Musings on the Acclaim Ultra

[Schllc]

10 minutes ago, philiplane said:

You must have flown the world's slowest SR22 then, since even the FIKI n/a models will turn in 174+ KTAS on 17 gph at 9000 feet. The clean wing models will top out around 180 at 7000 feet. For reference, 1000 + hrs in all models of SR22, 22T, 22TN, and M20M through Acclaim. Have not flown a V yet.

Kinda what I said.  Not at the same fuel flows. 
The mooney’s are faster, that’s just a fact, and close is relative. 
I don’t have anywhere near that time in cirrus’s. But my time is enough for a valid sample. 
I don’t really have anything bad to say about the cirrus. I don’t like the way they look, I don’t like the side stick, and I found them nosier, but that’s mostly preference.

I think your comment was to which was faster, no?

[philiplane]

18 minutes ago, Schllc said:

Kinda what I said.  Not at the same fuel flows. 
The mooney’s are faster, that’s just a fact, and close is relative. 
I don’t have anywhere near that time in cirrus’s. But my time is enough for a valid sample. 
I don’t really have anything bad to say about the cirrus. I don’t like the way they look, I don’t like the side stick, and I found them nosier, but that’s mostly preference.

I think your comment was to which was faster, no?

yes, the SR22T series will do over 200 KTAS above FL180. Up to 215 KTAS at FL250, on 17-18 GPH. Not a whole lot slower than the Acclaim, but with a bigger cabin and often a higher useful load. That's the main reason the M20V was unable to generate enough sales to keep the lights on at Mooney. 15 knots faster over 800 miles is all of 15 minutes. Even if you could reach the 242 KTAS M20V claim, it's still only 24 minutes, in a much smaller cabin, with less useful load. Maybe Mooney should try the TEO-540 FADEC Lycoming engine along with a 3800 GW in the M20V body.  That would be interesting.

When I was more involved in new aircraft sales, I got to observe buyers evaluating similar planes first hand. One of the deal breakers was easy entry to the cabin. The Cirrus won easily over the Mooney, even after the V model came out with two doors, and bigger ones yet. The older Mooney door simply isn't big enough for easy entrance. Especially of the older pilots who are buying new planes. The V model was a huge improvement. Heck, I love the Bravo, but I hate getting in and out of the dang thing.

The Cirrus is even easier for back seat passengers, they just step in and sit down. It's about the same with my Aztec. They love it. When I take people in the Mooney, it's a feat to get them in the back seat. So the Mooney better be faster, to offset the lack of space while seated.

Edited August 28, 2021 by philiplane

[Schllc]

40 minutes ago, philiplane said:

yes, the SR22T series will do over 200 KTAS above FL180. Up to 215 KTAS at FL250, on 17-18 GPH. Not a whole lot slower than the Acclaim, but with a bigger cabin and often a higher useful load. That's the main reason the M20V was unable to generate enough sales to keep the lights on at Mooney. 15 knots faster over 800 miles is all of 15 minutes. Even if you could reach the 242 KTAS M20V claim, it's still only 24 minutes, in a much smaller cabin, with less useful load. Maybe Mooney should try the TEO-540 FADEC Lycoming engine along with a 3800 GW in the M20V body.  That would be interesting.

When I was more involved in new aircraft sales, I got to observe buyers evaluating similar planes first hand. One of the deal breakers was easy entry to the cabin. The Cirrus won easily over the Mooney, even after the V model came out with two doors, and bigger ones yet. The older Mooney door simply isn't big enough for easy entrance. Especially of the older pilots who are buying new planes. The V model was a huge improvement. Heck, I love the Bravo, but I hate getting in and out of the dang thing.

The Cirrus is even easier for back seat passengers, they just step in and sit down. It's about the same with my Aztec. They love it. When I take people in the Mooney, it's a feat to get them in the back seat. So the Mooney better be faster, to offset the lack of space while seated.

I agree. The Mooney is faster. 

[exM20K]

18 hours ago, philiplane said:

I think the Acclaim has cowl inlets that are too large, and it probably slows the plane a bit

Maybe…. But they do permit 120KIAS climbs to the high teens with everything comfortably cool (below 375) even on the hottest days.  I’m pretty sure the S22T’s aren’t good for much more than 700 FPM, at least basis hat I see on flightaware.  Getting up out of the heat, clouds, ice, and bumps and into cool, clear air in just over half the time is big for me.

-Dan 

[mike_elliott]

As in most designs, there is a compromise that has to be made. It is my understanding smaller cowl inlets were considered, but as Dan suggests, would impact cooling in the high teens/FL's and the 120KIAS Climbs to the FL that warranted the large openings. Kevin Hawley can opine further, I think he lurks here on occasion. Those with Ovations will note the higher #5 CHTs they have on climb and the smaller openings.

 

[ArtVandelay]

As in most designs, there is a compromise that has to be made. It is my understanding smaller cowl inlets were considered, but as Dan suggests, would impact cooling in the high teens/FL's and the 120KIAS Climbs to the FL that warranted the large openings. Kevin Hawley can opine further, I think he lurks here on occasion. Those with Ovations will note the higher #5 CHTs they have on climb and the smaller openings.
 

But if you look at it, the bottom half is blocked anyway so I don’t see how making them similar to Ovations would make much difference. They may need to add a small inlet to pass air through oil cooler/heat exchanger.

[Schllc]

Cooling may be an issue if your are running at 30.5”, max rpm and at altitude.
If I recall correctly, this or 31.5 is max mp for cruise, but who runs at those settings anyway?  
Does anyone actually run their engine at max power in cruise?

The most I would run in cruise would be 27.5”, and I have never had temperature issues at any altitude, rop or lop, in any of the acclaims I’ve flown, at these power settings. 
they have all been a little different in the climb with regard to temp management, but none have been hard to keep under 380, either by leveling/reducing rate to stop the trend, then continuing the climb. My current one seldom breaks 350 in the climb no matter how slow or fast I’m climbing. 
I would hope the sizing of the inlets involved quite a bit of testing under all conditions to find the optimum sizing.