Non-Garmin dealer parts for a panel upgrade

[N9405V]

I’m about to pull the trigger on a panel upgrade (G3X/GFC500), looking at the December/January timeframe, and want to try and start acquiring some of the parts needed before hand to reduce the sticker shock. I do plan on using the Garmin eis.

 

What are some items I can buy over the next few months that will make life easier?

 

Digital fuel senders? Which ones?

 

Electronic ignition?

 

Basically what am I missing that would be nice to have and install while the plane is opened up?

 

Spend my money. ;-)

 

 

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[ArtVandelay]

Not going to happen, at least in that timeframe, Garmin is backed up by 6 months.

[N9405V]

Not going to happen, at least in that timeframe, Garmin is backed up by 6 months.

I’ll let my avionics guy answer to timing. Do you have anything useful to add to the questions I asked?


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[ArtVandelay]

I’ll let my avionics guy answer to timing. Do you have anything useful to add to the questions I asked?


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I would replace center post compass with a panel mount, improves the view:


I stuck with factory senders, many here upgraded to Cies.
Hard to recommend without knowing what you have now?
Nav/com? Audio panel?

[Mooney Dog]

1 hour ago, N9405V said:

What are some items I can buy over the next few months that will make life easier?

A winning lotto ticket! 

 

Ive heard good things about CiES fuel sending from a dude on my field, though i havnt made the jump myself.

If you want to go EIS now would be the time to do it. I know some electroair guys and used their systems quite a bit. The performance increases are very nice. You have an E so i think its somewhere around 3-4 grand to convert iirc.

Not really needed but the electric step change over so you can completely pull the vac system if you havent already. 

 

Garmin is on a heavy delay with part right now. You could get lucky, but expect a 2 to 3 month delay in parts sending. 

[toto]

26 minutes ago, Mooney Dog said:

If you want to go EIS now would be the time to do it. I know some electroair guys and used their systems quite a bit. The performance increases are very nice. You have an E so i think its somewhere around 3-4 grand to convert iirc.

Just a note that the Garmin EIS is their engine information system, while EIS is also used generically for electronic ignition systems. 

The Garmin EIS is a good consideration for this install, but an Electroair system would be largely a separate effort. 
 

[PT20J]

I just went through this. A couple of things to consider. First, most Garmin equipment for certified aircraft can only be purchased through a Garmin Dealer. The shop charged me the same price for the PMA450B audio panel and CiES fuel senders as I would have paid if I purchased them myself. I found it better to let the shop buy everything (they gave me a discount on the Garmin stuff which most dealers will do) and now there is no issue about who's responsibility it is if any piece of equipment has a warranty issue.

Skip

EDIT: Sorry, I just realized that you were only looking for non-Garmin parts, so my comments about Garmin are not relevant.

I did purchase and supply a AV-20 because I decided to include it at the last minute as tie breaker for the G3X and G5 AHRS (all the jets seem to have three, why not me?).

One thing I did to save some labor was to remove and reinstall the interior myself. Good time to refurbish and interior plastic if it needs it and also inspect the tubing and perhaps replace some of the fiberglass insulation since SB 208 only calls for replacing the side panel insulation with foam and the baggage compartment and ceiling are left with fiberglass.

Skip

Edited October 3, 2021 by PT20J

[N9405V]

I would replace center post compass with a panel mount, improves the view:


I stuck with factory senders, many here upgraded to Cies.
Hard to recommend without knowing what you have now?
Nav/com? Audio panel?

Center post compass is definitely on the list to remove.

I currently have a GTN650 driving a king hsi. I don’t have the cash right now to replace nav 2 (kx170b) or the transponder, kt76 with a tail beacon. Those will be replaced upon failure.

Audio panel is a kma24. It works and again, was planning on replacing when it died of natural causes. Is there a replacement I should consider?

Do I need to upgrade fuel senders for the garmin engine monitoring to work?

As far as electronic ignition, my main thing was if the planes torn apart, let’s do as many of the upgrades while it’s in pieces.

Electro air of surefly?


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[Mooney Dog]

1 hour ago, toto said:

Just a note that the Garmin EIS is their engine information system, while EIS is also used generically for electronic ignition systems. 

The Garmin EIS is a good consideration for this install, but an Electroair system would be largely a separate effort. 
 

oops, good catch. both are good to have though! 

[MIm20c]

The best way to save money at this point is to limit the scope of work. Just do the basics related to the panel upgrade you’re planning on. Instead spend the time laying out the panel (many fall short) keeping in mind what changes will occur went things fail down the road.

[PT20J]

Garmin fixed the G3X EIS problem with analog fuel senders so you can keep those if they are working properly. You could switch to the CiES electronic senders later. Just be aware that CiES requires new wiring and power (so adding a circuit breaker) so the installation will be less expensive if you do it with the G3X install.

If you are on a budget, I would put electronic ignition way down the list. Cost/benefit is a lot less than with avionics upgrades. The Surefly is easy to install and would not be any easier during an avionics installation except for power wire depending on where your battery is located.

No problem with not upgrading KX 170B until later. Just be aware that it won’t interface to the G3X. 

Newer audio panels have built in intercoms, Bluetooth phone and music connections, USB chargers and other cool features. I’m installing a PMA450B. The problem with audio panels is that they interface to a LOT of stuff - lots of wires. So, if you are going to upgrade, the installation will be less expensive to do it with the G3X installation. That said, the KMA 24 is a fine basic audio panel and if you have a good intercom and don’t really need all those other bells and whistles, then keeping it is not a bad option.

Skip

 

 

[carusoam]

Good news regarding Ceis fuel senders… they are both analog and digital…

If you only use the analog side… they are still more precise than the original equipment that was good enough to point out 1/8ths of a tank…

The Ceis can get you to parts of a gallon…

A good FF sensor mounted in a modern location may be worth looking into as well…. Some have been mounted in sub-optimal locations back in the day…

Since running out of fuel is high in the error list… these two make sense to acquire…

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic…

Best regards,

-a-

[Baker Avionics]

On 10/4/2021 at 10:21 PM, carusoam said:

Good news regarding Ceis fuel senders… they are both analog and digital…

If you only use the analog side… they are still more precise than the original equipment that was good enough to point out 1/8ths of a tank…

The Ceis can get you to parts of a gallon…

A good FF sensor mounted in a modern location may be worth looking into as well…. Some have been mounted in sub-optimal locations back in the day…

Since running out of fuel is high in the error list… these two make sense to acquire…

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic…

Best regards,

-a-

He is spot on.  As far as a FF sender is concerned, get the EI sender.  FT60 is what we usually recommend and it works very well.  The CIES senders are phenomenal and their service is out of this world.  Personally, I like the EI systems versus any other engine monitor as that is what they do and their graduations on the readings are more precise and easier to read.  Installation is all the same, no change, just makes more sense.  However, if you are still going to an all in one, be sure, no matter what to get the aforementioned FF Sender and the Fuel Probes.  They are the only way to go.  

 

Avionics Repair Station Owner only, not a PP.....that's for you @carusoam LOL

[Mooney in Oz]

5 hours ago, Baker Avionics said:

Personally, I like the EI systems versus any other engine monitor as that is what they do and their graduations on the readings are more precise and easier to read.  Installation is all the same, no change, just makes more sense.  However, if you are still going to an all in one, be sure, no matter what to get the aforementioned FF Sender and the Fuel Probes.  They are the only way to go.

During Mooney install, do the EI fuel tank floats require similar bending manipulation as the CIES floats do?

[Baker Avionics]

22 hours ago, Mooney in Oz said:

During Mooney install, do the EI fuel tank floats require similar bending manipulation as the CIES floats do?

No, we have installed them with zero modifications.  We send the existing floats in for a template for them and they come out pretty much spot on.