Landing Height System for Mooney

[Will.iam]

4 hours ago, Microkit said:

Thank you for the feedback, Will.  

One note to keep in mind to all; whenever the airplane comes out of annual or any wiring/panel related maintenance; make sure you test the Gear Warning System again, the best test is to do a low-approach with the gear up, then perform a go-around, the unit announces “Check Landing Gear” every 4 seconds until a positive rate of climb is registered, or the gear is extended.    

We did get a report from a pilot who handed over his airplane for a GPS/EFIS upgrade, the shop temporarily removed part of the panel along with some wiring to assist with their installation and when they put it back together, they ended up connecting the GWS wire to a permanent +VE source; unaware of its functionality or why it was there in the first place; this effectively made the LHS unit sees the gear as always down.  

He only found out about it when he wanted to demonstrate the GWS feature to another pilot, so we asked him to troubleshoot the location of the GWS wire after he told us the airplane just got a huge panel upgrade.   Apparently; system failures and issues after maintenance is a hot topic at the moment.  

It is a good idea to have an “After Maintenance checklist” with first flight to be around the pattern and check all critical systems such as the Gear Warning System, autopilots and such.  

Funny you should say that as my first test flight with the new system i came in to do a low approach and test the LHS and the first thing i heard was 100ft i thought humm they didn’t get the gear switch connected. Then i lowered the gear to come in and land and the LGS started saying check gear over and over until i landed. It was an easy fix to just go into the software via wifi and change the switch logic to up instead of down and the next flight it worked as published. They got the height dialed in right too. I need to take screen shots of the configuration pages just in case they are ever erased or factory reset. 

[katzhome]

Just ordered one of these with the rest of the avionics work I have being done on N43CA.  Looking forward to the additional situational awareness!

[Will.iam]

Another added benefit is landing to the north our field has a 400ft grass overrun that while I could land on it the undue roughness and transition to the concrete runway, I’d rather not subject to my gear, so before having the LHS, I would come in about my estimate 3 to 5 feet above the grass as I wasn’t quite sure how close I was. Now with the landing height calling out 1ft I can reliably get much closer to the ground which once I past the threshold of the end of the runway chop the power and only have to loose 1 ft of altitude. This gets me on the ground way sooner giving me more rollout distance and I use less brake power to slow to taxi speed. 

[Jetpilot86]

Just took my first flight with mine today. Dropping in from 1 foot on new donuts still produces a few bounces. 

[pkofman]

4 hours ago, Jetpilot86 said:

Just took my first flight with mine today. Dropping in from 1 foot on new donuts still produces a few bounces. 

my experience in the bravo final over the numbers at 75. at  2 or  1 ft  call out hold it off,  be patient, and never force it  .... it will land and be perfect .. just check the calibration height is correct ,, (it's in the manual and easy to check )

[Jetpilot86]

4 hours ago, pkofman said:

my experience in the bravo final over the numbers at 75. at  2 or  1 ft  call out hold it off,  be patient, and never force it  .... it will land and be perfect .. just check the calibration height is correct ,, (it's in the manual and easy to check )

Ya, I seem to get to a foot and it ends up dropping in from there. With the old donuts it would bounce once, the new ones twice. I just keep the nose up and wait. 

[Will.iam]

11 hours ago, Jetpilot86 said:

Ya, I seem to get to a foot and it ends up dropping in from there. With the old donuts it would bounce once, the new ones twice. I just keep the nose up and wait. 

Actually i don’t think my nose drops at all or very little. It feels like the plane rotates at about the engine section point and the part behind the engine lowers down as the speed bleeds off to the runway and then i relax the backpressure on the yoke and the nose comes down after that  

[exM20K]

@Jetpilot86 have you confirmed that your LHS is correctly 0’d? On my TN, the sensor is mounted inboard of the step, and it is 18” off the ground there. 
 

“1 foot, 1 foot, 1 foot” with a stall warning, idle power, full nose up trim rolled in, and almost full-back stick usually leads to greasers, short rollouts, and further inflation of my considerable ego. Two out of three ain’t bad.

Ive never measured it, but is seems to me that bleeding off energy holding the plane, then the nose, off is as or more effective than jumping on the brakes > 50 KIAS. Bounces, on the other hand, are a splendid way to consum8ng landing distance.

-dan

[Jetpilot86]

2 hours ago, exM20K said:

@Jetpilot86 have you confirmed that your LHS is correctly 0’d? On my TN, the sensor is mounted inboard of the step, and it is 18” off the ground there. 
 

“1 foot, 1 foot, 1 foot” with a stall warning, idle power, full nose up trim rolled in, and almost full-back stick usually leads to greasers, short rollouts, and further inflation of my considerable ego. Two out of three ain’t bad.

Ive never measured it, but is seems to me that bleeding off energy holding the plane, then the nose, off is as or more effective than jumping on the brakes > 50 KIAS. Bounces, on the other hand, are a splendid way to consum8ng landing distance.

-dan

Thanks for the info  

I’ll have to dig into it more next time at the plane. I didn’t get to play much on the ferry flight as I was running late. 

[Microkit]

 

[Ed de C.]

I'm happy to lend my voice to this thread extolling to virtues of this system.  I ordered it in February a couple of months ago, received it quickly and presented it to my shop that had no prior experience with it (LHS system with gear warning option).  The avionics-skilled A/P elected to wire it to the AUX circuit of the G1000's audio panel.  We tested the audio messages from the LHS system against streaming ATIS to make sure it would not mute out (which it did not).  He also wired the power to an unused breaker labeled "Radar Altimeter".  We thought "close enough". The installation was relatively painless, given we had the interior out for CIES gages anyway.  We mounted the laser in the rear access panel inside the left main gear. 

As you folks who have this already know, the big win here is the aural altitude callouts during the last 15 seconds of flying.  I've flown with it for 15 hours so have not yet really focused on matching up my flair with a specific altitude callout.  But what's immediately clear is I no longer bounce the plane on due to misjudged height.  I'm rotating when I hear "five" and have arrested my descent when I hear "two".  Now, 100% of the landings are at least good, whereas before, 50% were at least good. If you are coming down too fast or in gusty winds, the callouts tell you where you are relative to the pavement.  Your hand on the yoke does the rest.  

My field (KPTK) is at 980 feet msl and so immediately upon touch down I get a "1,000" callout.  The A/P riding along with me got a chuckle out of that.  I'll be disabling the GPS altitude callout feature soon.  

Well done Microkit!

Ed

[Jetpilot86]

Don’t forget to get the “experimental” gear warning turned on. Mine is supposed to bark at me at 250’ AGL if they aren’t already down. Probably need to verify that one day. Preferably before it might be needed. 

[aviatoreb]

23 hours ago, Jetpilot86 said:

Don’t forget to get the “experimental” gear warning turned on. Mine is supposed to bark at me at 250’ AGL if they aren’t already down. Probably need to verify that one day. Preferably before it might be needed. 

Huh!  I never heard of that feature?  I want to do that - I have the warning system - how do I turn it on?

[Jetpilot86]

29 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

Huh!  I never heard of that feature?  I want to do that - I have the warning system - how do I turn it on?

I think I heard it here actually. I do know it’s something the installer would set up, or maybe they can tell you/ look at the installation manual to set up. 

[dkkim73]

@aviatoreb You will, of course, need the gear wiring in place. The warning per se is, IIRC, a setting in the system which is easily accessed via WiFi in the first few minutes after power-up. 

The documentation is in the installation and operation manual, on the website if you don't already have it. 

Of course, be careful changing things and verifying it does what you think before relying on it (e.g. I checked the "gear still up" warning with a safety pilot and brief during transition training). 

It's a pretty nice, friendly, user-tweakable product. I'm really happy I added it. 

D

[Microkit]

13 hours ago, aviatoreb said:

Huh!  I never heard of that feature?  I want to do that - I have the warning system - how do I turn it on?

 

The 200-C model includes an extra wire for the Gear Warning System.  It is basically an opto-isolated voltage sense circuit,  for airplane that use a single down & locked light, our wire can connect to that, for others, the wire can connect to the gear lever itself.   Previous series (100-B model) does not have that feature, there is a low-cost upgrade path for those with 100-B wanting to upgrade it to 200-C, the Upgrade offer is online.  

We do recommend checking the Gear Warning System in flight, like a low-approach with gear up, down to 150 ft AGL, no need to go lower.  

It is also highly recommended you re-check the Gear Warning System after each annual or after any maintenance/upgrade work that included wiring or back-of-the-panel work jus to make sure the new work did not affect the Gear Warning System as its a very critical function which you want it to work.

 

[M20F-1968]

1 hour ago, Microkit said:

 

The 200-C model includes an extra wire for the Gear Warning System.  It is basically an opto-isolated voltage sense circuit,  for airplane that use a single down & locked light, our wire can connect to that, for others, the wire can connect to the gear lever itself.   Previous series (100-B model) does not have that feature, there is a low-cost upgrade path for those with 100-B wanting to upgrade it to 200-C, the Upgrade offer is online.  

We do recommend checking the Gear Warning System in flight, like a low-approach with gear up, down to 150 ft AGL, no need to go lower.  

It is also highly recommended you re-check the Gear Warning System after each annual or after any maintenance/upgrade work that included wiring or back-of-the-panel work jus to make sure the new work did not affect the Gear Warning System as its a very critical function which you want it to work.

 

I am not sure whether I have the 220-C or 100-B system.  Mine is from about 3 years ago, starts callouts at 200 feet, has the callout to Check Gear, but it cannot recognize whether the gear is up or down.  I also have the P2 Gear warning system in the plane which was previously installed.  Would you recommend that I upgrade the HLS to recognize what position the gear is in, or simply rely on the P2 for this function?

John  Breda

[Jetpilot86]

7 minutes ago, M20F-1968 said:

I am not sure whether I have the 220-C or 100-B system.  Mine is from about 3 years ago, starts callouts at 200 feet, has the callout to Check Gear, but it cannot recognize whether the gear is up or down.  I also have the P2 Gear warning system in the plane which was previously installed.  Would you recommend that I upgrade the HLS to recognize what position the gear is in, or simply rely on the P2 for this function?

John  Breda

As long as you listen to your FO, reminding you to put the gear down at 200 feet, you should be fine. In a way that is a little better system since it reminds you every time, however, it doesn’t alert you if you forget.

[dkkim73]

17 minutes ago, Jetpilot86 said:

In a way that is a little better system since it reminds you every time, however, it doesn’t alert you if you forget.

I believe, from a general human factors standpoint, people tend to tune out routine stimuli, particularly automated. OTOH if you are expecting height callouts and it tells you instead "checking landing gear", that would stick out more. At the very least, it's true for me. 

The FO (or involved personnel on the ground, not just calling "check gear down" routinely) could challenge you if you aren't verifying the gear or they don't see it. An automated system not connected to the indicator would however be more like an audio checklist. 

D

[Microkit]

56 minutes ago, M20F-1968 said:

I am not sure whether I have the 220-C or 100-B system.  Mine is from about 3 years ago, starts callouts at 200 feet, has the callout to Check Gear, but it cannot recognize whether the gear is up or down.  I also have the P2 Gear warning system in the plane which was previously installed.  Would you recommend that I upgrade the HLS to recognize what position the gear is in, or simply rely on the P2 for this function?

John  Breda

 

John, you do have the 100-B (since Nov 2020).  Upgrading requires the unit back (though; one day turn around), and the 4-pin connector to be changed to a 5-pin connector, a new airplane-side 5-pin connector will be sent along with the upgraded unit, at least one more wire will need to be pulled to the location of the unit and to be connected to your down and locked light.  

Adding to what dkkim73 said, we intentionally removed the "gear reminder only @ 200 ft" in the 200-C model so it's not tuned out, the Check Landing Gear message will be repeated every 4 seconds, without any height call out until either a positive rate of climb is registered or the gear is down.   

Maybe you can upgrade the unit 10 days or so before your annual or extended period of downtime.   If you fully satisfied with the P2 function to get your attnedeton during high-load or fully distracted scenarios, I am guessing no need to upgrade.  

 

[aviatoreb]

8 hours ago, M20F-1968 said:

I am not sure whether I have the 220-C or 100-B system.  Mine is from about 3 years ago, starts callouts at 200 feet, has the callout to Check Gear, but it cannot recognize whether the gear is up or down.  I also have the P2 Gear warning system in the plane which was previously installed.  Would you recommend that I upgrade the HLS to recognize what position the gear is in, or simply rely on the P2 for this function?

John  Breda

I think I have the same exact setup including the P2 audio gear warning system and an earlier micro kit not set up for gear warnings.

[Jetpilot86]

10 hours ago, dkkim73 said:

I believe, from a general human factors standpoint, people tend to tune out routine stimuli, particularly automated. OTOH if you are expecting height callouts and it tells you instead "checking landing gear", that would stick out more. At the very least, it's true for me. 

The FO (or involved personnel on the ground, not just calling "check gear down" routinely) could challenge you if you aren't verifying the gear or they don't see it. An automated system not connected to the indicator would however be more like an audio checklist. 

D

Could be my airline pilot background at play here as it wouldn’t bother me. 

[dkkim73]

22 minutes ago, Jetpilot86 said:

Could be my airline pilot background at play here as it wouldn’t bother me. 

You mean you're spoiled by an FO who calls out gear checks and gets you coffee? *Just kidding!* 

My comments from a human factors standpoint are very general. There are clearly a lot of other things, including cultural, procedural and environmental controls, that play a huge role. And the level of training and habit you have is beyond what I am accustomed to in my own flying. I try to take some of my prior military and 141-trained instructor exposure to inform my own personal flying, but that's secondary. I can feel the protective effects of the Law of Primacy in my own experience, and the level of conditioning that professional stick actuators get is beyond that for sure. 

I do think we tend to "fall to the level of our training" (or I might say experience and currency) so it's worth thinking about what is helpful to the GA community more broadly, average and median. 

PP thoughts only, not an airline pilot... (I've been waiting to say that; hat tip Signore Caruso)

[Jetpilot86]

Agreed. As I was “out” of GA for nearly 30 years doing, and still doing the “pro” gig, it’s been easier to approach GA from the Pro side this round, at least to start. There are pluses and minuses to both, but mostly just differences. 
 

For all the stuff we’ll do in our jets, there is lots we won’t even think about doing, that y’all do without having to think about it.  Among other things, punching a line of weather. Did that mostly in the clear in East Texas last month. Found the part that was only in the 20’s with good spacing between the cells and got through on top, between them at 16000. Center was reporting some other small plane running the same gap at 6000’. Gave me flashbacks or nightmares of my 135 days. 
 

I will say, the ForeFlight and ADS-B IN are game changers especially when you don’t have wx radar like on the big jet. So much more information at your fingertips than in 1995. 

[donkaye]

The LHS System is one of the best things I have in my airplane.  I upgraded to the latest version, but did not connect the other 2 wires.  It made for an easy transition. Maybe sometime I will connect the wires, however I liked the way the system worked originally.  From a practical point of view I want to hear the "check gear down" annunciation all the time.  The issue with it announcing in precipitation I have covered with a switch to disable the unit in precipitation.