Catalina checkout

[sleeper-319]

Hey all, I'm in LA frequently (WHP) and I've wanted to fly out to AVX for a while, but never got around to it while I was renting, and now I have my own plane. :-)

I know most LA area schools and clubs require a CFI checkout for AVX before they'll let renters take their planes there, so I figure there's some useful tribal knowledge that's worth getting even if I don't strictly need to do it? Is that sound thinking, and if so, anyone recommend a CFI for this? Thanks.

 

 

[thinwing]

probably a good idea....the airport itself is not difficult,its the illusion presented on short final that as you approach the numbers ,you are presented with a clift face.That and its located on top of a 1600 ft mountain right out of sea level.Other airports present the same illusion though..Sedona,telleruride,old st george...all are built on plateaus with steep drop off.Basically,if you fly on the numbers,and concentrate on the approach markers and not the cliff side ,you will be fine

[midlifeflyer]

As I recall from my flight there (with a CFI), although in the middle of the ocean, Catalina is sort of a mountain airport. Airports built on plateaus tend to have significant downdrafts just prior to the threshold so landing technique - a steeper approach than the standard 3 degree path - is important. On the other end, the takeoff, the runway configuration leads to a bit of an optical illusion that you are going to go off the end before getting to flying speed. 
 

I'd take a local CFI with me. But that's me.

[Mooney Dog]

Im over here thinking you where talking about getting a checkout flight in a PBY Catalina. Ha!

 

I would imagine a few of the local schools probably have a CFI they know of that has done this enough for the specialty of the airport. Best of luck finding one! 

[sleeper-319]

55 minutes ago, Mooney Dog said:

Im over here thinking you where talking about getting a checkout flight in a PBY Catalina. Ha!

Would be cool. Gramps was a radioman on PBYs back in WW2. I remember him saying the most essential piece of kit to bring along with you was a fishing pole. Lol.

I talked to the one CFI I know in LA and he only does it in the school's aircraft. I could rent one for the day, but I figure I ought to be able to find a CFI.

[Mooney Dog]

10 minutes ago, sleeper-319 said:

he only does it in the school's aircraft

Im willing to bet thats an insurance thing. 

[sleeper-319]

30 minutes ago, Mooney Dog said:

Im willing to bet thats an insurance thing. 

yeah. it was.

[eman1200]

I don't get it.  you say you own a plane.  you don't need a check out to go anywhere if you fly your own plane.  if you are renting one, they may require it.  when I was in LA a few years ago I rented from van nuys and just grabbed an instructor and said I wanna go to catalina for lunch, can u work the radios and get us thru the local airspace?  it was a much better choice than doing the whole checkout process and then taking a bunch of annoying coworkers up.  great experience.  but if u have your own plane, there's no such thing as a checkout to go to catalina.

[kortopates]

25 minutes ago, eman1200 said:

I don't get it.  you say you own a plane.  you don't need a check out to go anywhere if you fly your own plane.  if you are renting one, they may require it.  when I was in LA a few years ago I rented from van nuys and just grabbed an instructor and said I wanna go to catalina for lunch, can u work the radios and get us thru the local airspace?  it was a much better choice than doing the whole checkout process and then taking a bunch of annoying coworkers up.  great experience.  but if u have your own plane, there's no such thing as a checkout to go to catalina.

I don't get it either why you might think being a plane owner makes you immune from the all the mishaps that a rental pilot can have? The OP never said a checkout was required but knows many clubs Do require a checkout because they are trying to reduce their incident/accident rate and is doing the prudent thing to not become a statistic. The site picture on landing really confuses a lot of pilots into landing long and worse going off the opposite end. My local club probably had the most recent accident their totalling a Bonanza doing just that and yes its was the pilots first time to Catalina.

[kortopates]

5 hours ago, sleeper-319 said:

Hey all, I'm in LA frequently (WHP) and I've wanted to fly out to AVX for a while, but never got around to it while I was renting, and now I have my own plane. :-)

I know most LA area schools and clubs require a CFI checkout for AVX before they'll let renters take their planes there, so I figure there's some useful tribal knowledge that's worth getting even if I don't strictly need to do it? Is that sound thinking, and if so, anyone recommend a CFI for this? Thanks.

If you ever want to fly down to San Diego I'd be able to help you, not close to Whiteman but not far either.

[eman1200]

I don't get it either why you might think being a plane owner makes you immune from the all the mishaps that a rental pilot can have? The OP never said a checkout was required but knows many clubs Do require a checkout because they are trying to reduce their incident/accident rate and is doing the prudent thing to not become a statistic. The site picture on landing really confuses a lot of pilots into landing long and worse going off the opposite end. My local club probably had the most recent accident their totalling a Bonanza doing just that and yes its was the pilots first time to Catalina.

You clearly didn’t read what I wrote. I never said anything about there not being challenges flying to Catalina. I only said one thing…there is no such thing as a required checkout if flying your own plane to Catalina. So I don’t really know what you don’t get about my comment.

[kortopates]

1 minute ago, eman1200 said:

You clearly didn’t read what I wrote. I never said anything about there not being challenges flying to Catalina. I only said one thing…there is no such thing as a required checkout if flying your own plane to Catalina. So I don’t really know what you don’t get about my comment.

The OP already said a Checkout wasn't required, "I figure there's some useful tribal knowledge that's worth getting even if I don't strictly need to do it? Is that sound thinking..." Sorry but your post comes across as chastising him for wanting to get the help of an experienced CFI going there for the first time. You apparently didn't think that was "sound thinking".  

[eman1200]

The OP already said a Checkout wasn't required, "I figure there's some useful tribal knowledge that's worth getting even if I don't strictly need to do it? Is that sound thinking..." Sorry but your post comes across as chastising him for wanting to get the help of an experienced CFI going there for the first time. You apparently didn't think that was "sound thinking".  

Please don’t tell me what I was thinking. Jeezus I didn’t chastise anyone. I’m just going to bail out of this insane conversation now.

[kortopates]

23 minutes ago, eman1200 said:

Please don’t tell me what I was thinking. Jeezus I didn’t chastise anyone. I’m just going to bail out of this insane conversation now.

Very sorry if I misinterpreted the meaning of your post.

[MB65E]

All good. The runway is a little nicer than before. Not much. Lunch is still great. Landing fee went up. Need to climb up to the tower to pay the man. Great hiking right around the airport. 
-Matt

[midlifeflyer]

11 hours ago, eman1200 said:

wanting to get the help of an experienced CFI

I can't resist. The flight I mentioned earlier was a free day (that's my story and I'm sticking to it!) on a business trip. I had made arrangements ahead of time with a flight school  at SMO*. So the trip was not only a "Catalina checkout**," but an introduction to the LAX SFRA. I get to the airport and the weather is miserable, especially for SOCAL. Definitely VFR but chilly and gusty and a bit showery.  I get to the FBO. Time to discuss whether to make the trip at all. Finally, we decided to go for it but with the disclaimer that the most dangerous thing in an airplane is two CFIs flying together.  We had a blast.

(*) The flight was in 2003. Amazingly, the flight school is still in operation and the airplane is still part of their fleet. The CFI I flew with went on to get his ATP and is typed in a few jets.

(**) I think there is sometimes a bad connotation to the word "checkout." Many of us think of it exclusively as a thing we need to do to satisfy a rental operation or insurance company. I needed to do neither in this case. There were no plans for me to rent the airplane a second time while I was there. It was strictly a one-off. And with about 11 years of Colorado mountain experience at the time, I hardly needed instruction on how to approach a airport with an interestingly-configured runway cut out of mountain in a Piper Archer. But I love the local knowledge gleaned on these flights, whether you want to call them "checkouts," "familiarity flights," or something else.  I may even have a record for the number of times I got "checked out" in different parts of the country, sometime as a prelude to a later rental but many of them one-time flights for fun in a new place. The bonus is, whether the airplane was new to me or something I had hundreds of hours in, I always learned something.

Edited September 8, 2021 by midlifeflyer

[steingar]

Grabbing a CFI for one flight seems like really cheap situational awareness around unfamiliar surroundings.  I ever get out that way I might do likewise.  Pretty smart move actually.

[Ron McBride]

Find the accident reports for Catalina. Read them and learn.

I would suggest that a good Cfi go with you as needed.

 

[midlifeflyer]

1 hour ago, Ron McBride said:

Find the accident reports for Catalina. Read them and learn.

 

 

Yeah but there were only 25 of them in the past 11 years and only 10 were fatal.

[thinwing]

13 hours ago, eman1200 said:

Please don’t tell me what I was thinking. Jeezus I didn’t chastise anyone. I’m just going to bail out of this insane conversation now.

good idea eman

[thinwing]

the local rental club CFI is doing the catalina checkout in a 172....a whole difference from the OP s m20J....and he has already recieved the best possible Catalina checkout offer if he is willing to fly to San Diego

[ZuluZulu]

@sleeper-319 Catalina is a great trip!  I've probably landed there at least 20 times.  It's smart to bring a CFI or at least do some thorough homework first.  Some first-timers handle it well (especially if the conditions are the same as the ones they've studied: headwind for RWY 22, no strong gusts, etc.) but I've seen first-timers struggle, including a Cirrus that had to go around three times in gusting conditions favoring RWY 3 before finally getting it on the ground.  And don't forget to set your altimeter!  It's easy to forget when you're talking to SoCal across the channel and they tell you to squawk VFR right as you're starting to manage your approach.

[Minivation]

Heck, if you can afford a plane, then I suppose it wouldn't hurt to grab a CFI to give you a few pointers on the trip to AVX

I've flown into AVX just once, and that was during July when I did a big flying trip from Denver-Telluride-Sedona-Lake Havasu-Catalina-Bakersfield all in one day. One thing that got my attention at AVX was just how steep the runway slope is. Runway 22 is a distinct uphill, and Runway 4 is a noticeable downhill. When I was taxiing out for departure, it almost seemed as if all the other planes were only looking at the windsock and not taking the slope into consideration - one Skyhawk decided to take off uphill with a ~5 knot headwind ... by the time he was off the departure end of the runway (which is where I was, holding short of Rwy 4), I reckon he wasn't more than 30ft off the ground. Of course, no harm there because both ends of the runway drop off down to a cliff, but it certainly struck me as odd.

Given the fact that my experience with AVX was in the context of hitting all the other "plateau" airports that day (namely, TEX and SEZ), I made sure that I briefed the airport elevation well before arrival and set up a game plan on what kinds of "gates" I wanted to pass through during the traffic pattern inbound, with each gate being defined by a specific geographic location, target altitude, airspeed, and configuration (e.g. turning base to a 1.5-mile final for Rwy 22, 1900' MSL, 75kts, full flaps, gear down). For each gate, I'd have an "escape plan" where if my targets weren't achieved, I could initiate a go-around and rejoin safely.

[ilovecornfields]

I flew to Catalina when I was 15 once. I was flying my dad’s Arrow with an instructor and my dad said I could go anywhere except Catalina so guess what I said to the instructor when he asked me where I wanted to go? 

I even bought a bottle of sand labeled “Own your own piece of Catalina beachfront property” to bring home as a souvenir. I had about 100 hours at that time and don’t recall it being a particularly challenging place to land. I was also 10 years away from fully developing my frontal lobe so I see things differently now. 

Good call for seeking our additional training even though nothing requires it (except common sense, good judgement and a desire not to wreck your plane). Seems like a nice way to spend the day flying there and back with a CFI. 

[Niko182]

IMO its a pretty easy strip to land at. Land within the first 1000 feet of the runway and you'll be golden. I'm sure there are some people local to socal that would gladly go with you and help you out also that aren't CFI's.

Edited September 8, 2021 by Niko182