Rifle(KRIL), Eagle(KEGE) or Kremmling(20V)?

[kmyfm20s]

I searched before I asked this question but I didn’t see enough to answer my questions. Weather permitting I’m hoping to fly from San Diego to Colorado for a Breckenridge ski trip early April.  The 3 airports that look the most promising to me are Rifle(KRIL), Eagle(KEGE) and Kremmling(20V). Rifle probably gives me more outs if the weather turns on me but the drive is about 2 hours. Kremmling is about an hour drive but looks likes I could easily get trapped if the weather turns for the worse. Eagle being a balance between the 2 and is what I’m leaning towards. We are planning to stay 5 nights and need a rental car. All airport list rental car available.  I would prefer to have electricity available to plug in the engine heater or be able to put the plane in a hangar the last night night before departure. If anyone has any recent experience with cost, cars, commute, etc to share at any of these airports I would appreciate it. 

Thank you in advance,

Karson

[PaulM]

If nobody else has recent experience:

Eagle will be the closest, as it is on I70.   Check the winter rates for hangar space, probably around 150-200 for the night.   I paid 176 for a hanger at KBJC this winter,   it was worth it not to scrape the frost off and worry about the freezing fog from the day before.  (all ramp planes had frost). 

If weather is bad on the way in.. stop at rifle and take the driving penalty. 

[Denver98]

Fly to APA or BJC.  I can get to Breck in 90 minutes from Downtown Denver.  CDOT closes Vail Pass all the time, mainly for accidents and spinouts.  It can be beautiful weather and vail pass will close because of a accident and you’re stuck.  There are several routes that will take you to Breck from Denver, the longest, HWY 285 to CO 9 is 2 hours(ish).   If you don’t want to fly to Denver, then Kremmling would be the best but I have no idea if they have hangar space for your plane.  Not sure how soon you’re planning your trip but the weather is going to be great here this weekend, could be 70 on Sunday...BUT...then on Monday and Tuesday we’re expecting our first snow storm of the year.  Ya got to love Colorado.  

[MB65E]

Was in Eagle last week with our jet. Did the LDA 25. Vail valley FBO was great to work with, they even had hangar space for our Falcon. Stayed in Glenwood Springs. Weather was cold and dry. 
the approach has come gotchas. I wouldn’t fly it single engine at night. 

good little refresher below. 
http://www.boldmethod.com/blog/quizzes/ifr/iap/2014/06/kege-lda-25/
fly safe. 

-Matt

[FoxMike]

I agree with Denver98.  Land in Denver and drive from there.  You might be able to find some hangar space or a plug in for an engine heater.  Mountain airports are a problem in winter.  Little space and the day you leave you might find your plane snow covered..  Can take a lot of time to get it in shape for flight.  If you need to get close to Brec.  You might consider AEJ.  Call and see if you can rent some hangar space.  The night before you leave you really need to have the plane in a heated hangar.  Folks in Buena Vista are friendly and helpful.  I do not know about rent cars in Buena Vista.

[Bolter]

40 minutes ago, FoxMike said:

 Land in Denver and drive from there.  

Does that consider that he is coming from the West?  That adds significantly more mountains and a higher minimum altitude to fly over than landing Rifle or Eagle.  I also see a greater chance of being stuck on the Eastern side come departure, when it may be good enough to get out of the I-70 airports of the West.  I have not flown Colorado in winter, just summer and fall.  Are clear sky with low winds problems less likely in April?

[N201MKTurbo]

Glenwood Springs is always fun if the weather is good. Not much in the way of facilities, but you can get a car from Enterprise.

[jrwilson]

I flew into eagle.  They had a heated hangar which was nice.  Glen wood springs had a fun hot springs pool/hot tub facility which I would recommend for an evening 

[MB65E]

Iron mountain hot springs was nice. The place was packed as it the thing to do I guess after skiing all day. It’d be more fun with some buds or at least your wife. Hanging out in a hot spring solo was a bit strange. $27 for the evening. Good views. 
-Matt

[kmyfm20s]

10 hours ago, Dan at S43 said:

Does that consider that he is coming from the West?  That adds significantly more mountains and a higher minimum altitude to fly over than landing Rifle or Eagle.  I also see a greater chance of being stuck on the Eastern side come departure, when it may be good enough to get out of the I-70 airports of the West.  I have not flown Colorado in winter, just summer and fall.  Are clear sky with low winds problems less likely in April?

Exactly! If the weather not forecasted to be good enough for the airports I listed I would just fly commercial to Denver and drive up. Several airports along I-70 if needed.

20V, 3:50hrs flight, 1hr drive, 4:50hrs total

KEGE, 3:40hrs flight, 1:15hrs drive, 5:05hrs total

KRIL, 3:30hrs flight, 2hrs drive, 5:30hrs total

KBJC, 4:05hrs flight, 1:37hrs drive, 5:42hrs total

[kmyfm20s]

4 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Glenwood Springs is always fun if the weather is good. Not much in the way of facilities, but you can get a car from Enterprise.

I have flown in there a few time and is a good one. Driven through too many times before I was a pilot.

1 hour ago, MB65E said:

Iron mountain hot springs was nice. The place was packed as it the thing to do I guess after skiing all day. It’d be more fun with some buds or at least your wife. Hanging out in a hot spring solo was a bit strange. $27 for the evening. Good views. 
-Matt

I know the feeling! I went to Dental School in Nebraska and I would drive home on the I-70 for breaks. I would stop and Jump in the hot springs by myself and it definitely felt a little odd. This time I will have the family and I am looking forward to jumping in with them it if this is the way we go.

 

 

 

[Yetti]

Vail has the second most expensive McDonalds in the world behind russia.     At least that was the economics in the early 90s.

[N201MKTurbo]

2 hours ago, kmyfm20s said:

I have flown in there a few time and is a good one. Driven through too many times before I was a pilot.

I know the feeling! I went to Dental School in Nebraska and I would drive home on the I-70 for breaks. I would stop and Jump in the hot springs by myself and it definitely felt a little odd. This time I will have the family and I am looking forward to jumping in with them it if this is the way we go.

 

 

 

The locals know where the free hot springs are down in the river. Went down there with them one winter. River water 1 degree above freezing, hot spring water 1 degree below boiling. You have to swirl it around constantly to keep from freezing/scalding....

But, at least I can say I did it.

[kmyfm20s]

3 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

The locals know where the free hot springs are down in the river. Went down there with them one winter. River water 1 degree above freezing, hot spring water 1 degree below boiling. You have to swirl it around constantly to keep from freezing/scalding....

But, at least I can say I did it.

My mom was born in Colorado(Telluride)and my grandfather was a rancher on the western slope. We used to do our summer motorhome trips throughout the Rockies and would hit all the hot springs. This was before they all became commercialized. As a young boy it was pretty exciting seeing all the naked hippy girls:) 

 They closed hot springs by Mammoth mountain because the source would have unpredictable upwelling of scolding water. After enough dummies ignored the warning signs and cooked themselves they finally closed them. Now there are only a few small warm springs available around the area with people you don’t really want to share the bath water with. 

[N201MKTurbo]

49 minutes ago, kmyfm20s said:

My mom was born in Colorado(Telluride)and my grandfather was a rancher on the western slope. We used to do our summer motorhome trips throughout the Rockies and would hit all the hot springs. This was before they all became commercialized. As a young boy it was pretty exciting seeing all the naked hippy girls:) 

 They closed hot springs by Mammoth mountain because the source would have unpredictable upwelling of scolding water. After enough dummies ignored the warning signs and cooked themselves they finally closed them. Now there are only a few small warm springs available around the area with people you don’t really want to share the bath water with. 

As an old guy, I still get excited seeing the naked hippy girls!

[FoxMike]

Trying to make recommendations for someone I don"t know is really difficult.  If you have Ox equipment and mountain experience that is one thing, if not you need to be very conservative.  Are your passengers Ok with some delays if the weather turns against you?  Can they or do they want to handle turbulence?  A direct route from KMYF takes you over the Grand Canyon. You have altitude restrictions to deal with and if you are IFR you need to be pretty high or no radar contact .  If you are  good so far a flying adventure might workout.  You need to know how to correctly lean the mixture for takeoff.  Sounds like you will have a  full load and temps in April maybe getting warm enough to require leaning.  If your passengers do not enjoy the flight they may not want to go others places with you.  I know many pilots in Denver who spouse and kids will not go anywhere in an small airplane after a ride in the Colorado bumps.  

[Yetti]

We were somewhere in Co where you could go in and rent a steam room fueled by hot springs to "open up your pours"   Seemed very weird since we can do that for free in Houston by walking outside.

[N201MKTurbo]

3 hours ago, Yetti said:

Vail has the second most expensive McDonalds in the world behind russia.     At least that was the economics in the early 90s.

IDK, I paid $9.50 for a #1 meal in Manhattan And $12.50 in Tahiti (the new one out by Tahiti Iti)

I used to work in Vail occasionally and got to know the locals. There is a complete underground economy for the locals, including unmarked bars and restaurants that are 25% the price of the tourist joints. If they don't know you, they will tell you to leave.

This was back in the 80s, but I bet they are still there!

[N201MKTurbo]

4 hours ago, Yetti said:

Vail has the second most expensive McDonalds in the world behind russia.     At least that was the economics in the early 90s.

Well, I finally found their price list. (not easy) the prices seem normal for a McDs. But the reviews are horrible! Quite a few say it is the worst McDs in the world!

[kmyfm20s]

1 hour ago, FoxMike said:

Trying to make recommendations for someone I don"t know is really difficult.  If you have Ox equipment and mountain experience that is one thing, if not you need to be very conservative.  Are your passengers Ok with some delays if the weather turns against you?  Can they or do they want to handle turbulence?  A direct route from KMYF takes you over the Grand Canyon. You have altitude restrictions to deal with and if you are IFR you need to be pretty high or no radar contact .  If you are  good so far a flying adventure might workout.  You need to know how to correctly lean the mixture for takeoff.  Sounds like you will have a  full load and temps in April maybe getting warm enough to require leaning.  If your passengers do not enjoy the flight they may not want to go others places with you.  I know many pilots in Denver who spouse and kids will not go anywhere in an small airplane after a ride in the Colorado bumps.  

I appreciate your concern. I have plenty of high altitude and mountain flying experience.
I was more concerned with the recommendations of the airports and people’s experience with them. It looks like all 3 airports list cars available to rent, hangars to rent and possibly electricity to plug into? To give an example when I go skiing in Deer Valley I used to fly into Heber City. This is a great airport in the summer time but in winter time your plane will frost over and they don’t have electricity to plug your engine heater into. That wasn’t too big of deal since I have a little generator for the engine heater and propylene glycol to help get the frost off or I could put the plane in a hangar the night before I left. But what stop me from flying there and start using KSLC instead was the ground fog that would sit in the valley and take hours to clear out. It turned out to be worth the extra time driving.

[kmyfm20s]

2 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

As an old guy, I still get excited seeing the naked hippy girls!

So does this old guy! The problem is that ones willing to skinny dip these days aren’t the same caliber as the old days:)

Edited February 2, 2020 by kmyfm20s

[Yetti]

1 hour ago, N201MKTurbo said:

IDK, I paid $9.50 for a #1 meal in Manhattan And $12.50 in Tahiti (the new one out by Tahiti Iti)

I used to work in Vail occasionally and got to know the locals. There is a complete underground economy for the locals, including unmarked bars and restaurants that are 25% the price of the tourist joints. If they don't know you, they will tell you to leave.

This was back in the 80s, but I bet they are still there!

"Do you have a local discount?"   But you have to look the part.  A Town of Vail jacket, Vail Associates jacket  were easy.. Hiking boots and jeans or ski clothes with duct tape were the other give aways.

[4cornerflyer]

I go into Eagle almost every month. Vail Valley Jet Center is a pleasure to deal with. For the Mooney ramp parking will be about $15 per night, and they will plug in the engine heater for you your last night at no extra charge. Hangar will cost you $160 in the winter, but only $50 in the warm season, which is probably after April. If there's going to be snow while you're there, which is the whole point of going, you can do the hangar your last night. Plenty of rental cars at Eagle. Hertz has a desk in the FBO, so that's the simplest to arrange, and you can do it directly online. Others will deliver to the FBO if you call (definitely Avis). An SUV will cost you a pretty penny in the winter, but regular cars are pretty reasonable. Note that self-serve is currently $1.45 less per gallon than full serve.

If you want to do the mountains in the winter, you need to be flexible by at least one day coming and going. And adjust your time of arrival and departure, since if may not be bad all day. I wouldn't worry about the drive. Yes, the interstate closes all the time, but usually not for that long. And it closes on the east side too.

Never been in to Rifle, but I have planned it as an alternate. The cars there will be from Hertz at Eagle, same prices. It's about one hour more of a drive. Helps some with weather but not as much as you would think.

I wouldn't do Kremmling. Not nearly as much in the way of services there, especially with cars. Plus it's farther, and surrounded by mountains.

As a back up I would think about Grand Junction GJT. Farther out, but you're out of the mountains, so you'll almost certainly get in there.

So my advice: plan first choice at Eagle. Reserve the rental ASAP, but keep checking prices because they might go down a day or two before. Spring for the hangar on your last night, but outside is ok before that. Use GJT as your alternate, so reserve a car there too. If it looks like a storm is coming, go a day early or later. Enjoy.

Jon

 

 

 

 

 

[kmyfm20s]

50 minutes ago, 4cornerflyer said:

I go into Eagle almost every month. Vail Valley Jet Center is a pleasure to deal with. For the Mooney ramp parking will be about $15 per night, and they will plug in the engine heater for you your last night at no extra charge. Hangar will cost you $160 in the winter, but only $50 in the warm season, which is probably after April. If there's going to be snow while you're there, which is the whole point of going, you can do the hangar your last night. Plenty of rental cars at Eagle. Hertz has a desk in the FBO, so that's the simplest to arrange, and you can do it directly online. Others will deliver to the FBO if you call (definitely Avis). An SUV will cost you a pretty penny in the winter, but regular cars are pretty reasonable. Note that self-serve is currently $1.45 less per gallon than full serve.

If you want to do the mountains in the winter, you need to be flexible by at least one day coming and going. And adjust your time of arrival and departure, since if may not be bad all day. I wouldn't worry about the drive. Yes, the interstate closes all the time, but usually not for that long. And it closes on the east side too.

Never been in to Rifle, but I have planned it as an alternate. The cars there will be from Hertz at Eagle, same prices. It's about one hour more of a drive. Helps some with weather but not as much as you would think.

I wouldn't do Kremmling. Not nearly as much in the way of services there, especially with cars. Plus it's farther, and surrounded by mountains.

As a back up I would think about Grand Junction GJT. Farther out, but you're out of the mountains, so you'll almost certainly get in there.

So my advice: plan first choice at Eagle. Reserve the rental ASAP, but keep checking prices because they might go down a day or two before. Spring for the hangar on your last night, but outside is ok before that. Use GJT as your alternate, so reserve a car there too. If it looks like a storm is coming, go a day early or later. Enjoy.

Jon

 

 

 

 

 

Great information, thank you!

[TGreen]

Question about the pattern at KEGE: on left downwind for 25, looks like the hills are RIGHT THERE. Is downwind inside of those hills or over them? Extend downwind for a nice stable straight in?