Sandel 3308

[robert7467]

The display is a little choppy. See bottom x. Does anyone know what it could be? Also I see that it needs to be hooked up to it's own dimmer switch. I see a pin for the dimmer, but how does it return. Is it pin to potentiometer, then to ground? Or does it return somewhere in the unit? Brightness is an issue, perhaps switch or bulb and or both? Thanks for your help guys!

[smwash02]

Here is the pilot insert. Page 99 / A2-5 says the X refers to NAV/Lateral Deviation.

Here is the dimming wiring diagram.

[carusoam]

nice docs smw!
 

The Sandel is a bit old in technology.... and uses an expensive light bulb that needs periodic replacement for AW legality...

As far as dimming goes... wiring it with the proper resistor for relative dimming compared to other panel instruments is possible... or else everyone would have a half dozen dimmer knobs on the panel...

Best to have professional install if using in IMC...   

Failure of the HSI to properly give guidance is extra challenging to figure out while flying...

Nothing like seeing the HSI indicating one thing and the simple compass saying something else... while on the edge of class B.

It would be great if... somebody could put an LED in there to light the instrument forever...

PP thoughts only, not an instrument tech...

Best regards,

-a-

 

[robert7467]

So 26 is basically a ground and terminates to pin 4? What about the display? Do you guys think it's a bulb issue?

[MIm20c]

Just now, robert7467 said:

So 26 is basically a ground and terminates to pin 4? What about the display? Do you guys think it's a bulb issue?

Doesn’t look like a bulb issue to me but I have no experience with the unit. However, if the plane is not airworthy because of age of the bulb, it’s probably a good idea to change it out anyway. 

[carusoam]

The X?

Not a bulb issue...

The Sandel is a powerful little computer with a back lit LCD (?) display...

If you get an X... look up what it means... have it checked out...
 

looks like it is missing an outside signal from something..... the user guide should be pretty easy to use for figuring it out...

There may be two versions of guides for avionics... user and an installation guide...

Some avionics companies are better at making their manuals available to everyone compared to others...

PP thoughts only...

Best regards,

-a-

[robert7467]

I am not talking about the X itself, but the graineieness of the color.

[carusoam]

Projector screen...

the image is projected onto a frosty panel from behind... bulb, LCD screen, projected on frosty glass.... then eyeball...

compared to new touch screens... the love for Sandels has long passed...

Even non-touch screens are more loved...

The computer chip speed of modern displays is smooth as old mechanical devices.... 

Their HD displays operate without jagged motion....

What year was the Sandel manufactured?

Best regards,

-a-

[robert7467]

I found the pinout for the dimmer. I am just curious if this display is toast or is it just a bulb. I will call sandel tomorrow. I installed all of this under an AI/Avionics guy but he is out of reach. 

[tmo]

There is some discussion about the Sandel light bulbs and brightness over on EuroGA here and here - try the second link first.

[robert7467]

I pulled apart the roached, spare that I have and that eye behind the light bulb looks dirty, but wont clean with a q-tip, I suspect that its some sort of corrosion. I reached out to Sandel and waiting to hear back from them. On the one I have installed in the plane, its a little pixelated (not a word), but my main issue is with brightness. I suspect if I add a dimmer pot on that one, I should be able to get another 5 years out of it.

[robert7467]

I know no one cares, but I am writing to document this so people can look it up in the future. I reached out to Sandel and they said they believe its a LCD issue and it was going to be a min of $2000 to fix.

Since I had 2 units, I decided to pull them apart to see if I can put together a good working unit. Both the units had delamanted LCD screens. I looked up the part and its hard to find. I am sure the part, if I could find one, would be no more than $100, but yet Sandel wants $2000 and they will not sell me the part. These LCD screens seem to delaminate over time.

My options at this point is a GI-106 or buy a Sandel for $1600 which the display looks good, but I am sure the delamination process has already started and its a matter of time.

I am kind of at a loss on what to do here, but I think the 106 and adding a vacuum DG would probably be the best and most cost effective solution.

I have a 420 which is the same as the 430 without the nav board and a KX 165. Does anyone have any suggestions on a better or cheaper solution?

[Vance Harral]

I realize it feels like a downgrade because it's not glass, but our steam gauge vacuum DG and GI-106A have been serving us very well for the last 8 years.  That said, if it were me, I'd spring for a DG with heading bug.  I find not having a heading bug on our vacuum DG to be a non-trivial annoyance, and I think you'll miss it vs. the Sandel.  Note that for me, this has nothing to do with autopilot functionality, I just like being able to set a manual heading reference for various reasons: when I'm assigned a vector from ATC, to visualize a runway heading or course intercept, etc.  I can make do by using the #2 CDI or the heading indicator on our old Brittain autopilot to "remember" a heading, but it's not as good as a heading bug on the DG.

[smwash02]

@Vance Harral While not as nice as the built in ones, you can get a suction cup bug.

[robert7467]

I just found a guy with a really nice unit and he is giving me a $600 towards my 2 bad units for a total of $1000.

[Vance Harral]

1 hour ago, smwash02 said:

@Vance Harral While not as nice as the built in ones, you can get a suction cup bug.

Suction cup bugs work OK for airspeed and altitude marks, but not heading on a DG.  The bug needs to move as the DG rotates, so that it keeps marking the same heading.

[Davidv]

That's odd you don't have a dimmer (if I read that correctly).  It should be below the yoke.  I have an issue with mine overheating up high so I often turn down the bulb as low as it can go when I'm just in cruise and on NAV mode. 

[carusoam]

Compare to a G5...

Somebody is selling one around here...

Best regards,

-a-

[jetdriven]

On 6/2/2020 at 11:12 AM, robert7467 said:

I just found a guy with a really nice unit and he is giving me a $600 towards my 2 bad units for a total of $1000.

take it.   roll on a few more years.

[robert7467]

4 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

take it.   roll on a few more years.

Yeah, hopefully it will buy me enough time for the used G5/ Dynon units start coming out. 

[jetdriven]

G5 is a major downgrade from the Sandel. I was personally told that by a garmin rep at OSH.  the Sandel is an EFIS while the G5 is a HSI.

[Ragsf15e]

On 6/3/2020 at 12:03 PM, jetdriven said:

G5 is a major downgrade from the Sandel. I was personally told that by a garmin rep at OSH.  the Sandel is an EFIS while the G5 is a HSI.

A partially working, sorta readable Sandel compared to a working, good screen G5?  Maybe not exactly a downgrade.

Just curious, what does the Sandel display that a G5 doesn’t?

[LANCECASPER]

Twenty plus years ago when I first saw the Sandel PFD/HSI, etc. I thought it was pretty advanced. I had an Argus 5000 at the time as an MFD and it displayed moving map, stormscope and ADF. In 1995 with I took my IFR checkride the DPE said that using that was almost like cheating . . lol.

But what bothered me back then and still does now is that single point of failure, the projector bulb. It will tell you how many hours are on the bulb, etc., but it seems even at the time that Sandel came out with their unit that there were better screen solutions than a projector bulb.

[Gary0747]

Your original unit may have just been fine. There have been people trying to save a few dollars on the 12volt halogen projector bulbs.  They can be bought for less than 5 dollars with the same wattage and specs as the bulb Sandel sells you for $150. The problem is the height of the bulb filament above the base varies and that can affect the display brightness and brightness location since the light is reflected off a mirror and the dimensions and angles are critical.  Also not having the pot hooked up properly can lead you to believe you have a problem.  Check some of the old discussions on the 3308 o the Beech web site for some good background. 

[robert7467]

12 hours ago, Gary0747 said:

Your original unit may have just been fine. There have been people trying to save a few dollars on the 12volt halogen projector bulbs.  They can be bought for less than 5 dollars with the same wattage and specs as the bulb Sandel sells you for $150. The problem is the height of the bulb filament above the base varies and that can affect the display brightness and brightness location since the light is reflected off a mirror and the dimensions and angles are critical.  Also not having the pot hooked up properly can lead you to believe you have a problem.  Check some of the old discussions on the 3308 o the Beech web site for some good background. 

I had 2 of them, both of which I took apart to see if I could combine parts to make 1 good unit. Both of the LCD screens were delaminated. I purchased one for $1k by trading in the other 2 for parts.