Looked at my first Mooney this weekend M20C 1964

[docjeffry]

Well, I did it. A friend of mine and i looked at a M20C. The broker (my flight instructor at KGOK) told me this was originally sold as a D with fixed gear and prop and converted back to a C with retract and constant speed prop later. It's pretty fit. I think it's a project but it appears to be a solid foundation. Obviously there are no modern avionics which I'm okay with that. there are some minor hail pings on the control surfaces. I really wish it were cleaned up so I could get a better look. This aircraft is priced at 32.5K. It needs ADS-B, and modern panel. Engine has 1170 SMOH. Total time 3814.

What is your opinion on this airplane?

My position: mechanic (life long not A&P) machinist, former harley builder, car builder.

mission: flying around in my local sandbox for 5 years, time to get out. just me and my wife. 

This may be a partnership.

 

Specs:

CRABTREE AIRCRAFT COMPANY, INC.

520 AIRPORT ROAD

GUTHRIE-EDMOND REGIONAL AIRPORT

GUTHRIE, OKLAHOMA 73044

PH. 405-282-4250 FX. 405-282-3130

 

FOR SALE

1964 MOONEY M20D/C

REGISTRATION NUMBER N1924Y

SERIAL NUMBER 219

AIRCRAFT TOTAL TIME 3814 HOURS

ENGINE TIME SINCE MAJOR OVERHAUL 1171 HOURS

PROPELLER TIME SINCE NEW 444 HOURS HARTZELL 3 BLADE

ANNUAL INSPECTION DUE NOVEMBER 2020

NO MAJOR DAMAGE HISTORY

 

AVIONICS

KING KA 134 AUDIO PANEL

KING KX175B NAVCOM WITH ILS

KING KX179B NAVCOM

3 LIGHT MARKER BEACON

KING KR86 ADF

KING KN64 DME

KING KT76A TRANSPONDER

GARMIN AREA 500 GPS

SIGTRONICS PORTABLE INTERCOM

CENTURY II B AUTOPILOT COUPLED

 

ADDITIONAL EQUIPMENT

EXHAUST GAS TEMPERATURE GAUGE

BELLY STROBE LIGHT

VERTICAL CARD COMPASS

TANIS ENGINE HEATER

 

EXTERIOR

OVERALL WHITE WITH RED AND ORANGE TRIM STRIPES

 

INTERIOR

BEIGH VINYL SEATS, SIDE PANELS AND HEADLINER, TWEED CARPET

 

SPECIFICATIONS SUBJECT TO VERIFICATION BY BUYER PRIOR TO SALE

 

 

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[carusoam]

When did it take the time off?

How well preserved is it?

that is very low hours on such a fine machine...

For comparison, my 65C had about 5k hours on it in y2k...

Have you read the logs?

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

[Jim Peace]

I have a 64c that looked like this when I bought it....count on at least 50k to bring up to speed if you have to pay for mx.

Avionics will be almost 40k of it....you need to be sure you have the SB done for the tube corrosion and the SB for where the flaps are mounted on the rear spar.,,

 

Do yourself a favor and offer 25k and not a penny more

[docjeffry]

It has been hagared for the last several years at least. Given the minor hail pings, that indicates that it has spent time on the ramp. Chris and I did look at the logs. It had many 100 hr inspections in its early days. It was flown a lot in its early days. The logs show that the engine was rebuilt in 1981. the language states to factory spec.

~J~

[docjeffry]

Jim, thank you for the price point. I was thinking the same thing. What does SB stand for?

Thanks again.

[Jim Peace]

2 minutes ago, docjeffry said:

Jim, thank you for the price point. I was thinking the same thing. What does SB stand for?

Thanks again.

SB= Service Bulletin.  There are many that really should be done.....good luck......The C when its in good shape is the best bang for the buck,...

[Jim Peace]

11 minutes ago, docjeffry said:

Jim, thank you for the price point. I was thinking the same thing. What does SB stand for?

Thanks again.

The engine controls may be all roached out too....factor that in as well as gear pucks....also have them top the tanks a few hours before you get there to look at it....that alone may save you thousands and a ton of down time........

[docjeffry]

1 minute ago, Jim Peace said:

The engine controls may be all roached out too....factor that in as well as gear pucks....also have them top the tanks a few hours before you get there to look at it....that alone may save you thousands and a ton of down time........

Jim this airplane is in my own back yard. We already looked at it. More than likely, I will be following the rule of "never buy the first plane you look at". I doubt the seller will go for the 25k and I think 25k is a fair price as you do.

 

~J~

[Jim Peace]

Just now, docjeffry said:

Jim this airplane is in my own back yard. We already looked at it. More than likely, I will be following the rule of "never buy the first plane you look at". I doubt the seller will go for the 25k and I think 25k is a fair price as you do.

 

~J~

The windows are Milked out...offer 22k and be FIRM

[Huitt3106]

I think from your last post you’re on the right track. If you want to update everything over time it’ll be much cheaper to pay for an up to date flyer initially. If you just want something to fly a couple years and sell then that would be a little different. Even at 25k you may still be in the red once you figure all the costs of updating/ repair.

Since the last overhaul was 38 years ago, you should figure in that soon (could get lucky, but likely not). Just an overhaul on top of the purchase price of $25k would put you close to $50k. Add in another $5k and you could have a nice C model right now!

It all depends on your budget of course but I’d pay out more and get something nicer.


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[Prior owner]

So many things to look at during the PPI.... things that will determine whether the plane is worth buying...at any price. 

 

[Yetti]

Start with this.   Do you want to fly, or do you want a project to work on?   As people have stated this is project.

[carusoam]

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N1924Y
 

Last known flight recorded on FA... many years ago...

Serial number reported in the Ad...  seems a bit funny... back in the day they were four digit numbers in serial order... in ‘65... they were in the 3000s....

https://flightaware.com/resources/registration/N1924Y

 

Best to get a plane that is flying often.... so many new ropes to learn...

 

But... if you have the experience of learning the ropes of old machines... this won’t be much different... accept the whole FAA part...

The FAA supplies a bunch of what you can do vs. what has to be done by a certificated mechanic...  or under his supervision...

Don’t get distracted by what might seem to be negativity...

Its kinda similar to hanging out around the airport discussing the same details...

You get to decide what is right for you... everyone here wants you to be successful... joining the group...  now, you are just better informed...

Do you want to be a flyer, a builder, or both? 

Best regards,

-a-

[DXB]

Someone just put an annual on it, so that's good, assuming it's a real annual - it would be nice to know if it was a reputable shop that knows the Mooney airframe, or some pencil whip affair.

I'm scared to ask...how many hours flown in the last 6mo? year? two years?  If it's a decent amount, I'm then I'm hopeful. If it's next to nothing, then your pocketbook should be ready for an overhaul plus tons of other expensive effort before it can serve you reliably (even before you spend a dime upgrading the panel). 

If it has hardly flown much in 2 years or more, then you have to decide if you want an expensive project or you just want the fun flying with your wife to start soon. Nothing wrong with either - just depends on your priorities.

Most severely underused planes that look like bargains when you buy them turn out to be anything but...

[gsxrpilot]

1171 hours in the last 38 years? 

[Jim Peace]

Once you get a C in perfect condition you will find it hard to stay on the ground....

[Marauder]

15 hours ago, docjeffry said:

Well, I did it. A friend of mine and i looked at a M20C. The broker (my flight instructor at KGOK) told me this was originally sold as a D with fixed gear and prop and converted back to a C with retract and constant speed prop later. It's pretty fit. I think it's a project but it appears to be a solid foundation. Obviously there are no modern avionics which I'm okay with that. there are some minor hail pings on the control surfaces. I really wish it were cleaned up so I could get a better look. This aircraft is priced at 32.5K. It needs ADS-B, and modern panel. Engine has 1170 SMOH. Total time 3814.

What is your opinion on this airplane?

My position: mechanic (life long not A&P) machinist, former harley builder, car builder.

mission: flying around in my local sandbox for 5 years, time to get out. just me and my wife. 

This may be a partnership.

 

Specs:

CRABTREE AIRCRAFT COMPANY, INC.

520 AIRPORT ROAD

GUTHRIE-EDMOND REGIONAL AIRPORT

GUTHRIE, OKLAHOMA 73044

PH. 405-282-4250 FX. 405-282-3130

 

FOR SALE

1964 MOONEY M20D/C

REGISTRATION NUMBER N1924Y

SERIAL NUMBER 219

AIRCRAFT TOTAL TIME 3814 HOURS

ENGINE TIME SINCE MAJOR OVERHAUL 1171 HOURS

PROPELLER TIME SINCE NEW 444 HOURS HARTZELL 3 BLADE

ANNUAL INSPECTION DUE NOVEMBER 2020

NO MAJOR DAMAGE HISTORY

 

AVIONICS

KING KA 134 AUDIO PANEL

KING KX175B NAVCOM WITH ILS

KING KX179B NAVCOM

3 LIGHT MARKER BEACON

KING KR86 ADF

KING KN64 DME

KING KT76A TRANSPONDER

GARMIN AREA 500 GPS

SIGTRONICS PORTABLE INTERCOM

CENTURY II B AUTOPILOT COUPLED

 

ADDITIONAL EQUIPMENT

EXHAUST GAS TEMPERATURE GAUGE

BELLY STROBE LIGHT

VERTICAL CARD COMPASS

TANIS ENGINE HEATER

 

EXTERIOR

OVERALL WHITE WITH RED AND ORANGE TRIM STRIPES

 

INTERIOR

BEIGH VINYL SEATS, SIDE PANELS AND HEADLINER, TWEED CARPET

 

SPECIFICATIONS SUBJECT TO VERIFICATION BY BUYER PRIOR TO SALE

 

 

Add

 

Pics

 

Not much to add but to re-emphasize what others have said. As a long time owner, my advice centers around whether this is the right plane for you and your family for your current and future flying needs. When I bought my Mooney in 1991, it was just my wife and baby daughter. When my son came along in 1997, the plane still fit our mission. When my kids got bigger, useful load had become a concern. Rather than selling my F, I decided to weather the storm and would rent a Piper or 182 that had the useful load I needed. That served the need of the holiday trips to grandpa & grandma's house and the occasional vacation trip. With the exception of an STEC 60-2 autopilot being added, any avionics added were to replace what got too expensive to continue to fix.

Fast forward to 2012, one kid out of the house working and the other finishing up college. The "family" trips were now relegated to day trips to the beach with the son. It was then I decided that with 21 years of ownership, the plane would fit 99% of my forthcoming retirement flying. That is when I began the heavy investments in avionics. 

So... my advice really centers around where this or any other plane you are considering fits into your life style. If you think you would be moving onto something to bigger or faster, you may be sinking a lot of money into a plane that you won't get back out. Choose wisely...

[MIm20c]

11 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

1171 hours in the last 38 years? 

There are a lot of 252’s, Encore, bravo, etc aircraft I’ve looked at in the past few years that had less than 100 hrs in the past decade.  Also many 30 year old aircraft with the original engine hanging off the front. Not uncommon for the majority of the fleet from what I’ve seen. 

[gsxrpilot]

55 minutes ago, MIm20c said:

There are a lot of 252’s, Encore, bravo, etc aircraft I’ve looked at in the past few years that had less than 100 hrs in the past decade.  Also many 30 year old aircraft with the original engine hanging off the front. Not uncommon for the majority of the fleet from what I’ve seen. 

True, but buyer beware... they all most likely need an engine overhaul. 

[steingar]

Yuk.  Lots of red flags on this one.  I'd pay 32K for an M20C with crap avionics that's been regularly flown.  I wouldn't even approach that for a hangar queen.  Find another.  Mooney made more C's than all the other makes combined.

Edited December 16, 2019 by steingar

[Old Chub]

I can get you in touch with the previous owner if your would like to talk to him.

Send PM if interested.

 

[docjeffry]

15 hours ago, DXB said:

Someone just put an annual on it, so that's good, assuming it's a real annual - it would be nice to know if it was a reputable shop that knows the Mooney airframe, or some pencil whip affair.

I'm scared to ask...how many hours flown in the last 6mo? year? two years?  If it's a decent amount, I'm then I'm hopeful. If it's next to nothing, then your pocketbook should be ready for an overhaul plus tons of other expensive effort before it can serve you reliably (even before you spend a dime upgrading the panel). 

If it has hardly flown much in 2 years or more, then you have to decide if you want an expensive project or you just want the fun flying with your wife to start soon. Nothing wrong with either - just depends on your priorities.

Most severely underused planes that look like bargains when you buy them turn out to be anything but...

It appears this plane has been flown 50/hours or less for the past 20 years if I remember correctly.

~J~

[docjeffry]

3 hours ago, Marauder said:

Not much to add but to re-emphasize what others have said. As a long time owner, my advice centers around whether this is the right plane for you and your family for your current and future flying needs. When I bought my Mooney in 1991, it was just my wife and baby daughter. When my son came along in 1997, the plane still fit our mission. When my kids got bigger, useful load had become a concern. Rather than selling my F, I decided to weather the storm and would rent a Piper or 182 that had the useful load I needed. That served the need of the holiday trips to grandpa & grandma's house and the occasional vacation trip. With the exception of an STEC 60-2 autopilot being added, any avionics added were to replace what got too expensive to continue to fix.

Fast forward to 2012, one kid out of the house working and the other finishing up college. The "family" trips were now relegated to day trips to the beach with the son. It was then I decided that with 21 years of ownership, the plane would fit 99% of my forthcoming retirement flying. That is when I began the heavy investments in avionics. 

So... my advice really centers around where this or any other plane you are considering fits into your life style. If you think you would be moving onto something to bigger or faster, you may be sinking a lot of money into a plane that you won't get back out. Choose wisely...

I'm pretty sure a Mooney M20C will fit my needs fo a long time to come. It's just me and my wife.

 

Thanks

[MIm20c]

2 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

True, but buyer beware... they all most likely need an engine overhaul. 

I’m not disagreeing. However, I feel a normal range for owning/maintaining/actively flying a Mooney is 15-25k per year. If someone is looking to buy in that range they must be willing to accept compromises in almost all areas. 

[Marauder]

16 minutes ago, docjeffry said:

I'm pretty sure a Mooney M20C will fit my needs fo a long time to come. It's just me and my wife.

 

Thanks

SO! What's holding you up? BUY! BUY! BUY! And keep us up on your exploits in getting the C back into flying mode.