Ovation recognition light factory mounting

[r0ckst4r]

I have a blown recognition light and in the process of taking it out I notice that it was a little "cheesed" when it was installed.  It basically was in the little square hole with nothing holding it in other than some adhesive on the back of the reflector cone.  How did these things come mounted from the factory?  I can't imagine that to replace it needs adhesive to hold it in.  There doesn't seem to be a screw or latch, just the black outer cover and a small metal square plate that it goes through.  Am I missing a piece?

[ArtVandelay]

Im not sure about your vintage, by mine were secured by a clip on the base that snapped into place.

[hypertech]

A little square clip holds the recognition light assembly in place.  There's a pretty long thread around here somewhere about what elfs have done to replace that with an LED.  Otherwise, its basically just a projector bulb with the reflector sawed down.  If its not staying put in its spot, bend the little square clip a bit like a taco and it will grab on better.

Should be no adhesive.  That suggests the clip is missing.  But, its also not all that big so maybe look around with a flashlight and make sure it hasn't fallen off.

Edited March 13, 2020 by hypertech

[r0ckst4r]

Thank you for the replies.  There is a little metal piece with a square hole but it definitely doesn't snap in.  I'm guessing I'm missing that piece.  Any ideas on the part number or where it can be found?

[Steve W]

8 minutes ago, r0ckst4r said:

Thank you for the replies.  There is a little metal piece with a square hole but it definitely doesn't snap in.  I'm guessing I'm missing that piece.  Any ideas on the part number or where it can be found?

Nope, that's the one, it's sort of a press fit unless it vibrates and the bulb wears down, then you stick some silicone on it to keep it in place or bend it slightly as previously mentioned. It physically can't disappear since the wires go through it, worst case it slides down the wires when it comes off. It really is a horrible system, but at least it doesn't weigh much.

[hypertech]

Paet drawing in this thread.  Item 11 is the square clip that holds it.

 

 

[r0ckst4r]

2 minutes ago, Steve W said:

Nope, that's the one, it's sort of a press fit unless it vibrates and the bulb wears down, then you stick some silicone on it to keep it in place or bend it slightly as previously mentioned. It physically can't disappear since the wires go through it, worst case it slides down the wires when it comes off. It really is a horrible system, but at least it doesn't weigh much.

Wow.  They bitch about us modifying our planes and this is what they come up with in the factory?  Guess I'll get a little silicone.

[r0ckst4r]

5 minutes ago, hypertech said:

Paet drawing in this thread.  Item 11 is the square clip that holds it.

 

 

Actually I think I am missing that piece.  I have #7 that's the metal piece but I did not see #11.

[PJClark]

I just ordered these for the hangar elves to play with as recommended  by @Deb

Lamps:  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LX4FMD1/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1. 

sockets: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KHTTSSY/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1. 

At 1550 lumens each I'm aiming to be hotter than an August sun in Arizona (although I live in OH)

[r0ckst4r]

45 minutes ago, PJClark said:

I just ordered these for the hangar elves to play with as recommended  by @Deb

Lamps:  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LX4FMD1/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1. 

sockets: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KHTTSSY/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1. 

At 1550 lumens each I'm aiming to be hotter than an August sun in Arizona (although I live in OH)

That looks like a great idea, except the lights have that canbus feature which I think makes them draw more wattage.  I think I'm going to get those sockets right now though.

Edited March 14, 2020 by r0ckst4r

[tmo]

I'd bet that idle CANBUS circuitry uses way less power than the delta between LED and incandescent bulbs...

[r0ckst4r]

On 3/13/2020 at 8:19 PM, PJClark said:

I just ordered these for the hangar elves to play with as recommended  by @Deb

Lamps:  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LX4FMD1/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1. 

sockets: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KHTTSSY/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1. 

At 1550 lumens each I'm aiming to be hotter than an August sun in Arizona (although I live in OH)

@PJClark How do you plan on mounting those when you get them?

[PJClark]

not sure, was planning to remove one and look at it and then make a plan. But probably will use the maglite reflector approach above (noticed my reflectors are pretty jank anyway)--from what I gather all those guys did was grind down the round stem on the reflector to make it close the same shape as the original bulb and then....I have to say I have no idea how it's held in there after they do that...

Maybe "RTV A/R", which is pretty much the answer to every problem near as I can tell... 

[r0ckst4r]

My lights were literally held in by nothing other than that ridiculous RTV.  I guess we will just have to devise a better way of installing lights.  Also if anyone wants my one recognition light that's still good I guess they are pretty expensive so I'll let mine go cheap.  I'm taking them out for now until I devise a better solution.

Edited March 21, 2020 by r0ckst4r

[Rick Junkin]

I had been following the recommendations made on this thread with great interest, enough interest in fact to order some of the piece parts and some additional ones I had some ideas for and have them available for a rainy day to fiddle with. And so here we are… The idea is to build an LED replacement for the recognition lights without major disassembly or rewiring of the original installation with an added level of difficulty of being able to replace the LED bulbs easily if that ever became necessary.

The attached PDF details today's adventure. For those who would rather not be bothered with the details I've attach the pics.

 

Cheers,
Rick

Recognition light replacement pdf.pdf

[StevenL757]

Rick, appreciate the write up.  I tried this similar exercise, and wound up with several lights that started emitting smoke within 15-20 seconds after powering them up on the aircraft to test.  I ordered about a dozen, and the first four or five out of the box did the same thing.  The connection at the wing was getting 12v per my multimeter when powered, so the dropping resistor was doing it’s job.  Note the wisp of smoke to the left of the light during this test.

I know @Txbyker (Russ...who since sold his Ovation) did a write up on here as well, and did not experience what I did, so I’m open to troubleshooting tips or guidance here.  I’d like to make this solution work on my ship.

Steve

[Rick Junkin]

2 minutes ago, StevenL757 said:

I tried this similar exercise, and wound up with several lights that started emitting smoke

It looks like you were using an alternate socket, am I seeing that correctly? Were  you able to identify the component of the LED that was the source of the smoke? Possibly try the LED with a different 12V source? Could it have been the rubber socket that was smoking? I'm sure you looked at all of that, but I have to ask.

I'm wondering if these LEDs are intended for short duration use. Can't imagine that would be true though.

I'll let you know what I find out tomorrow.

Cheers,
Rick

[StevenL757]

Good questions.  I used the sockets and bulbs listed.  The smoke appeared to come from the base of the LED near the bayonet.  I tried pulling the metal clips out of the rubber, tested again, and had the same issue.  I did not try another 12v source, but will do that.

Steve

[Rick Junkin]

9 minutes ago, StevenL757 said:

I used the sockets and bulbs listed.

I got some of those sockets and didn’t like the way they looked. The wire gauge looked smaller than I wanted and the wedge clips are thin gauge copper, so I decided to go a different route. Does that description match what you have? We may have received different items. However, what I received would probably work fine for this low draw light, I just didn’t like it.

At any rate, the setup I’m working on is pretty heavy duty so I’ll be able to isolate to the LED if I have any anomalies.

Cheers,
Rick

[hypertech]

What’s the voltage rating on the LED?  A lot of those are rated to 12-14V for automotive. Without the high current draw of the halogen light, the resistor won’t drop as much voltage.  Some do exist that have ratings for 24V system. Like this:

Botepon 1600 Lumens Extremely... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077NJZ35C?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

[PJClark]

Those LEDs are rated 9-30 VDC.  I tried one connected to my 12 v lawnmower battery and it works great but CAUTION: sucker is BRIGHT. I had an image of the six LEDs on the side burned into my retina for about 15 minutes.   Had me a bit worried for a bit.  Fine after 15 min or so.

 

[Rick Junkin]

2 hours ago, hypertech said:

What’s the voltage rating on the LED?

Here's the LED that was recommended earlier that I have, and I believe the same one @PJClark is talking about.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LX4FMD1/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Reading through the Amazon description for this item it does say "only used for backup reverse light". No way to tell if that's because it's so bright or because it isn't designed for always-on. I'd guess because it's so bright. 

EDIT: I just saw that the one you linked also says it's for backup lights. Must be the brightness.

Cheers,
Rick

[r0ckst4r]

6 hours ago, hypertech said:

What’s the voltage rating on the LED?  A lot of those are rated to 12-14V for automotive. Without the high current draw of the halogen light, the resistor won’t drop as much voltage.  Some do exist that have ratings for 24V system. Like this:

Botepon 1600 Lumens Extremely... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077NJZ35C?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

This is correct.  The resistor basically does nothing.  Current with an LED is 21.6v

[StevenL757]

10 hours ago, Junkman said:

Here's the LED that was recommended earlier that I have, and I believe the same one @PJClark is talking about.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LX4FMD1/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I’m going to order a couple of these along with the clips from Mouser you showed.  If these also smoke, I suspect wiring or something else that I can’t identify.

Correction...I’m trying some of the lights @hypertech recommended...here:  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077NJZ35C?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

Steve