Like to upgrade panel with G500txi plus g5 and gfc500

[Philip France 13]

Hello,

I like to further upgrade my panel by adding G500txi and G5 connected to GTN750 and backup GTN650, and to GFC500 autopilot,

I do have today GTN750 with GMA35r and also not installed a GTN650 and 2x G5,

my auto pilot is giving signs of problems with trim light on… so this is the reason i am looking for GFC500,

by installing the G500txi i am also considering to install the engine sensors for monitoring the engine,

i like some feedback to understand if i am going in the correct direction

today panel picture attached,

thanks in advance if you have good experience to share,

philip

[donkaye]

59 minutes ago, Philip France 13 said:

Hello,

I like to further upgrade my panel by adding G500txi and G5 connected to GTN750 and backup GTN650, and to GFC500 autopilot,

I do have today GTN750 with GMA35r and also not installed a GTN650 and 2x G5,

my auto pilot is giving signs of problems with trim light on… so this is the reason i am looking for GFC500,

by installing the G500txi i am also considering to install the engine sensors for monitoring the engine,

i like some feedback to understand if i am going in the correct direction

today panel picture attached,

thanks in advance if you have good experience to share,

philip

 

 

I have everything that you want to install.  You will have the best of the best if you do those upgrades.  Some might say to go the G3X route, but for me, I like the G500 TXi.

[Minivation]

I think this list is good to go. I did have to double-check if the G5 is allowed to be used as a backup to the G500TXi, and yes, it is authorized.

I haven't flown the G500TXi as a pilot, but I have done installation and maintenance work on them as an avionics tech. They are incredibly powerful devices and I am confident they will serve you well. Just make sure you spend the time to get used to the interface because they can get overwhelming!

[Philip France 13]

13 hours ago, donkaye said:

I have everything that you want to install.  You will have the best of the best if you do those upgrades.  Some might say to go the G3X route, but for me, I like the G500 TXi.

Thanks a lot for the feedback,

would you be so nice to share a picture of your panel ?
i will have to discuss with my avionics shop tp design the layout and any benchmark is helpful

Philip

[donkaye]

5 hours ago, Philip France 13 said:

Thanks a lot for the feedback,

would you be so nice to share a picture of your panel ?
i will have to discuss with my avionics shop tp design the layout and any benchmark is helpful

Philip

[PJClark]

Here's my G3X in my M20K Rocket which is the same panel size as yours.  Don's is a Bravo and his panel is 2" or so taller.

G500txi should fit in the same footprint.  A little hard to see but my GMA507 autopilot controller is just left of the GNS430W partially hidden by the yoke.  Works fantastic there.

[PT20J]

I would compare features an installed cost of both the G3X Touch and the G500 Txi. They are both very capable systems. The G500 is an obviously better choice if you have a legacy autopilot. The G3X, G5 and GFC 500 were designed to work together as a system. A nice safety feature is that if the G3X AHRS should fail, the G5 will drive the autopilot. 

Skip

[donkaye]

13 minutes ago, PT20J said:

I would compare features an installed cost of both the G3X Touch and the G500 Txi. They are both very capable systems. The G500 is an obviously better choice if you have a legacy autopilot. The G3X, G5 and GFC 500 were designed to work together as a system. A nice safety feature is that if the G3X AHRS should fail, the G5 will drive the autopilot. 

Skip

Since the GFC 500 works off of the G5, if the AHRS fails on the G500 TXi, the auto pilot also still works.  However, if the G5 fails, you lose the GFC 500 AP.

[Philip France 13]

Thanks a lot what about the engine instruments are they both available on G3X and G500txi ?

Philip

[Philip France 13]

I see on the pictures both of you installed separate engine monitoring JPI900 : Why not using the instruments on the G3X or G500txi ?

Philip

[PJClark]

Garmin EIS (engine instrument system or whatever) is available with either G500 or G3x.  

I suspect Don did a stanalone instrument for the engine for the same reason I did: if you only have one G3X or G500 display you have no way to see "everything" when it comes to the engine parameters  except by scrolling over to the engine page and even then I think you still have to touch a different tab to see the non-primary stuff.

I like my EDM900 because everything is always there all the time with no twisting or touching to see what I want to be able to see a a glance.

Now--at the time I did my panel in 2019 a two-display G3X with a 10 " and a 7" did not allow the 7" to be the backup for the 10"...meaning even if I added a second display I still needed a G5 backup.  For me to add EIS AND a 7" display was $2-3K more than the EDM900, installed. IF the EIS + 7" would have been a wash with the EDM900, by deleting the G5 requirement, I'd have done the 2 G3x with EIS.

I THINK you can now do that with G3x but don't quote me (ie, no G5 required).  Don may know if two G500s can be backup to each other.

one other thing: if the whole point of your upgrade is the GFC500 (my KFC200 was working great but I wanted the advanced features in the G500), the G3x might be better for you. In my installation the G3X is the primary instrument and the primary driver of the GFC500. If the G3X fails, the G5 still drives the autopilot and if I'm flying an approach with GTN750 nav source, the airplane still continues to fly the approach. A little more redundancy in the event you're going GFC500...

 

[PT20J]

I was originally going to put in an EDM 900 because I never really liked the engine monitor in the G1000. But I flew a G3X with EIS and liked it. It also made for a cleaner panel and cost less than a separate engine monitor. I’m not that concerned about failures because even with no engine instruments there are safe ways to operate my NA engine that will get me to an airport. My major objective in upgrading was to improve reliability and the more stuff you have in the panel, the greater likelihood that something will fail. Kind of like how twins have twice the probability of an engine failure compared to singles. 
Skip

[ArtVandelay]

I assume if you already have a JPI, going Garmin means removing JPI and it’s probes and reinstalling, that’s probably 10 AMUs for no additional functionality.

[PJClark]

probably not $10 AMUs if you put it on the single 10" display. EIS is about $3500 for a 6 cyl with all probes plus install.  If you don't want a standalone display it's a great value.

[donkaye]

The Garmin EIS was not available when I did my upgrade, however, I wouldn't have bought it if it had been available.  The MVP-50 provides so much more data with its multiple pages, and for me one of the most important data pieces is the extra register that provides for fuel used on each trip, which resets on shutdown, in addition to the register that keeps track of fuel used since fuel addition. This allows me to travel to a student and, without any mental computations, know exactly how much fuel it took to get there.  And there are so many other important setting, like keeping track of the hottest EGT and CHT without having to look at all of them for that determination, and the ability to show an engine diagram with the EGT and CHT beside each cylinder for easy monitoring, and, of course, the ability to lean the engine either LOP and ROP among so many other capabilities.  Actually, another big thing is the ability to read the display with large enough numbers so it isn't necessary to bring along a magnifying glass to read them like the JPI 900 or 930.

[Ragsf15e]

7 hours ago, PT20J said:

I was originally going to put in an EDM 900 because I never really liked the engine monitor in the G1000. But I flew a G3X with EIS and liked it. It also made for a cleaner panel and cost less than a separate engine monitor. I’m not that concerned about failures because even with no engine instruments there are safe ways to operate my NA engine that will get me to an airport. My major objective in upgrading was to improve reliability and the more stuff you have in the panel, the greater likelihood that something will fail. Kind of like how twins have twice the probability of an engine failure compared to singles. 
Skip

I definitely agree.  Nice to have one manufacturer and all your information working together.  This is only an example from my current G5s and jpi930, but I have a temp probe that feeds the jpi.  It provides that info to my 430w.  However, if I want tas and winds on my G5s, I will need to install another temp probe.  Stick with Garmin and all data is available to all the components.

[MIm20c]

For failure modes I’d go with the 275 vs g5 if you want a g3x.  This allows a bypass to the gad29b in case that unit fails. 
 

The txi w/ eis is going to be substantially more expensive than the g3x w/ eis.  
 

Spend some serious time planning out the panel.  Flush mounting, layouts, bevels, powder coating, stenciling, and flow. Keep in mind what is covered by the yoke, move  things up when you remove the old engine instruments, group switches by function, and remove old radios not needed in the right stack. 

[PT20J]

Garmin packed a lot of capability into the G3X EIS. And, uncharacteristically for Garmin, it supports a wide variety of sensors. I’m keeping my EDM 700 EGT and CHT probes and my Floscan fuel flow transducer. 

Skip

[Philip France 13]

Hello,

Thanks a lot : after reviewing the pictures and your comments i will most likely keep GTN750 + Gma35c remorte audio panel +GNC255 as 2nd radio (for vertical space in the central panel) + TRIG TT31 Mode S Transponder ( it works well and a new remote GTX345 would add to the cost for little change- I do have traffic and weather on my IPAD with ADL190). I need to check if ADF is still mandatory, same question on 2nd altimeter ? What about DME is it still useful ?

Then looks like the G3X with EIS and G5, plus GFC500 should do the job,

Is there a drawback going to G3X (looks to me it newer compared to G500txi)

in summary i would have : GTN750 +GMA35c +GNC255 +TT31 plus install GFC500 +G3X/EIS +G5

What do you thing is it correct?

Thanks

Philip

 

[Philip France 13]

Thanks for your help : this is a serious decision and big investment all feedback is welcome

[donkaye]

11 minutes ago, Philip France 13 said:

Is there a drawback going to G3X (looks to me it newer compared to G500txi

The G500 TXi is newer.

[PT20J]

Although I believe they have the same screen resolution, some have said that when viewed side by side the TXi is brighter. 

Skip

 

[carusoam]

Check on the following second hand info….   

1) The G3X has a limited amount of non-G interfaces it can handle, compared to the G500txi….

2) The G EIS, captures a lot more than just engine data… it does a great job of recording flight data and doing some basic math with that…

3) The EI MVP is a great piece of technology, with a great company behind it…. And has a resident tech guy around here… find Oregon…

4) The JPI is an old standard!  Can’t go wrong with old and standard….   

 

Looks like a super modern Mooney!

Go MS!

Best regards,

-a-

[PJClark]

1) If your plan is to install the GFC500 anyway I doubt you care much about the non-Garmin interfaces...sounds like you're already planning to go full-Garmin for the whole panel anyway.  I'm not advocating for either the G3X or the G500Txi--but if you're going GFC500, with the G3X you have TWO attitude systems that can both drive the GFC500 (G3X and G5 or 275).  The G3X is going to be at least $5000 cheaper

2) The G3X records each flight in a Flight Log whether EIS is configured or not. From the Pilot's Handbook:

 

[Philip France 13]

This is getting clear to me : I will ask for a quote to my avionic shop and keep you informed

Thanks a lot

Philip