Steering play?

[Ragsf15e]

On 11/20/2022 at 3:21 PM, M20Doc said:

I’ve never seen a published limit on wear/play in the nose gear steering system.  That said you should try to remove as much as is practical, you’ll never remove it all due to the many joints in the system.

There are a number of service bulletins and service instructions affecting the nose gear, they are on the Mooney website under technical publications.  SB M20-169 and SI M20-109 are two to look at.

So reading m20-169, it shows this bolt and nylon insert nut (circled below).The parts manual seems to show a different bolt and nut with cotter pin.  Mine looks just like tge sb, but was installed in 2003.

Which one is right?

 

[N201MKTurbo]

3 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

So reading m20-169, it shows this bolt and nylon insert nut (circled below).The parts manual seems to show a different bolt and nut with cotter pin.  Mine looks just like tge sb, but was installed in 2003.

Which one is right?

 

Well, how about that….

I would use thin washers so there are more threads showing.

[Ragsf15e]

12 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Well, how about that….

I would use thin washers so there are more threads showing.

Yeah, I think there’s about 4 different published legit ways to put this together.  That SB is from 1968 though and my parts catalog is newer.  It shows 2 different ways depending on year/type.  

I talked to the parts people at Lasar since the steering horn came from there in 2003.  They are sending me all new hardware, bushing, etc.  They are sending a bolt, castle nut, cotter pin to go there, so I think it will be what you guys were talking about.

 

[Ragsf15e]

On 11/24/2022 at 2:17 PM, N201MKTurbo said:

Well, how about that….

I would use thin washers so there are more threads showing.

Got new parts from Lasar today.  Steering horn and gear truss came from them, so I called and they said they knew what to send…

There are only 1/4” of threads on the whole bolt and the nut is close to that thick.  No way you get two threads past.  And no cotter pin still…

I think there are many variations of nose gear assembly out there.

[Raymond J1]

For me, I found that replacing the bolt did not solve the problem of the clearance. I think that the SB secures the reliability of the steering control because it is very stressed in shear during the shimmy. On the question of the excessive clearance, it is rather on the side of the ball joint mounted in the folded and welded sheet metal "U" that we must look at. The new part provided by Lasar does not concern, for example, the case of a 67 F (different axis offset). In my case, the issue of the wheel shimmy was settled with the wedge under the donuts and the reconditioning of the fork linear damper. Also the replacement of the ball joint mentioned just before. And of course, I changed the bolt to comply with the SB, but the clearance at the place of the bolt is the same as with the old one.

Edited December 5, 2022 by Raymond J1

[Ragsf15e]

On 11/24/2022 at 2:17 PM, N201MKTurbo said:

Well, how about that….

I would use thin washers so there are more threads showing.

Well crap.  It’s not the bolt or washer because I have them on hand.  It’s the very short and unobtainable rod end (blue circle).

Anyone have a lead on where to find them?  I left a message at lasar but website says out… part 914012-013 rod end.

[N201MKTurbo]

39 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

Well crap.  It’s not the bolt or washer because I have them on hand.  It’s the very short and unobtainable rod end (blue circle).

Anyone have a lead on where to find them?  I left a message at lasar but website says out… part 914012-013 rod end.

That little guy seems to be made by cutting down a standard rod end. If you can find what part it is made from, and have access to some machine tools, shouldn’t be hard to make one.

Or order one from Mooney and wait for them to make one.

[N201MKTurbo]

Or you can get the LASAR steering horn and make it better.

[Ragsf15e]

35 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Or you can get the LASAR steering horn and make it better.

It is the Lasar truss, do they have a separate steering horn STC as well?

I agree it could be made pretty easily, and more cost effective too… $145 on Lasar website.  I’d pay it for a new one though because we’ve got her all opened up for annual.

[PT20J]

1 hour ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Or you can get the LASAR steering horn and make it better.

If you are thinking of this one, it's no longer available. Corrine told me before she left that they used to have these made by a local machinist in Lakeport and he retired. They decided not to look for another machinist because these weren't a big seller -- most people opted for the rebuilt factory horns because they were (wait for it) ... cheaper.

[PT20J]

49 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

It is the Lasar truss, do they have a separate steering horn STC as well?

I agree it could be made pretty easily, and more cost effective too… $145 on Lasar website.  I’d pay it for a new one though because we’ve got her all opened up for annual.

I would definitely call LASAR. I exchanged emails with Brett Stokes (LASAR owner) inquiring about whether they still were reconditioning landing gear trusses and rebuilding landing gear actuators. He replied: "As far as nose gear truss landing gear actuator rebuilds go, the answer is 100% yes!"

He also said that they were investing heavily in the parts side of the business and plan to remain the largest parts supplier for the Mooney fleet.

Skip

[Ragsf15e]

20 hours ago, PT20J said:

I would definitely call LASAR. I exchanged emails with Brett Stokes (LASAR owner) inquiring about whether they still were reconditioning landing gear trusses and rebuilding landing gear actuators. He replied: "As far as nose gear truss landing gear actuator rebuilds go, the answer is 100% yes!"

He also said that they were investing heavily in the parts side of the business and plan to remain the largest parts supplier for the Mooney fleet.

Skip

Lasar didn’t have the rod end in stock but they ordered one from mooney.  They called first and were told one month.

[jetdriven]

23 hours ago, PT20J said:

I would definitely call LASAR. I exchanged emails with Brett Stokes (LASAR owner) inquiring about whether they still were reconditioning landing gear trusses and rebuilding landing gear actuators. He replied: "As far as nose gear truss landing gear actuator rebuilds go, the answer is 100% yes!"

He also said that they were investing heavily in the parts side of the business and plan to remain the largest parts supplier for the Mooney fleet.

Skip

the issue right now is no cores, and if you want to send yours in and wait 12 weeks, you can get it redone. But 12 weeks is a long time.

[carusoam]

If you haven’t got an answer yet…

Lasar’s web site hasn’t caught up to their actual inventory lately…

So… Speak with Dan directly, he is still with them…

Don’t trust their internet… 

Best regards,

-a-

[Ragsf15e]

It was definitely the rod end. We took it out in the hole is slightly elongated. Laser ordered a new one for us from Mooney, but it’s going to take two months. For now, my I was able to tighten it up with some spacers, and it’s much better than it was before.

[PT20J]

On 1/25/2023 at 7:11 PM, jetdriven said:

the issue right now is no cores, and if you want to send yours in and wait 12 weeks, you can get it redone. But 12 weeks is a long time.

Shouldn't there be a lot of cores around from all the wrecks?

[Guest]

12 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

It was definitely the rod end. We took it out in the hole is slightly elongated. Laser ordered a new one for us from Mooney, but it’s going to take two months. For now, my I was able to tighten it up with some spacers, and it’s much better than it was before.

Have you got some measurements on it?  The see if we can find a replacement 

[Ragsf15e]

43 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

Have you got some measurements on it?  The see if we can find a replacement 

I appreciate the offer! My IA’s fix by adding some spacers and tightening it up seems pretty solid for now and I’ve got one ordered.  Mostly, no, I didn’t take careful measurements.  I will when I get the new one and I’ll post them.

That rod end isn’t easy to get in and out… the nose gear has to be retracted to get at it.

[N201MKTurbo]

50 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

I appreciate the offer! My IA’s fix by adding some spacers and tightening it up seems pretty solid for now and I’ve got one ordered.  Mostly, no, I didn’t take careful measurements.  I will when I get the new one and I’ll post them.

That rod end isn’t easy to get in and out… the nose gear has to be retracted to get at it.

If you remove the SS sheetmetal piece at the bottom of the firewall it makes working on it much easier.

[Ragsf15e]

4 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

If you remove the SS sheetmetal piece at the bottom of the firewall it makes working on it much easier.

It’s the rod end attached to the steering horn above the nose gear.  I’m trying to picture what you’re saying, but I think it’s well forward of the firewall?  With the gear up and gear doors disconnected, it’s not bad as it rotates down towards the ground where you can get at it.

[N201MKTurbo]

7 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

It’s the rod end attached to the steering horn above the nose gear.  I’m trying to picture what you’re saying, but I think it’s well forward of the firewall?  With the gear up and gear doors disconnected, it’s not bad as it rotates down towards the ground where you can get at it.

There is a sheet metal piece that forms the forward end of the wheel well. It is held on to the firewall with sheet metal screws. It forms the bottom center section of the firewall. If you remove it, you can work on the steering horn easily. Sometimes the screws are hard to get to and sometimes not.

See the part with  the bulge just above the landing gear.

 

[Ragsf15e]

3 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

There is a sheet metal piece that forms the forward end of the wheel well. It is held on to the firewall with sheet metal screws. It forms the bottom center section of the firewall. If you remove it, you can work on the steering horn easily. Sometimes the screws are hard to get to and sometimes not.

See the part with  the bulge just above the landing gear.

 

Ahhh, that helped.  I didn’t check those screws but I will now.  Would be nice to have a better way in!

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

Ahhh, that helped.  I didn’t check those screws but I will now.  Would be nice to have a better way in!

From the IPC 

[Denis Mexted]

On 11/21/2022 at 11:19 PM, cliffy said:

IIRC

Hello guys. New to Mooney so forgive the questions. (apart from 100 hours 35 years ago)

But I'm looking to pull the gear out of a '77 M20F. Third last one off the line before the J. 

To clarify the above, the LASAR nose gear steering horn is no longer available, but in any case it's been superseded by rebuilding the nose gear truss? Or are they two separate points of wear?

Why is the nose gear truss rebuilt? Was it a weak point in the design. If so particular to any models? 

Any other advise in doing a complete gear overhaul?

Cheers, Denis.

[carusoam]

24 minutes ago, Denis Mexted said:

Hello guys. New to Mooney so forgive the questions. (apart from 100 hours 35 years ago)

But I'm looking to pull the gear out of a '77 M20F. Third last one off the line before the J. 

To clarify the above, the LASAR nose gear steering horn is no longer available, but in any case it's been superseded by rebuilding the nose gear truss? Or are they two separate points of wear?

Why is the nose gear truss rebuilt? Was it a weak point in the design. If so particular to any models? 

Any other advise in doing a complete gear overhaul?

Cheers, Denis.

Hey Denis!

Nose gear rebuilds are a common practice…

done every 40 - 50 years or so…

Sometimes they are related to…

• damage from over steering during towing…
• design updates to include adjustable stops, and a pointer…
• wear issues…

Lasar had a good business with the rebuilds… contact them to see if they will restart after their recent move.

Best regards,

-a