Cirrus Faster than Mooney, on Average

[Jerry 5TJ]

I just took a sample of data from FlightAware this morning at 8:30 am EDT.  Throughout the world here's what is shown airborne:

• There are 51 SR22 aloft.  They have ground speeds from 52 to 200 knots.  The average Cirrus GS is 151.6 knots
• There are 33 SR20 aloft.  They have ground speeds from 61 to 157 knots.  The average Cirrus GS is 112.6 knots
• There are 11 M20P aloft.  They have ground speeds of 78 to 145 knots.  The average Mooney GS is 108.9 knots.

FlightAware does not break down the model of Mooney aircraft below M20P, so this category is for all Models of M20. 

[aviatoreb]

9 minutes ago, Jerry 5TJ said:

I just took a sample of data from FlightAware this morning at 8:30 am EDT.  Throughout the world here's what is shown airborne:

• There are 51 SR22 aloft.  They have ground speeds from 52 to 200 knots.  The average Cirrus GS is 151.6 knots
• There are 33 SR20 aloft.  They have ground speeds from 61 to 157 knots.  The average Cirrus GS is 112.6 knots
• There are 11 M20P aloft.  They have ground speeds of 78 to 145 knots.  The average Mooney GS is 108.9 knots.

FlightAware does not break down the model of Mooney aircraft below M20P, so this category is for all Models of M20. 

What new FlightAware feature did you find and please teach me!

[Cruiser]

so your survey is as flawed as a national poll.

All Cirrus have IO-550 Continental engines.

Most Mooneys have Lycoming 360s only the long body would compare to the Cirrus.

What are you trying to prove ? What is the point of your comparison?

[aviatoreb]

Another flaw with this poll run at 830am is that well the fastest mooney drivers sleep until 1030am since they don't need to get up as early since they can sleep late and still get to where they need to go and on time.  Life at 242TAS.

[mike_elliott]

This says it all...

'nuff said.

 

 

[smwash02]

2 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

Another flaw with this poll run at 830am is that well the fastest mooney drivers sleep until 1030am since they don't need to get up as early since they can sleep late and still get to where they need to go and on time.  Life at 242TAS.

This is the most likely answer since there are only 11, the ones flying are new folks transitioning doing touch and gos.

[Cruiser]

the most important fact is that there are 84 Cirrus airplanes in flight and only 11 Mooneys. 

Sad. 

[milotron]

1 hour ago, Jerry 5TJ said:

I just took a sample of data from FlightAware this morning at 8:30 am EDT.  Throughout the world here's what is shown airborne:

• There are 51 SR22 aloft.  They have ground speeds from 52 to 200 knots.  The average Cirrus GS is 151.6 knots
• There are 33 SR20 aloft.  They have ground speeds from 61 to 157 knots.  The average Cirrus GS is 112.6 knots
• There are 11 M20P aloft.  They have ground speeds of 78 to 145 knots.  The average Mooney GS is 108.9 knots.

FlightAware does not break down the model of Mooney aircraft below M20P, so this category is for all Models of M20. 

Unless you have a different version of flightaware:

 

SR22 class also includes SR22 turbos.

M20P does NOT include any turbo mooney. You would need to use M20T for this.

 

 

[philiplane]

1 hour ago, Cruiser said:

the most important fact is that there are 84 Cirrus airplanes in flight and only 11 Mooneys. 

Sad. 

Yes, and now there are as many Cirrus in existence after 20 years, as there are Mooneys since day one. And Cirrus is adding 300 planes a year to the fleet, while Mooneys are being lost through accidents and scrapping for parts. The trend will continue since Cirrus is now the single engine business plane of choice. Same situation with Bonanzas, which were the business plane before Cirrus came to be.

The 155 knot SR20 will compare with every four cylinder Mooney, and the 175 knot SR22 will compare with the 232/252, and the 190-215 knot SR22T with the Ovations & Bravos. The one "shortcoming" of the Cirrus is you can't have a gear up, so it doesn't truly compare with most other HP singles.

Edited June 20, 2020 by philiplane

[irishpilot]

Agrees. M20T. I just landed and was leisurely doing 145 kts at economy cruise (27/2400) at 1,500' MSL. Long body Mooney's should be compared to SR22T. They are similar. I've flown both. Mooney Bravo's will do 200kts in the FLs. I typically see 190-195 kts in the high teens. I have FIKI so I give up a few knots.

I really don't see the point to compare speed or fire up the Cirrus/Mooney debate. Both are fine airplanes. Go fly both, check your wallet before purchase, and choose accordingly.

For 200 kts, you can spend much less on a good condition long body than used SR22T. If you love BRS, then Cirrus it is.

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[Davidv]

Too many variables to really compare, but I've always thought of it like:

Mooney Purchase: 60/40 Heart/Head

Cirrus Purchase: 40/60 Heart/Head

 

[Hank]

10 minutes ago, Davidv said:

Too many variables to really compare, but I've always thought of it like:

Mooney Purchase: 60/40 Heart/Head

Cirrus Purchase: 40/60 Heart/Head

 

I've always thought:

Cirrus--people afraid of something happening (because the parachute will save you, right?)

Mooney--people who love to fly!

Edited June 20, 2020 by Hank

[irishpilot]

I've always thought:
Cirrus--people afraid of something happening (because the parachute will save you, right?)
Mooney--people who love to fly!

In defense of Cirrus, I like the entry/exit better. Also has better headroom. I also like the leaning feature and advanced avionics. I like the BRS as an added safety tool for engine failures with no glide options. I like their community safety focus and Cirrus sponsored flight check outs for new owners.

I don't like the added mx costs and the price compared to similarly equipped Mooney's.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[bonal]

Classic hit and run, some people like to trash our beloved brand.  I'm happy for those that can afford an airplane that costs over 200k used and much more for a new model.  Personally I'm thankful that there are short body's that normal middle class people can afford. 2 plus 2 seater with one thousand useful load that can fly 140 to 155 knots C/E respectively with a 600 mile range.  If it weren't for the used market and to some extent experimental there would likely be no GA outside of business and commercial planes. When comparing knots to dollars nothing touches a vintage Mooney.

[bonal]

2 hours ago, aviatoreb said:

Another flaw with this poll run at 830am is that well the fastest mooney drivers sleep until 1030am since they don't need to get up as early since they can sleep late and still get to where they need to go and on time.  Life at 242TAS.

Love this analysis 

[MooneyMitch]

Another fine example of flawed statistics from experts................

[Jerry 5TJ]

2 hours ago, aviatoreb said:

What new FlightAware feature did you find and please teach me!

Look on FlightAware under “Live Flight Tracking”

under that “browse by type”

enter “M20P” and the all the non-turbo Mooney aircraft being tracked world wide will be shown.  

right click on the map and select “inspect element”

find the data file in the list

import a csv file into excel, sort by ground speed and calculate the average.  
 

[MooneyMitch]

"Cirrus Faster than Mooney, on Average" 

Don't even expect to put that kinda stuff up on MS and get away with it...........................another nyuck, nyuck, nyuck!

Always remember, never, ever start a fight on MS! 

Jocularity, of course!

[Jerry 5TJ]

2 hours ago, Cruiser said:

All Cirrus have IO-550 Continental engines.

Well, all SR22 have those.  SR20 fly behind a Continental 360 engine.  

[aviatoreb]

...but wait - the Cirrus has a parachute.

Discuss.

[Jerry 5TJ]

2 hours ago, milotron said:

M20P does NOT include any turbo mooney. You would need to use M20T for this.

Thanks, I’ll add that next pass. 

[Davidv]

18 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

...but wait - the Cirrus has a parachute.

Discuss.

Does anyone know if it would be feasible to put a parachute in a Mooney?  Better yet, maybe a modernized version of the J model with a higher UL...

 

[milotron]

21 minutes ago, Jerry 5TJ said:

Thanks, I’ll add that next pass. 

It is an interesting analysis.

 

i also have an underlying jealousy for your P46T...

[PJClark]

1 hour ago, philiplane said:

The 155 knot SR20 will compare with every four cylinder Mooney, and the 175 knot SR22 will compare with the 232/252, and the 190-215 knot SR22T with the Ovations & Bravos. The one "shortcoming" of the Cirrus is you can't have a gear up, so it doesn't truly compare with most other HP singles.

Well...I flew an SR20 once, my first flight in 13 years since I sold my M20J in 2005.  It was nice, but I found its performance "uninspiring".  At the time I thought it had a Lycoming IO-360...later discovered it was a Continental IO-360.  4 cyl vs 6 cyl...but stil the performance was not what I remembered from my 201.

I transitioned to the SR22 hoping to scratch my returned itch to fly. Finished all the Cirrus training, and on my 4th or 5th flight thereafter I was just out to fly. Leveled off at 6000' set up in cruise at 75% power burning 18.9 gph...and I did not quite have 170 KTAS.  Uninspiring...actually maddening.  Brute force, yes, but that performance from 310 hp and 19 gph?  I missed my Mooney.

I now own a Rocket. I was at 5,000 feet last Sunday heading home to Ohio from KJVY.  17.8 gph, 175 KTAS at 65% power, engine not even trying hard.  Way back in the day, my '78 M20J would consistently get 162 KTAS on 11 gph

Point is:  i think your Cirrus speeds are "book speeds"...my experience is neither will do that.  I supposed you get by with the word "compare"...150-155 knots will "compare" with an M20J...but it sure ain't the same.  I think an Ovation will outrun any NA SR22 by 7-10 knots at all altitudes, and probalby do it on at least 2-3 gph less gas. Turbos?  same, probably a better delta in favor of the M20Ts.

Is a Cirrus "bigger"?  Feels bigger. More comfortable?  Personal preference:  I like my Mooney, I like the sitting position, I like how it feels in my hands, and I like the exhileration of seeing the elegance of the engineering that produces the raw speed.

[MIm20c]

Sorry guys, I’ve been putzing around Michigan lately at 6-7 gph. Just nice to be in the air again regularly. I feel like I’m pulling down on the curve. I imagine my Mooney brothers don’t appreciate it as much as my classmates did in college...:).