Gravel runway in an M20K?

[airbuspilot2436]

I am planning my first transatlantic crossing with my CFI from Geneva, Switzerland (homebase) to New York. 

 

My instructor really recommends visiting Kulusuk (BGKK) in Greenland. The only downside is that it is a Gravel runway. 

Can my M20K handle it? Would you guys recommend it? 

 

Thanks!

 

-Thomas

[BorealOne]

3,934 of gravel. Ez-peasy. Just remember basic soft-field technique. Keep your speed up on the gravel - slow speeds entrain gravel - and ensure that your start-up is on a pad to avoid prop damage. 

[gsxrpilot]

In those very cold climates, a gravel runway is preferable to a concrete runway. The concrete runways get very rough because of freezing and thawing, but the gravel runways are just regraded and smooth as butter...

I flew my Mooney to Churchill Manitoba and was trying to avoid gravel runways. On the trip back I took off / landed at three different gravel strips. They were MUCH smoother, well packed and probably less FOD than the hard surface runways. 

Start the engine sitting on the concrete pad, then start moving and just keep moving if possible. It picks up less FOD into the prop that way. But take off's and landings on a well maintained gravel strip are really smooth.

[aviatoreb]

2 hours ago, airbuspilot2436 said:

I am planning my first transatlantic crossing with my CFI from Geneva, Switzerland (homebase) to New York. 

 

My instructor really recommends visiting Kulusuk (BGKK) in Greenland. The only downside is that it is a Gravel runway. 

Can my M20K handle it? Would you guys recommend it? 

 

Thanks!

 

-Thomas

Ah!  Another Swiss guy coming to NY in a Mooney!  Check out terriblecharlie who lives in Zurich and flew over in July in his Bravo.  In fact he left some stuff in my hangar for a week.  Where you going in NY?

As for gravel - what gsxrpilot said.... in frigid climates concrete tends to heave.  I think your Mooney can do it - remember good soft field technique.

[thinwing]

Should. E a great flight..I’m jealous 

[carusoam]

Let’s go with the other Charlie... the awful one... @Awful_Charlie...

Come on over!

Best regards,

-a-

[airbuspilot2436]

9 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

Ah!  Another Swiss guy coming to NY in a Mooney!  Check out terriblecharlie who lives in Zurich and flew over in July in his Bravo.  In fact he left some stuff in my hangar for a week.  Where you going in NY?

As for gravel - what gsxrpilot said.... in frigid climates concrete tends to heave.  I think your Mooney can do it - remember good soft field technique.

Haha that's great! Ill check him out, and I'm going to FRG (Farmingdale). 

[kortopates]

Gravel runways in good condition aren't going to be problem as stated above. I've used gravel runways in Alaska as well as dirt in Baja mexico every year without ever damaging my prop. But its good pilot technique that prevents prop damage. To prevent damage keep the yoke all the way back while taxing and on the takeoff run only add power in slowly as you build up speed on the takeoff run; specifically avoid jamming in the throttle before your moving down the runway to prevent the prop from sucking in FOD. And if you don't have a FOD free runup pad to use, dispense with the traditional runup in place and instead just do a basic mag check as your building speed in the initial takeoff run, preferably by the first 1/4 of the runway and well before the halfway point, by isolating the mags just to make sure you aren't taking off with a dead mag or major roughness; you should still have more than the second half of the runway to abort. Two  pilots up front makes this a lot easier to accomplish.

[aviatoreb]

2 hours ago, airbuspilot2436 said:

Haha that's great! Ill check him out, and I'm going to FRG (Farmingdale). 

Ah - well not that close - KFRG is 246nm SE...but nonetheless you are very welcome stop by, and become the second Swiss Mooney to stop by this year!

But yeah - do say hi to our friend in Zurich.  I am sure he has some good intel for you.

 

[Gatlin Gun]

10 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

In those very cold climates, a gravel runway is preferable to a concrete runway. The concrete runways get very rough because of freezing and thawing, but the gravel runways are just regraded and smooth as butter...

I would have NEVER guessed this...and it seems to me unanimous.  Might have to try it myself!!  Thanks for asking the question...

[Awful_Charlie]

You called

I've only done to one return crossing, so far from an expert! (always reminded: Ex is a has been, spurt is a small drip under pressure!) Flumag has doen the trips several times, and it may well be worth giving him a nudge - he was generous enough with his time to talk me through a number of items on the phone.

As I was trying to meet a deadline, and to a degree control costs, I'd heard enough about Greenland to avoid all but the essential stops there, and hence missed Kulusuk, and just used Narsarsuaq both eastbound and westbound. From what I hear though, Kulusuk is a lovely destination and *shouldn't* be a problem. Do beware of Narsarsuaq though - they totally lied to me about the last fuel uplift (telling me they had loaded and charging me for 200 litres, but delivering something nearer 120) and I subsequently raised an MOR on them - that 80 litres was fortunately "only" a substantial part of my reserve, but if I had ended up going for a swim I expect their paperwork woild have all been in order.

Some things to consider to get you started: Routes (and the corresonding HF requirement), max acceptable headwinds for each planned leg, PNR, if fuel comes in bowser of by the whole barrel only, if you will need a barrel pump, airport opening days/hours (easier when westbound), survival equipment.

I had an absolutely fantastic experience and would recommend it without doubt. The trip does have its risks though, and only you can make the asessment as to how acceptable those risks are to you

[carusoam]

Calling @flumag....

Invitation to join the cross-Atlantic discussion...

Best regards,

-a-

[flumag]

Thanks for the "ping" carusoam. :-)

Kulusuk is fine for a Mooney. We had some posts about the airport already:

 

The condition is good and I did it with different props. I would also recommend Kulusuk. It's the most authentic and impressive airport on the usual ferry route. A proper soft field landing and take off should make it for you. Kulusuk also has  the necessary IFR approaches since weather can be tricky in Greenland and alternates ar unusual far away.  Depending on endurance, cruising altitude , availability of HF of your airplane and winds the route will vary. This should be considered for your ferry planing. Make sure your insurance is covering the flight

I was flying 6 weeks ago last in Greenland (but not Kulusuk this time). Here my routing and some pictures from the BGBW departure.

Hendrik

 

[nickmatic]

I stoped at Kulusuk in my Encore on the way to Europe a couple years back. Landing was easy and staff was super nice as I recall. Read about it here: www.n97nm.com