for the long range tanks is charging a hefty fee. Does anyone know if there is reason to doubt his workmanship? Quote
LANCECASPER Posted April 8, 2022 Report Posted April 8, 2022 Just now, MountainGoat said: So it looks like the new guy for the long range tanks is charging a hefty fee. Does anyone know if there is reason to doubt his workmanship? I would ask him for names of those that he's installed so you can see what the satisfaction is like. If he doesn't provide that I would be suspect. 1 Quote
carusoam Posted April 8, 2022 Report Posted April 8, 2022 33 minutes ago, MountainGoat said: So it looks like the new guy for the long range tanks is charging a hefty fee. Does anyone know if there is reason to doubt his workmanship? Simply an unknown entity in a small community… Be looking for the usual evidence of quality and workmanship… (shop visit?) until, there are pireps available… It will be interesting to see what the relationship is with the original STC holder is… José is in Florida, Shaune is in TX… Being in VT will add to the challenges… compared to being local to TX… Interested in being first? Best regards, -a- Quote
MountainGoat Posted April 8, 2022 Report Posted April 8, 2022 I'll see what i can find. It doesn't seem reassuring that Blue Skies wants to hire experienced A&Ps at only $25/hr. Seems like they should be worth more than that, though I really have no idea. Quote
Fly Boomer Posted April 8, 2022 Report Posted April 8, 2022 17 minutes ago, MountainGoat said: Blue Skies wants to hire experienced A&Ps at only $25/hr Seems low to me as well, but a staggering number of people earn less than $50k. More than 7 billion. Quote
Austintatious Posted April 8, 2022 Report Posted April 8, 2022 WOW 16k ?!?! you can buy a lot of gas with that! Even at todays prices! Now, I am going to chime in as a potential customer to Monroy. I have two rockets. One has the ER tanks and one does not which is sort of rare. A rocket without ER tanks is, quite possibly, the BEST candidate for a tank upgrade in the Mooney fleet. To Monroy I say definitively, There is no freaking way I would ever pay 16k for this upgrade, even with the ideal candidate of an airplane. WHY? I would certainly be able to utilize larger tanks. They would probably save me a fuel stop here and there. I would also be able to fill up and tanker cheaper gas at times. But the reality is that unless I was flying 500 hours a year for a decade, I would never break even on the cost. We are talking about 10% of the aircraft value for this upgrade. The 16k price makes absolutely no sense. Anyone with a common mission that would require the ER tanks likely already bought an aircraft with them. With the stock tanks, I can go 4 hours endurance cruising anywhere from 185-195 knots depending on what altitude I go to (750 ish miles). That puts me into bladder limitations. For some reason, most anyplace that is not in the boonies is now commanding gas prices that are significantly higher than the boonies price. I go from FTW to Galveston regularly. When I leave FTW, I stop halfway and get gas because I save 2.00 a gallon. I Will put on about 60 gallons, fly to Galveston and then come back non stop, rinse repeat. This knocks off 120.00 + per trip. Even if I had the ER tanks, I would still make this stop. When I go down there 20 times a year, the fuel savings add up bigtime. Ignoring all that fuel skinflint stuff, Comparing ER to non-er, ER tanks would be beneficial in a few mission profiles. The first would be for a leg more than 750 miles but less than 950. This eliminates a stop. The second would be a trip that is more than 1500 miles but less than 1900. The non ER rocket would need 2 stops vs the ER tanked aircraft only needing 1. I see those "slots" as very narrow. If I need to go less than 750 miles, I can do it non stop in either. If I need to go 1000 - 1400 miles, I have to stop in either. Now, I know I am only one person, and other people are in different situations. IMHO, 16k is a hard no on ER tanks for me. I would consider it around 8k. And the only reason for that would be for resale. If I truly needed them, at 16k, I would sooner sell the aircraft and buy something else altogether. Quote
MountainGoat Posted April 8, 2022 Report Posted April 8, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Fly Boomer said: Seems low to me as well, but a staggering number of people earn less than $50k. More than 7 billion. Yes, but most of them live in places with much lower cost of living (in US$ terms) than the US. I remember working for a major tech hardware company, they budgeted engineers in the bay area at 3-4x what the budgeted for in India, but compared to cost of living, the engineers in India were paid more. Edited April 8, 2022 by MountainGoat Quote
philiplane Posted April 10, 2022 Report Posted April 10, 2022 For what it's worth, adding 30 gallons of fuel capacity to nearly any plane has always cost about $9k, installed. Whether the method was external tip tanks, or internal tanks, the cost has been very similar across all brands. And in the past, when the manufacturers raised the price above that level, sales stopped. Quote
KRviator Posted April 14, 2022 Report Posted April 14, 2022 So what is the solution for those of us that aren't in the US? Ferry the plan to Texas? 120 hours flight time, a 100-hourly downroute, etc etc You might as well consider the upgrade at well over $50,000 AUD then. Mandating just one shop to do the install seems counter-intuitive, particularly if there aren't any pireps about the install quality or after-sales support available. I'm considering an Ovation to replace the RV-9, and while you may well be able to get 100USG in the stock tanks, the extra 30 would go a long way (pardon the terrible pun) to helping me avoid a fuel stop on particular flights and it's something I'd be actively considering early in the ownership journey - but not if I need to take her to the US for it... Quote
carusoam Posted April 14, 2022 Report Posted April 14, 2022 6 minutes ago, KRviator said: So what is the solution for those of us that aren't in the US? Ferry the plan to Texas? 120 hours flight time, a 100-hourly downroute, etc etc You might as well consider the upgrade at well over $50,000 AUD then. Mandating just one shop to do the install seems counter-intuitive, particularly if there aren't any pireps about the install quality or after-sales support available. I'm considering an Ovation to replace the RV-9, and while you may well be able to get 100USG in the stock tanks, the extra 30 would go a long way (pardon the terrible pun) to helping me avoid a fuel stop on particular flights and it's something I'd be actively considering early in the ownership journey - but not if I need to take her to the US for it... Bring the expertise to the plane… 100gal is pretty good for traveling 900nm…. For 5+ hrs… But, some MSers like their 130gal for their 2knm trips…. Which is more expensive…. Bring plane to the expertise, or bring the expertise to the plane…? Tough choices… -a- Quote
KRviator Posted April 15, 2022 Report Posted April 15, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, carusoam said: Bring the expertise to the plane… 100gal is pretty good for traveling 900nm…. For 5+ hrs… But, some MSers like their 130gal for their 2knm trips…. Which is more expensive…. Bring plane to the expertise, or bring the expertise to the plane…? Tough choices… -a- Either way, it renders it unafforable to do sadly, or rather, the cost/benefit isn't there if I have to take either of those options. The other problem I just realised with either of those approaches becomes one of legality. A US A&P/IA cannot perform work on an Australian-registered aircraft, either in Aust or in the US and I would imagine the same problem exists for European or Canadian registered aircraft too. Any mods need to be done by an engineer certified in the country of registration. While I don't need 2000NM straight up, I will be doing 2000NM flights perhaps twice a year (YPKA-YCNK/YSBK) and would really like to avoid the delays (and cost!) of a fuel stop in Alice Springs/Ayres Rock, as well as the bragging rights you get by saying you can, literally fly straight across the middle of Australia non-stop. If I've read the P-charts correctly, I can eke out ~9.5hours of cruise endurance at FL175/45% from 103USG of usuable fuel, but SkyVector tells me I need 11.1 for that flight today, so the extra 30USG would cover that - however, apart from the Monroy/Empaero/BSA combination there's no alternative to get that extra fuel, and that leaves me confused why a company would exclude a significant potential market of Mooney Owners overseas when all they have to do is supply the parts and the STC paperwork. Edited April 15, 2022 by KRviator Quote
philiplane Posted April 15, 2022 Report Posted April 15, 2022 I think it's time for a poll. Someone can set this up, with questions like this- Who will pay $9k, installed at the shop of their choice, for the Monroy fuel STC? Who will pay $16k, installed, only at the current Monroy STC holder's shop? Quote
carusoam Posted April 15, 2022 Report Posted April 15, 2022 2 hours ago, KRviator said: Either way, it renders it unafforable to do sadly, or rather, the cost/benefit isn't there if I have to take either of those options. The other problem I just realised with either of those approaches becomes one of legality. A US A&P/IA cannot perform work on an Australian-registered aircraft, either in Aust or in the US and I would imagine the same problem exists for European or Canadian registered aircraft too. Any mods need to be done by an engineer certified in the country of registration. While I don't need 2000NM straight up, I will be doing 2000NM flights perhaps twice a year (YPKA-YCNK/YSBK) and would really like to avoid the delays (and cost!) of a fuel stop in Alice Springs/Ayres Rock, as well as the bragging rights you get by saying you can, literally fly straight across the middle of Australia non-stop. If I've read the P-charts correctly, I can eke out ~9.5hours of cruise endurance at FL175/45% from 103USG of usuable fuel, but SkyVector tells me I need 11.1 for that flight today, so the extra 30USG would cover that - however, apart from the Monroy/Empaero/BSA combination there's no alternative to get that extra fuel, and that leaves me confused why a company would exclude a significant potential market of Mooney Owners overseas when all they have to do is supply the parts and the STC paperwork. the Monroy company is/was a very small company… with really good ideas… José was their owner and tech guru… and flew an M20J… and knows a lot about radios, antennas and many other things… He also delivered many Mooneys across the pond…. He probably was tech support for mechanics in their countries… so the signature chain was legal… and the quality matched as well… that way you bought the kit, and the STC, and got José in the deal… Oddly…. I thought these long flights were normal for everybody…. Until I did the fuel math…. They become normal again after the kids move out on their own… José is still with us… and visits every now and then… @Gagarin… Best regards, -a- 1 Quote
KRviator Posted April 27, 2022 Report Posted April 27, 2022 So just to ask the question about how a non-US aircraft could install these tanks, I sent the team at Emapa an email on the 15th basically highlighting the above points, an Oz-registered aircraft has to be worked on by an Oz LAME (A&P equivalent) and asking how we could incorporate the LR tanks into a bird down here, but I haven't had a reply yet. My next step was sending an email to the source, Monroy Aerospace, yesterday arvo and I promptly got a reply from Jose himself 8 hours later (!), indicating I could purchase the kit and have it installed locally down here instead of ferrying the Ovation to Texas. They're out of stock right now, but give it a month or two and I should be able to get a kit - assuming I complete the purchase of the plane, that is! So that's good news for anyone outside the US, and straight from the horses mouth too. 4 Quote
Ulysse Posted April 28, 2022 Report Posted April 28, 2022 9 hours ago, KRviator said: give it a month or two and I should be able to get a kit He has been saying that for the last 2 years at least. I hope it is true this time Quote
carusoam Posted April 28, 2022 Report Posted April 28, 2022 15 hours ago, Ulysse said: He has been saying that for the last 2 years at least. I hope it is true this time Some health issues take longer than two years to overcome… We all hope things are getting better for him with time… Best regards, -a- 1 Quote
Ulysse Posted April 29, 2022 Report Posted April 29, 2022 3 hours ago, carusoam said: Some health issues take longer than two years to overcome… I know and I am really sorry for his health issues. But he has been giving false hopes to many people by telling them that "next month" they will get a kit when he should know by now that he cannot deliver on this promise. I called him every month for most of last year before giving up, and everytime he would promise a kit for "next month" 1 Quote
rbp Posted April 29, 2022 Report Posted April 29, 2022 maybe if we placed a group order for 5 kits at the same time, he would be motivated? Quote
Austintatious Posted April 29, 2022 Report Posted April 29, 2022 I know a secrete that I am not at liberty to share... although I have to wonder why I was told if it was not to be shared, however I will honor my agreement to keep my lips sealed. I am sure the news will surface soon, what I will say for now is that the LR tanks will likely be available for around 10k installed. Quote
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