Installing Surefly in a Rocket.

[Austintatious]

I am going to install a surefly in both of the Rockets. 

I took video of a Cold start on Bendix mags and will video and report on any changes after the install.

For now, I have to figure out how to run the power lead from the batteries in the tail to the SIM on top of the engine.  Has anyone done this?  How did you route the wire?  Can I go via the belly pan or do I have to pull the interior?

[ArtVandelay]

I would not go via belly, I would go inside pilot side, probably don’t have to pull interior completely, just seats and lower carpeting in my case, then up under instrument panel and through the firewall.

[Austintatious]

1 minute ago, ArtVandelay said:

I would not go via belly, I would go inside pilot side, probably don’t have to pull interior completely, just seats and lower carpeting in my case, then up under instrument panel and through the firewall.

Good to know, thanks.... How do you like the Surefly?

[ArtVandelay]

Good to know, thanks.... How do you like the Surefly?

I don’t have one yet, I’m waiting for some pilot reports after extended use.
All the other wiring to the tail, at least my plane is routed down the lower left side.
The only wiring in the belly comes from the circuit breaker panels and that’s for the gear and flap motors.

[Browncbr1]

I HIGHLY recommend you DO NOT set the dip switches to advanced mode.   It kills your performance majorly above about 7000ft.  Advancing is ok if you want to climb to 5 or 6 or lower, and then go LOP, but ROP performance is killed starting around 6000 and you can’t climb for jack above 7k. It just gets hot and barely goes up.  It’s really bad and gets worse as you go up.   9-10 is aweful  

You can run the power wire down the left side wall along battery cables. 

 

Again, Go with fixed timing.

Edited August 7, 2020 by Browncbr1

[ArtVandelay]

I HIGHLY recommend you DO NOT set the dip switches to advanced mode.   It kills your performance majorly above about 7000ft.  Advancing is ok if you want to climb to 5 or 6 or lower, and then go LOP, but ROP performance is killed starting around 6000 and you can’t climb for jack above 7k. It just gets hot and barely goes up.  It’s really bad and gets worse as you go up.   9-10 is aweful  
You can run the power wire down the left side wall along battery cables. 
 
Again, Go with fixed timing.

Just to be clear, is this just for the Rockets? All turbos?

[Austintatious]

2 hours ago, Browncbr1 said:

I HIGHLY recommend you DO NOT set the dip switches to advanced mode.   It kills your performance majorly above about 7000ft.  Advancing is ok if you want to climb to 5 or 6 or lower, and then go LOP, but ROP performance is killed starting around 6000 and you can’t climb for jack above 7k. It just gets hot and barely goes up.  It’s really bad and gets worse as you go up.   9-10 is aweful  

You can run the power wire down the left side wall along battery cables. 

 

Again, Go with fixed timing.

Thanks, the Rocket is turbo so I have to select fixed timing, advance is not allowed.

That sucks you are having issues... are you sure when it was installed the timing was done correctly? If not you may be getting more advance than expected.

[Browncbr1]

11 minutes ago, Austintatious said:

Thanks, the Rocket is turbo so I have to select fixed timing, advance is not allowed.

That sucks you are having issues... are you sure when it was installed the timing was done correctly? If not you may be getting more advance than expected.

Yea, sense you’re turbo, then it will be fixed anyway...   for those with naturally aspirated models, advancing is very problematic at higher altitudes when ROP high rpm climb.   It’s not an install issue..   this is a common and well documented issue.   

[N231BN]

I have two customers/friends that are going back to fixed timing in their NA birds. One is having temp issues and the other, well we're still trying to figure that one out. Surefly's timing map is not optimal for every engine and/or operation.

[FloridaMan]

Wait. What’s this about running wires to the tail? I guess part of the install is to bypass the master relay? Mine just arrived today along with a set of fine wires. 

[FloridaMan]

Actually, now that I think about it, I think the master relay is right by the old battery box/jump start port, and I don’t see why you’d have to go all the way to the tail if you had to run a wire. 

[N231BN]

Actually, now that I think about it, I think the master relay is right by the old battery box/jump start port, and I don’t see why you’d have to go all the way to the tail if you had to run a wire. 

The challenge is getting wires through the cabin, once in the tailcone it's no big deal.

[Ragsf15e]

3 hours ago, Browncbr1 said:

Yea, sense you’re turbo, then it will be fixed anyway...   for those with naturally aspirated models, advancing is very problematic at higher altitudes when ROP high rpm climb.   It’s not an install issue..   this is a common and well documented issue.   

I have a SF on an F with advanced timing and have not had a problem rich or lean of peak.  I live in wa state and commonly cruise at 10-12,000’.  It does improve performance more LOP than ROP, but other than slightly warmer chts, I haven’t seen anything adverse.  In either case, the performance improvement is minimal.  I wouldn’t get one just to cruise 2kts faster LOP at 10k, but maint free for TBO is nice.

Yes, you’ll pull some interior and feed the power wire through the cockpit alongside your other wire bundles.  That was the hardest part of the installation.

[carusoam]

2 hours ago, FloridaMan said:

Wait. What’s this about running wires to the tail? I guess part of the install is to bypass the master relay? Mine just arrived today along with a set of fine wires. 

Expect that the reliable power source is the battery mounted in the tail...

If your battery is mounted on the firewall...  looks like things get a bit easier...

Taking power for the mag from other locations would not be as reliable...

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic.

-a-

[ArtVandelay]

Wait. What’s this about running wires to the tail? I guess part of the install is to bypass the master relay? Mine just arrived today along with a set of fine wires. 

By fine, you don’t mean thin?

I assume the power wire would be 14 or 12 gauge?

And it’s just one power wire?

I wonder if you need to use their wire? If pulling interior for some other reason could you prewire it with just any appropriate sized wire?

[FloridaMan]

I meant the fine wire plugs. To get in the panel to feed the wires, I’d probably remove the pilot’s seat. (If you haven’t done it: two cotter pins on the right track; it only takes a minute. Seat weighs nothing and took me years to discover removing a seat is far easier than trying to leave it in). Then pull screws holding the plastics to the carpet on the side and you can access all the wires.
 

[FloridaMan]

Wait a second... is the master relay in the tail? I’m thinking of the relay by the battery box for the jumpstart port. But I also tend to remember my M20F having a long battery wire that runs somewhere in front of the firewall. 

[Ragsf15e]

So the SF install manual required connection to either the battery or master relay.  In my 68F those are located next to each other in the “tail” behind the large access panel, so not all the way in the tail... but yeah, you gotta run a wire from there, through the cabin, through the firewall, to the mag. I do not recall what gage wire, but they didn’t supply the wire.

you may be thinking of the large wire running from the battery to the starter solenoid?

[N231BN]

The SIM must be powered from the “hot” side of the master relay with a minimum 14ga wire. The fuse should be located as close as possible to the relay.

[aviatoreb]

Don't forget a switch panel - its not required but it is nicer when doing the mag check I found.  Plus its really fun to start the engine by pressing a red button.

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/ea-ignswchpanel.php?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI8-KCq-aL6wIVDr7ACh02ugO7EAQYASABEgIKf_D_BwE

Edited August 8, 2020 by aviatoreb

[kortopates]

Don't forget a switch panel - its not required but it is nicer when doing the mag check I found.  Plus its really fun to start the engine by pressing a red button.
https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/ea-ignswchpanel.php?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI8-KCq-aL6wIVDr7ACh02ugO7EAQYASABEgIKf_D_BwE

They are nice, but they take up a lot more panel real estate.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[aviatoreb]

5 hours ago, kortopates said:

They are nice, but they take up a lot more panel real estate.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They do - but it still fits nicely where the old one was.  Still - you are right - they should have made one with a slightly smaller footprint.

Edited August 8, 2020 by aviatoreb

[carusoam]

Easier to turn the picture than the switch... 

-a-

[aviatoreb]

14 minutes ago, carusoam said:

Easier to turn the picture than the switch... 

-a-

It was right in the first place - I took the picture in the middle of a snap roll.

[carusoam]

The pi plane needs a touch more left rudder during the snap... 

PP thoughts only, not an aerobatics coach...

Best regards,

-a-