Technology Today vs the 1960 Mooney Design

[Hank]

7 hours ago, aviatoreb said:

I’m a type B emotional enginerd.

And here I thought the Pi-baby was a math geek . . . .    I  is an enginere! BSME, MSE.   

[aviatoreb]

2 hours ago, Hank said:

And here I thought the Pi-baby was a math geek . . . .    I  is an enginere! BSME, MSE.   

Well maybe I am a type b emotional enginerd but a type a math geek?  Can I be both?

[AerostarDriver]

Going back a few pages I would kill for a diesel powered Mooney. Horsepower is a terrible way to rate aircraft engines torque is much better and its why, for example, the diesel archer performs pretty much the same as its O-360 stable mate with a nearly 30hp reduction in "power". 

[cliffy]

Something will come along?

We're still using Geek technology 2750 years later  :-)

If you want energy density you go nuclear  fusion

That's a long way away though. 

Until then the world runs on dyno juice because wind turbines FREEZE tight in bad storms (Texas this week) and solar panels can't see through snow and dark. 

And come 50 years from now I'll still be emptying my inbox from all these postings today :_)

[Blue on Top]

7 hours ago, AerostarDriver said:

Going back a few pages I would kill for a diesel powered Mooney. Horsepower is a terrible way to rate aircraft engines torque is much better and its why, for example, the diesel archer performs pretty much the same as its O-360 stable mate with a nearly 30hp reduction in "power". 

Diesel engines are also turbocharged, so they maintain rated horsepower to a higher altitude.  Climb is all excess Hp/weight.

[Blue on Top]

If all y'all get Kitplanes (or more appropriately Kitplanes Weekly via email), there is an article about another Al Mooney airplane, the LASA-60.  Seems a gentleman found one of them and put a Chevy 383 stroker engine in it.  He's now looking to part out the airplane and engine.  I think the article says he has a potential buyer for the engine but is looking for an airframe buyer.

I have a picture of an LASA=60 with the original Mooney logo on the tail (and the tail of a Mooney aircraft backed up to it.  

https://www.kitplanes.com/powering-a-mystery/

PS.  All called this his M-22, his 22nd design.

Edited February 16, 2021 by Blue on Top
Added picture, added link and PS.

[PT20J]

9 hours ago, AerostarDriver said:

Horsepower is a terrible way to rate aircraft engines torque is much better

Why?

An electric motor can produce max torque at zero rpm - but no work is done. So to be meaningful for propulsion an rpm would have to be specified. But then that would be piwer.

Skip

[Jerry 5TJ]

23 hours ago, aviatoreb said:

Otherwise, in 50 years we can all race camels to the hamburger joint.  Now I have to decide - do I want a one hump or a two hump camel?

And on DromedarySpace we will endlessly extol the virtues of one hump and denigrate the fools who ride two-humpers.

[carusoam]

5 hours ago, Blue on Top said:

If all y'all get Kitplanes (or more appropriately Kitplanes Weekly via email), there is an article about another Al Mooney airplane, the LASA-60.  Seems a gentleman found one of them and put a Chevy 383 stroker engine in it.  He's now looking to part out the airplane and engine.  I think the article says he has a potential buyer for the engine but is looking for an airframe buyer.

I have a picture of an LASA=60 with the original Mooney logo on the tail (and the tail of a Mooney aircraft backed up to it.  

https://www.kitplanes.com/powering-a-mystery/

PS.  All called this his M-22, his 22nd design.

How many planes did Al call the M22?

Briefly,

The twin was called an M22...

The Mustang was an M22...

The Lasa seems to have acquired the appellation as well...

 

Hmmmm.... interesting...

Best regards,

-a-

[Blue on Top]

Just now, carusoam said:

How many planes did Al call the M22?

-a-

One.  Al (and Art) left Mooney the day the M20A received the PC (production certificate ... on the wood wing).  Seems the financiers were talking one night about how "cheap" Engineering was.  Al took offense to the words.  A couple years later, Al was asked to return to metalize the M20, but he refused.  The LASA-60 above came out in 1959.   Al wasn't at Mooney-Kerrville very long.  The M-18 (and M-19) were designed and first produced in Wichita ... and the M20 preliminary design was also done in Wichita.  There is a great Mooney design philosophy article over in an MS "Mooney Ads" thread.  If Mooney International were smart, they would read and understand those words.

[Raptor05121]

On 2/12/2021 at 6:07 PM, Blue on Top said:

... and the diesel program failed miserably.

Define "failed"

[Hank]

25 minutes ago, Raptor05121 said:

Define "failed"

I would say, "didn't sell near target numbers" or maybe even "didn't meet performance expectations."

[Blue on Top]

21 hours ago, Raptor05121 said:

Define "failed"

1) Engine weight 100 lbs. over advertised.

2) Cooling issues never fully resolved.

3) Engine TBR (no overhaul) is short.

5) Gear box TBR (no overhaul) is half of short.

6) Little to no help from Technify (including no interface drawings or models). 

7) No help from Continental.

8) Base engine/FADEC is the only certificated portion - no accessories: alternator, radiators (2), oils cooler, thermostats, etc.

9) Only one propeller was approved as it has to be low inertia (light) but strong enough to take the power pulses. 

With that said, it ran flawlessly for 175 flight test hours.  Thrust was never validated.

[PT20J]

I've been studying internal combustion engine technology lately. I ran across this quote from Charles Fayette Taylor's Internal Combustion Engine in Theory and Practice (Vol 2, p 361): 

"For engines where fuel supply is not restricted and bore is less than about 6 in., the chief reason for choosing a Diesel engine as an alternative to a spark-ignition engine is fuel economy and fuel cost. Unsupercharged, the Diesel engine is heavier, larger, considerably more expensive, rougher and noisier than a spark-ignition engine of equal power, and it generally requires more sophisticated maintenance. With appropriate supercharging the size and weight of the Diesel can be made reasonably competitive, but the other disadvantages remain."

 

[MikeOH]

4 minutes ago, PT20J said:

I've been studying internal combustion engine technology lately. I ran across this quote from Charles Fayette Taylor's Internal Combustion Engine in Theory and Practice 

 

Epic two volume treatise.  I bought my set 40 years ago.  It's an unbelievably comprehensive work combining theory with its practical application supported by real test data.  It's as applicable today as when it was written in 1960.