Catalina checkout

[Skates97]

22 hours ago, thinwing said:

probably a good idea....the airport itself is not difficult,its the illusion presented on short final that as you approach the numbers ,you are presented with a clift face.That and its located on top of a 1600 ft mountain right out of sea level.Other airports present the same illusion though..Sedona,telleruride,old st george...all are built on plateaus with steep drop off.Basically,if you fly on the numbers,and concentrate on the approach markers and not the cliff side ,you will be fine

It's not difficult. My first time there in my Mooney was a harder touchdown than I wanted but I didn't adjust for the upslope runway enough. As thinwing said, just fly the numbers. I think where pilots get in trouble is because when you are getting ready to turn base you are 2,600' above the ocean, not a sight picture you are used to. Ignore how far above the ocean you are and pay attention to your altimeter. The same thing that Minivation mentions here:

2 hours ago, Minivation said:

Given the fact that my experience with AVX was in the context of hitting all the other "plateau" airports that day (namely, TEX and SEZ), I made sure that I briefed the airport elevation well before arrival and set up a game plan on what kinds of "gates" I wanted to pass through during the traffic pattern inbound, with each gate being defined by a specific geographic location, target altitude, airspeed, and configuration (e.g. turning base to a 1.5-mile final for Rwy 22, 1900' MSL, 75kts, full flaps, gear down). For each gate, I'd have an "escape plan" where if my targets weren't achieved, I could initiate a go-around and rejoin safely.

The other thing that gets pilots in trouble is some make a habit of dragging it in low and slow which puts you in a bad spot with a downdraft on short final.

[sleeper-319]

Thanks for all the thoughts and wisdom everyone. :-)

[steingar]

If landing AVX isn't that difficult why all the crashes and all the fatals?  

Edited September 9, 2021 by steingar

[N201MKTurbo]

15 minutes ago, steingar said:

If landing AVX isn't that difficult why all the crashes and all the fatals?  

It is like Sedona on steroids. 

I've never landed there. A non-instrument rated friend at the airport asked me to fly his plane to AVX because it was IFR. I pulled up the weather over San Diego and it was OK. When I got there it was below minimums, so we diverted to Long Beach. When the weather went above minimums, it went VFR, so the owner flew. But I got the right seat experience. The runway in and of itself is not challenging, but the sight picture is very unusual! The day we were there, there was no wind to speak of, but it looks like it could be exciting on a windy day.

I think the approach might be a better way to go.

[ilovecornfields]

2 hours ago, steingar said:

If landing AVX isn't that difficult why all the crashes and all the fatals?  

It’s too close to LA so all the weekend warriors go fly there to impress their girlfriends/mistresses and end up making fools of themselves.

[Bolter]

@sleeper-319 When I lived in SoCal (including many years at WHP), I used to go to Catalina often enough that I got the annual membership (unlimited landings, pays off in about 3 or 4 trips)  I do not think it is very hard, aside from all the visual illusions.  Being on a plateau and a slightly convex surface with a false horizon once you land.  This video of a past landing shows it:

https://www.facebook.com/jolie.lucas.1/videos/10214127402958162

Note the distance markers on the right.  When the video ends, there is 2k feet remaining, but the false horizon makes it seem much shorter.  

I support your idea of going with someone who knows landing there, not necessarily a CFI, who can give some guidance.  I think some of the SoCal locals who already replied would do it for the buffalo burger :-)   (I can recommend someone if you PM me)

-dan

[Niko182]

7 minutes ago, Bolter said:

I think some of the SoCal locals who already replied would do it for the buffalo burger :-).

Id gladly go. I'm also at john wayne, so not too far.

[philiplane]

a friend of mine did a Florida to the West Coast trip, it all went great, until the landing at Catalina. He landed long, couldn't stop, and took his Cirrus off the end of the runway a bit. Prop strike, nose gear collapse, all on a place with no services. Needless to say, the insurance company owned the plane at that point.

Catalina Island airport needs the respect it deserves, lest it rise up and smite thee...

[eman1200]

2017

[steingar]

19 hours ago, ilovecornfields said:

It’s too close to LA so all the weekend warriors go fly there to impress their girlfriends/mistresses and end up making fools of themselves.

Weekend warriors go to 3W2 all the time.  It's 300 feet shorter than AVX and occluded on both sides.  Folks don't seem to wipe out there on a routine basis.

[ilovecornfields]

1 hour ago, steingar said:

Weekend warriors go to 3W2 all the time.  It's 300 feet shorter than AVX and occluded on both sides.  Folks don't seem to wipe out there on a routine basis.

I think it’s a little further from LA than Catalina. Different population. 

[cliffy]

If you go be sure to have life jackets on board for everyone! Crap happens when you least expect it and you are out of gliding range of anything land.

Been there in Cessnas to Lears,  Its not all that difficult if you keep your head about you.

[N201MKTurbo]

19 minutes ago, cliffy said:

If you go be sure to have life jackets on board for everyone! Crap happens when you least expect it and you are out of gliding range of anything land.

Been there in Cessnas to Lears,  Its not all that difficult if you keep your head about you.

I’ve never made that trip when I wasn’t within gliding distance of a boat.

[cliffy]

5 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I’ve never made that trip when I wasn’t within gliding distance of a boat.

But how  long can you float in 6 foot seas without a life jacket? Even a smooth day is rough out there in the channel

How about a rough landing and being even slightly injured and trying to swim to a boat? Crap happens in water touch downs Drowning happens quick. 

I've got a Coast Guard Masters License and have been out there many days in all kinds of boats and wouldn't think of entering the water off shore without a Mae West on.

[Skates97]

1 hour ago, cliffy said:

If you go be sure to have life jackets on board for everyone! Crap happens when you least expect it and you are out of gliding range of anything land.

Been there in Cessnas to Lears,  Its not all that difficult if you keep your head about you.

Not just on board, make sure everyone is wearing them. Even if we are just going on a flight-seeing trip along the coast we wear them. They are comfortable, and often times the best place to put down in an emergency along the coast is in the water.

I have to thank @Hyett6420 for his presentation at Mooney Summit a couple years back, he made me a believer. Before I made any more flights along the coast I bought Spinlock Deckvests.

[N201MKTurbo]

1 hour ago, cliffy said:

But how  long can you float in 6 foot seas without a life jacket? Even a smooth day is rough out there in the channel

How about a rough landing and being even slightly injured and trying to swim to a boat? Crap happens in water touch downs Drowning happens quick. 

I've got a Coast Guard Masters License and have been out there many days in all kinds of boats and wouldn't think of entering the water off shore without a Mae West on.

I’m not disagreeing, but someone should tell ATC. The last three times I flew IFR out of Santa Barbara, I filed direct Fillmore, but all three times they vectored me half way to the Channel Islands before they turned me on course.

[steingar]

On 9/10/2021 at 10:08 AM, ilovecornfields said:

I think it’s a little further from LA than Catalina. Different population. 

All pilots. Landing mountain tops is weird.  Not difficult, just weird.  Weird sight picture.  Add some water and it gets weirder.  Make it weird enough it gets hard.  3W2 is shorter and occluded.  89D is even shorter, and occluded on one side. Neither have routine fatals.

I suppose it's possible that California is just full of crap pilots.

[cliffy]

11 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I’m not disagreeing, but someone should tell ATC. The last three times I flew IFR out of Santa Barbara, I filed direct Fillmore, but all three times they vectored me half way to the Channel Islands before they turned me on course.

Ya I too got SBA to Catalina to Seal Beach once in a Cherokee but I won't do that again  I'd declare and emergency if I couldn't negotiate a different route and i was airborne. Too many years of seeing too many things happen.   IIRC a Cirrus was lost just off SMO a couple years ago. 

[N201MKTurbo]

1 minute ago, cliffy said:

Ya I too got SBA to Catalina to Seal Beach once in a Cherokee but I won't do that again  I'd declare and emergency if I couldn't negotiate a different route and i was airborne. Too many years of seeing too many things happen.   IIRC a Cirrus was lost just off SMO a couple years ago. 

Yea, last time I was above the marine in a minute or so, so I just canceled and flew where I wanted to go in the first place. The controllers really don't like you flying VFR at 15,500 over the LA basin. 

[jaylw314]

4 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Yea, last time I was above the marine in a minute or so, so I just canceled and flew where I wanted to go in the first place. The controllers really don't like you flying VFR at 15,500 over the LA basin. 

?? why not?  The Class B only goes up to 10,000' MSL anyway?

On departures from SMO they REALLY seem to send you out over the water sometimes.   I got sent out about 5 miles off the coast on an IFR departure when I reminded them I needed a turn, all I got was a "standby".  When I told them I'd broken out into VMC, they finally gave me a turn.

[ilovecornfields]

2 minutes ago, jaylw314 said:

?? why not?  The Class B only goes up to 10,000' MSL anyway?

I really like the Opposing Bases podcast. It’s two controllers/pilots that explain things well from their point of view. Apparently, you can be above the bravo, but still be a pain in the a$$ if you’re in the path of the arrivals and departures. Their recommendation is to just use flight following so they can kindly ask you to get out of the way if you’re causing problems instead if vectoring everyone around you. 

[N201MKTurbo]

1 hour ago, jaylw314 said:

?? why not?  The Class B only goes up to 10,000' MSL anyway?

On departures from SMO they REALLY seem to send you out over the water sometimes.   I got sent out about 5 miles off the coast on an IFR departure when I reminded them I needed a turn, all I got was a "standby".  When I told them I'd broken out into VMC, they finally gave me a turn.

Because there is nowhere where 15500 isn't in some airport's arrival and departure corridor. They let me know on flight following repeatedly that I was in their corridor. They called out a lot of airliners.

Edited February 1, 2022 by N201MKTurbo

[cliffy]

3 hours ago, ilovecornfields said:

Their recommendation is to just use flight following so they can kindly ask you to get out of the way if you’re causing problems instead if vectoring everyone around you. 

So why would I want to suck hind tit and be the only one vectored "out of the way"? Sorry  Its my airspace also.   VFR at 10,500 is still VFR In reality no need to even talk to anyone.  I fly VFR over LAS all the time. "Most" of the time I talk to them. 

Most of you don't even remember the start of the TCAs and how they were never to be expanded.

Most also don't remember that the only way they got TSA was to promise that the "agents" would never unionize or have badges (indicating law enforcement). That was the only way they got it passed in Congress. What have we got now?  Now they work have in hand with DEA. (But also with a 95% failure rate in detecting weapons passage through the gates, Look it up if you don't believe me)

[kortopates]

1 hour ago, cliffy said:

So why would I want to suck hind tit and be the only one vectored "out of the way"? Sorry  Its my airspace also.   VFR at 10,500 is still VFR In reality no need to even talk to anyone.  I fly VFR over LAS all the time. "Most" of the time I talk to them. 

Most of you don't even remember the start of the TCAs and how they were never to be expanded.

Most also don't remember that the only way they got TSA was to promise that the "agents" would never unionize or have badges (indicating law enforcement). That was the only way they got it passed in Congress. What have we got now?  Now they work have in hand with DEA. (But also with a 95% failure rate in detecting weapons passage through the gates, Look it up if you don't believe me)

Oh, I recall the midair in San diego that led to the TCA in San Diego!

Regardless, We have a lot more traffic today and I believe we're all better off partnering with ATC by working with them to help keep us all safe. If anything is may even help to avoid over expanding our Bravo's & Charlies prematurely. 

[ilovecornfields]

2 hours ago, cliffy said:

So why would I want to suck hind tit and be the only one vectored "out of the way"? Sorry  Its my airspace also.   VFR at 10,500 is still VFR In reality no need to even talk to anyone.  I fly VFR over LAS all the time. "Most" of the time I talk to them. 

Most of you don't even remember the start of the TCAs and how they were never to be expanded.

Most also don't remember that the only way they got TSA was to promise that the "agents" would never unionize or have badges (indicating law enforcement). That was the only way they got it passed in Congress. What have we got now?  Now they work have in hand with DEA. (But also with a 95% failure rate in detecting weapons passage through the gates, Look it up if you don't believe me)

You’re right, of course. It’s your right to fly 500’ over the Bravo, make everyone get out of your way and not talk to anyone. Just like it’s your right to take a long time at the checkout line, fart a bunch when you’re in line, not have your payment method ready and then insist on paying by check. Most people will think you’re obnoxious and you’ll make everyone’s life a little unpleasant— you might not care.

The overwhelming majority of the time, ATC makes my life easier. I don’t mind returning the favor. I get free traffic advisories and maybe I avoid having the airliners all fly around me. 

But that’s just me. You do you.